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Mark 16:9

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Hervey, Apr 1, 2002.

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  1. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Subject: Mark 16:9


    Poor punctuation of Mark 16:9

    Here is what the KJV says - "Now when Jesus was risen early the first day
    of
    the week, he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out of whom he cast seven
    devil spirits"

    Here is the proper punctuation of Mark 16:9 - "Now when Jesus was risen , early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene, out
    of
    whom he cast seven devil spirits"

    Anyone notice where I changed the comma ? From after the word week in the
    KJV , and put it after the word risen, in the proper punctuation.

    What makes what I did "proper" ?

    If Mark 16:9 is left as it is, it gives the appearance that he rose early
    the first day of the week. But he didn't ! Early the first day of the
    week would be "after" sunrise. But he was already risen "before"
    sunrise.
    In fact I can show you , but not in this post, where he rose sometime
    between 6 and 9 pm Saturday , just before the fullness of sunset.

    To prove that the punctuation is incorrect in the KJV, we only need to
    read
    a few verses of scripture.

    First, lets look earlier in this chapter in Mark 16 , and in verse 2 it
    states - "And very early in the morning the first day of the week, they
    came unto the sepulchre at the rising of the sun". And in verses 3 & 4
    they
    "saw" that the stone was "already" rolled away, and it was a "great" stone
    in size.

    Sunrise is the - "begining" of the early part of the "first day" of the
    week. And he was already risen. They did not come to the sepulchre
    after
    sunrise, but at the rising of the sun. In otherwords, at the very moment
    of the rising of the sun. Which means , it had not risen as of yet, but was
    rising at that moment. The first day of the week does not start until the
    sun is fully risen .
    Lets look at another verse in Luke 24:1 - "Now upon the first day of the
    week, very early in the morning, they came unto the sepulchre ----- verse
    two - And they found the stone rolled away from the sepulchre"

    All this verse tells you , is that it was very early in the morning, they
    came unto the sepulchre and they found the stone rolled away.

    Now lets look at another verse in John 20:1 - "The first day of the week
    cometh Mary Magdalene early , when it was yet dark , unto the sepulchre,
    and
    seeth the stone taken away from the sepulchre"

    Now there seems to be a contradiction, but there is none. It is called an
    apparent contradiction. Which means that there is no contradiction, but
    there looks like one. Mark says at the rising of the sun, and Luke says
    early in the morning, and John says it was yet dark. How can it be dark,
    and "the rising of the sun" at the same time ? That is because on is a
    literal and the other is a figurative statement. It being dark is the
    literal, and the words "the rising of the sun" is figurative. Let me
    explain --- Very early in the morning it is dark. The phrase "the rising
    of the sun" means that it is what is called the "dawn" of a new day, when
    it
    is still dark, but there are glimpses that the dawning of the day is about
    to begin, which is called "the rising of the sun". It was dark outside,
    but you could see, that any moment , the rising of the sun , was about to
    take place, as the darkness was about to break. Understand ? <g>

    Now lets look at Matthew 28:1 to show you what I mean -- "In the end of
    the
    sabbath, as it "began to dawn" toward the first day of the week, came Mary
    Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre"

    Right here in this verse shows that the first day of the week had not
    arrived yet, because it only "began to dawn" - "toward" --- the first day
    of the week, and the sun was not fully up yet, and it was still dark, but
    the dawn began to break, "when" these two Mary's came and found that the
    stone "had" already been rolled away !

    Now if you look once again at Mark 16:9 as written in the KJV and look at
    the improper punctuation. You will find out why the punctuation is
    improper
    from the information given in this post , which looked at all the records
    pertaining to this event.

    Here is Mark 16:9 as written in the KJV - "Now when Jesus was risen early
    the first day of the week, "

    No, no , no, Jesus was "not" risen the first day of the week ! He was
    "already" risen "before" the break of dawn ! It was still dark out, and
    the first day of the week was not here yet, because the sun had not risen as
    of yet.

    The proper punctuation is as follows - "Now when Jesus was risen , early
    the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene out of whom
    he had cast out seven devils"

    He was risen "before" the first day of the week, but "on" the first day of
    the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene and the other Mary. < That
    is
    what this verse is saying !

    Now you ask, why is this so important. The reason it is so important, is
    because mainstream christianity teaches, that he rose on the first day of
    the week, and "they" just love to use Mark 16:9 for their answer ! And
    that is just not true ! It is an untruth ! It is a lie !

    Mainstream christianity is celebrating "this day" - Sunday, as "the day"
    in
    which the Lord Jesus Christ was raised from the dead. It is a lie, and
    untruth, deceit !

    He rose from sometime between 6 and 9 Saturday night "before" the sun had
    fully set. That is because he was buried "before" sundown on Wednesday ,
    sometime between 6 and 9 before the sun had fully set.

    He was in the earth for three days and three nights and then sometime
    between 6 and 9 just before the fullness of the sunset, on Saturday - "He
    was Raised by God, from the dead" ! ! Romans 10:9.


    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
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  2. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    Hervey,

    Based on scripture and Jewish tradition, a day begins at sunset, not sunrise. The first day of the week would have begun at sunset on the seventh day of the week. So far the only thing you've proven is that Jesus arose before the sun came up on 'Sunday' (the first day of the week) morning. If we ASSUME sunset at 9:00 pm and sunrise occurs at 5:00 am we still have 8 hours in which Jesus could have risen on Sunday and not contradict the statement that he rose the first day of the week.
     
  3. ChristianPilot

    ChristianPilot If God is your co-pilot, switch seats!

    407
    +10
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    Maybe it's just because I love to nitpick, but there shouldn't be a space before your first comma (after "Now when Jesus was risen").
     
  4. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Willis:

    Who made the statement that he rose on the first day of the week ? Oh - you say that this statement is not in the Word of God, Willis ? No surprise ! Man made statements are not to be trusted . Only the Word of God can be trusted ! When he "was" (past tense) risen, early the first day of the week he appeared first to Mary Magdalene"

    They took his body down before sunset (Jewish tradition which can be found biblically - Joshua 10:26 & 27)

    The Jews did not call after sunset Saturday - the first day--- they called it the first evening (night). Day did not start until sunrise ! This is why , when you read in Genesis 1:4 & 5 - God divided the light from the darkness, and the day and night and called the evening and the morning the first day .

    Now, I am sure there are going to be those who think they see a contradiction in what I just said. But there is no contradiction. The evening and the morning are the first day as a whole (24hours). But the "day " does not start until sunrise. A full first day would be night and day combined. Before sunrise (evening)(night) the body of Jesus was not found in the tomb. That is because he was risen before sunset Saturday . Which was the end of the three days and three nights.

    1.) Jesus dies on Wed. and is taken down from the cross and put into a tomb before sunset. = Night #1 from sunset until sunrise

    2.) Jesus still in the tomb on thursday - Day #1 - until sunset

    3.) Jesus still in the tomb from sunset thursday until sunrise friday - Night #2

    4.) Jesus still in the tomb from sunrise friday until sunset - Day #2

    5.) Jesus still in the tomb from sunset until sunrise - Night #3

    6.) Jesus still in the tomb from sunrise until just before sunset Saturday - Day #3

    7.) Jesus rises just before sunset on Saturday - being in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  5. Optimus_P

    Optimus_P Super Umpa Lumpa

    585
    +1
    your comma placement throws off the sentence when you read it. teh camma in this instance, seems to seperate just like a semicolan to distinct thoughts but they flow together.
     
  6. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    When I was risen from bed , on the first day of the week, the first person I saw was my wife.

    But when did I rise, and when during the day did I see my wife ?

    Maybe I work nights, and I sleep prior to my night shift, which could be well before midnight, of the first day of the week. I could then get done work at midnight, then come home and the first person I see on the first day of the week was my wife.

    You must read what is written within the Word, and leave nothing to chance.

    God seeketh those who will worship him in spirit and in truth ! John4:23 :)


    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  7. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    Hervey, I'm trying to follow what you are saying but you'll need to slow down, take a deep breath, and proceed point by point.

    Evening and morning were the first day (Gen. 1:5). First day begins in the evening.

    Jesus was resurrected before sunrise the first day of the week.

    He could have been resurrected anytime between sun down and sun up and it still would have been the first day of the week.

    What is the source of information you are using to state the Jews called evening 'the first evening' and morning 'the first day'? Not that this is terribly important since it is clear the day comprises more or less a twenty four hour period that begins at sunset and ends at sunset, but I suspect that you are about to present more of your thoughts and this day thing beginning at sun up is going to be pivitol.
     
  8. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Hi Willis:

    I will do my best to slow down for you. ;) But whenever you feel compelled to rethink the things I have alread posted. Just go back and re-read them so that I do not have to type everything twice.

    The "word" Day, has two understandings within the Word of God. #1 - The whole day - from sunset until sunset (24 hours). #2 - Sunrise until sunset

    Within the Word you will read such statements as -- the last day, or the 10th day of the month. These are whole days - 24 hours - sunset until sunset. A day starts at sunset and ends at sunset. This is why in Genesis it states - "and the evening and the moring were the first day". The "evening", is the beginning of the whole day, and the "morning" is the beginning of the day light time , which is from sunrise until sunset.

    Jesus was put in the tomb just before the fulness of the setting of the sun - sunset. Three days and three nights later, he was resurrected from the dead, which would be just before the fulness of the sun setting - sunset -- three days latter. He was resurrected just before the first day of the week, and he was not found in the tomb when it was still dark out, and the tomb was empty.

    You have been expressing the idea, that he could have been resurrected sometime between sunset and sunrise. But this can not be true, because of when he was put into the tomb (sepulchre).

    The phrase - "the first day of the week" starts at sunset,but the "day light time" starts at sunrise, and this is when the two Mary's came to the tomb, while it was still dark out. But the record in Mark 16:2 tells us that it was just becoming morning "at" the rising of the sun ( not morning yet, but at that point - there is a time of expression here). The phrase - "very early in the moring" is a figure of speech. It means before the sun is risen, but light is breaking the darkness of the night.

    The angels said to the two Mary's - "he is risen". He is risen before the first day(#2) of the week. The first day does not start until the sun is fully risen.

    Early the first day of the week ( Mark 16:9 ) Jesus appeared first to Mary Magdalene. Notice the use of word "early" once again. First in verse 2 , then again in verse 9. This second usage is "after" the sun had fully risen, and the first usage was before the sun had fully risen.

    By Jewish tradition, a Jew will not tell you that the first day of the week is during the night time hours. He will tell you that the first day of the week starts at sunrise. That is why you see this phrase "the first day of the week" used in both verse 2 and in verse 9. The first(verse 2) is a figure of speech, and the second(verse 9) is the literal.

    If you say, that Jesus rose during the night time hours, and claim that he rose the first day of the week, then you would not be correct in your understanding of the way in which the usage of words are used within the Word of God, which is according to Jewish tradition, when it comes to these passages.

    Read this slowly :) :sorry:

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  9. Nick_Loves_Abba

    Nick_Loves_Abba Bulls On Parade

    +45
    Christian
    ***Sits and waits, then raises hand***

    Hervey, whats the point of all this?
     
  10. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Nick:

    Truth :idea:

    L I C - Hervey
     
  11. Nick_Loves_Abba

    Nick_Loves_Abba Bulls On Parade

    +45
    Christian
    Where is the false-icity at?
     
  12. ZiSunka

    ZiSunka It means 'yellow dog'

    +276
    Christian
    Jesus still rose from the dead, right? Does it matter much if he resurrected before midnight or after?
     
  13. Nick_Loves_Abba

    Nick_Loves_Abba Bulls On Parade

    +45
    Christian
    Amen.
     
  14. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    I can understand the two concepts, #1 day as in 24 hours and #2 day as only the time the sun shines. I've looked at the verses again and all I see indicated is that Jesus was resurrected before the women arrived at the tomb, close to sunrise. I see nothing in the verses to indicate a specific time he rose, from the context it could have been 10 hours before the women arrived, or 10 minutes.
     
  15. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Hi Willis:

    When was he taken down from the cross (tree) ?

    When was he put into the tomb ?

    Add three days and three nights to this , and what do you come up with ?

    The concept of what day it was is very important, but more important was when they buried him in the tomb.

    Luke 23:52 - 54 - "sabbath day drew on" < Not sunset yet !

    Luke 24:7 - "rise the third day " < #1 or #2 ?

    Love IN Christ - Hervey
     
  16. Nick_Loves_Abba

    Nick_Loves_Abba Bulls On Parade

    +45
    Christian
    I remember lookin on a thread about this. I think it has something to do with a Jewish calandar or something.
     
  17. Willis Deal

    Willis Deal Member

    328
    +0
    What hervey is trying to do is prove that there is no easter bunny, he's just taking the long way around. :)
     
  18. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    "The Jews did not call after sunset Saturday - the first day--- they called it the first evening (night). Day did not start until sunrise ! "

    hervy..I really think you're wrong here. There isn't a point to it is there?
     
  19. Hervey

    Hervey Member

    481
    +0
    Louis:

    Of course there is a point being made here. Just go back and re-read what I have said. Also read my thread "Even". This thread and that thread go together. :) :hug:

    L I C - Hervey
     
  20. LouisBooth

    LouisBooth Well-Known Member

    +62
    Christian
    Married
    US-Libertarian
    okay, I did and I still don't see the point. I think lamb's stated it rather well.....
     
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