Mark 11:23 What does the sea represent?

Scottmcc1

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Does anyone have an understanding of what the sea in Mark 11:23 might stand for?

Mark 11:23 NASB

"Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him.
 

Truthfrees

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Does anyone have an understanding of what the sea in Mark 11:23 might stand for?

Mark 11:23 NASB

"Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him.

If "mountains" are obstacles, I'd say "sea" would be symbolic of burying or removing obstacles, so that they no longer exist.

Pharaoh and his army was a huge life-threatening obstacle to the Israelites, and they were thrown into the sea.

"But Moses answered, “Don’t be afraid! Stand still and you will see the Lord save you today. You will never see these Egyptians again after today. 14 You only need to remain ·calm [or still]; the Lord will fight for you [15:3].” " - Exodus 14:13-14

"Then Moses and the ·Israelites [ sons/ children of Israel] sang this song to the Lord: “I will sing to the Lord, because he ·is worthy of great honor [is highly exalted; has triumphed gloriously]. He has ·thrown the horse and its rider into the sea." - Exodus 15:1, 4, 21

The only other "thrown into the sea" I can find are these 2, which also means to be removed, out of the way, no longer exist:

"If someone causes one of these little children who believes in me to ·sin [lose faith; stumble], it would be better for that person to have a ·large stone [large millstone; millstone of a donkey] tied around the neck and be ·drowned [ thrown] in the [ depths of the] sea." - Matthew 18:6, Mark 9:42, Luke 17:2

"You will have ·mercy [compassion] on us again; you will conquer our sins. You will ·throw away [hurl; cast] all our sins into the ·deepest part [depths] of the sea." - Micah 7:19

The fact that it's flowing water, (even oceans flow), would be symbolic of the fact that they'll be taken far away, totally removed, never to be seen again, just like YHWH promised would happen to the Egyptians trying to kill the Israelites.

:wave:
 
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hhodgson

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Does anyone have an understanding of what the sea in Mark 11:23 might stand for?

Mark 11:23 NASB

"Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him.

I think Truthfrees nailed it in his below quote...

If "mountains" are obstacles, I'd say "sea" would be symbolic of burying or removing obstacles, so that they no longer exist. (End Quote)

This passage in Micah is symbolically similar. Our sins no longer exist.
Micah 7:19
He will turn again, he will have compassion on us; he will subdue our iniquities; and you will cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.
 
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victoryword

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Personally I have always taken the seas and the mountains as literal. Have always thought of them as Jesus saying that if a literal mountain is in your way, the authority I have given you in faith can move it and cast it into the sea. Therefore, if faith (in God of course) has this much power that it can move literal mountains and place them in literal seas, then faith is also able to deal with any other obstacle that stand in your way.
 
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Truthfrees

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Personally I have always taken the seas and the mountains as literal. Have always thought of them as Jesus saying that if a literal mountain is in your way, the authority I have given you in faith can move it and cast it into the sea. Therefore, if faith (in God of course) has this much power that it can move literal mountains and place them in literal seas, then faith is also able to deal with any other obstacle that stand in your way.

Good point.

I like how YHWH's words are multi-faceted and multi-layered in regards to application.

IOW, His words can be used literally, allegorically, as well as having multiple past, present, and future applications of the same living eternal word.

:wave:
 
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Bob Carabbio

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Does anyone have an understanding of what the sea in Mark 11:23 might stand for?

It represents nothing.

The entire passage is simply a way to give the apostles some concept of the MAGNITUDE of the power that was available FROM GOD, when his WORD to them was TRUSTED absolutely - i.e. when they had "FAITH" in Him.

Jesus offed a fig tree, and the Apostles were AMAZED. Jesus essentially says "that's NOTHING compared to the true extent of the power that God has, and which is potentially delegated to YOU - if your FAITH is in What HE's communicated to you".

It's the Fig tree itself that is more significant typologically.

The tree LOOKED as though it had fruit - but had none. The story probably ties in with Luke 13:

6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.
 
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AbbaLove

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The entire passage is simply a way to give the apostles some concept of the MAGNITUDE of the power that was available FROM GOD, when his WORD to them was TRUSTED absolutely - i.e. when they had "FAITH" in Him.
:thumbsup:
One would think that WOF Congregations (when compared to other church denominations) would interpret Mark 11:23 as being more literal than allegorical? Wouldn't you think?

Mark 11:23-24 NKJV
23 For assuredly, I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, ‘Be removed and be cast into the sea,’ and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that those things he says will be done, he will have whatever he says.
24 Therefore I say to you, whatever things you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you will have them.

If Mark 11:23 is allegorical (as some WOF rationalize) then what of verse 24? Shouldn't WOF churches be especially known for the regular evidence of the supernatural Gift of FAITH (1 Cor 12:9). It would seem that this special FAITH, that's one of the nine supernatural Gifts of the Holy Spirit, would be manifested on a regular basis in WOF affiliated churches.

If a substantial representation of WOF Pastors believe verse 23 is allegorical then how does that distinguish these WOF Churches from another Spirit-filled Church such as AOG or COG? Are the majority of Spirit-filled Believers that have the supernatural wonder-working special Gift of Faith found primarily in congregations that refer to themselves as a WOF Church?

1 Corinthians 12:8-11 NKJV
8 for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit, to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
10 to another the working of miracles, to another prophecy, to another discerning of spirits, to another different kinds of tongues, to another the interpretation of tongues.
11 But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

 
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Truthfrees

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WOF are literalists for sure, because we think YHWH wants us to DO what the WORD says, not just discuss it.

But for deeper understanding, allegory is equally important, and doesn't in any way contradict WOF literalism.

The parable of the sower is one example of allegory used to inspire a literal lifestyle. (Matthew 13)

:wave:
 
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AbbaLove

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One would hope everyone calling themselves WOF would take these verses literal. Otherwise, how does their Faith differ from that of other Believers if they perceive these verses as more allegorical than literal.

Mark 11:23
I tell you the truth, you can say to this mountain, ‘May you be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and it will happen. But you must really believe it will happen and have no doubt in your heart.

Luke 17:6
The Lord answered, “If you had faith even as small as a mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘May you be uprooted and thrown into the sea,’ and it would obey you!

Maybe, we have yet to see a WOF Movement that exemplifies what Christ had in mind with the above verses Mark 11:23 and Luke 17:6.

Luke 18:6-8
6 Then the Lord said, “Learn a lesson from this unjust judge.
7 Even he rendered a just decision in the end. So don’t you think God will surely give justice to his chosen people who cry out to him day and night? Will he keep putting them off?
8 I tell you, he will grant justice to them quickly! But when the Son of Man returns, how many will he find on the earth who have faith?”

Matt 8:26
Jesus responded, “Why are you afraid? You have so little faith!” Then he got up and rebuked the wind and waves, and suddenly there was a great calm.
Matt 16:8
Jesus knew what they were saying, so he said, “You have so little faith! Why are you arguing with each other about having no bread?
Matt 14:31 Jesus immediately reached out and grabbed him. “You have so little faith,”Jesus said. “Why did you doubt me?”
Luke 7:9 When Jesus heard this, he was amazed. Turning to the crowd that was following him, he said, “I tell you, I haven’t seen faith like this in all Israel!”

 
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Bob Carabbio

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One would hope everyone calling themselves WOF would take these verses literal. Otherwise, how does their Faith differ from that of other Believers if they perceive these verses as more allegorical than literal.

Mark 11:23
I tell you the truth, you can say to this mountain, ‘May you be lifted up and thrown into the sea,’ and it will happen. But you must really believe it will happen and have no doubt in your heart.

Luke 17:6
The Lord answered, “If you had faith even as small as a mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, ‘May you be uprooted and thrown into the sea,’ and it would obey you!

Maybe, we have yet to see a WOF Movement that exemplifies what Christ had in mind with the above verses Mark 11:23 and Luke 17:6.


BINGO!!!!!! IF the "Popular version" of "Word of Faith" actually functioned as represented above - there would BE NO CONTROVERSY WHATSOEVER about it's efficacy, and rectitude.

The Practical question always is: HOW do you have FAITH - in what you HAVE NO FAITH in?? Folks mostly appear to live in the "Shadrach" mode - a GOOD general faith that God WILL DO RIGHT - without ANY IDEA what the "Right" will actually be. But SOMETIMES He tells us what He's doing - and THEN we have something SPECIFIC to claim.
 
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Juelrei

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Does anyone have an understanding of what the sea in Mark 11:23 might stand for?

Mark 11:23 NASB

"Truly I say to you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and cast into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believes that what he says is going to happen, it will be granted him.
What Jesus tells us to say in faith, is established in God's Word and already His will.
A portion of Ps.46:2 states, "The mountains slip into the heart of the sea."

What does the mountain represent? Mountains were once flat land that were pushed in great cataclysm till they rose up. So mountains represent cataclysmic events that have raised themselves up to stand in your way.

What does the sea represent? The sea is what it says. The sea is so vast and deeper than any mountain that it can swallow the biggest mountain so completely that it doesn't even exist anymore.

When a person is in your face being a nuisance, there was a time when it was common to tell them, "Go jump in the lake!"

Same thing as Jesus taught in Mark 11.
 
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Truthfrees

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One would hope everyone calling themselves WOF would take these verses literal. Otherwise, how does their Faith differ from that of other Believers if they perceive these verses as more allegorical than literal.
Yes, we surely do my brother.

I don't know a wof who isn't literal as far as BELIEVING and DOING the WORD.

As I said, allegory is used for deeper meaning, NOT as an excuse to ignore ACTING on a scripture.

:wave:
 
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Truthfrees

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What Jesus tells us to say in faith, is established in God's Word and already His will.
A portion of Ps.46:2 states, "The mountains slip into the heart of the sea."

What does the mountain represent? Mountains were once flat land that were pushed in great cataclysm till they rose up. So mountains represent cataclysmic events that have raised themselves up to stand in your way.

What does the sea represent? The sea is what it says. The sea is so vast and deeper than any mountain that it can swallow the biggest mountain so completely that it doesn't even exist anymore.

When a person is in your face being a nuisance, there was a time when it was common to tell them, "Go jump in the lake!"

Same thing as Jesus taught in Mark 11.

:thumbsup:
 
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SavedByGrace3

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The sea is the sea, the mountain is a mountain. The casting is casting the mountain into the sea.
It is exactly what it says it is. Just as the fig tree was a real fig tree, so to the mountain and the sea are a real mountain and a real sea.
Hobs
 
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