Marital Rape

[KWCrazy]

You do have a point in that a spouse who refuses to have sex is committing an offense to the other spouse. They are left with two choices; infidelity or doing without. While in many cases medical reasons prohibit sexual activity, a woman who refuses sex with her husband for selfish reasons shares in the blame of the consequence because she is in violation of God's holy sacrament. To put it more blunt, withholding sex from your spouse is a sin. One sin does not justify another, but it certainly increases the chances that another will occur.

 

[noam burde]

You do have a point in that a spouse who refuses to have sex is committing an offense to the other spouse. They are left with two choices; infidelity or doing without. While in many cases medical reasons prohibit sexual activity, a woman who refuses sex with her husband for selfish reasons shares in the blame of the consequence because she is in violation of God's holy sacrament. To put it more blunt, withholding sex from your spouse is a sin. One sin does not justify another, but it certainly increases the chances that another will occur.

I am also not sure what should someone do in this situation. i never been in this situation. its a very weird hard situation.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

You do have a point in that a spouse who refuses to have sex is committing an offense to the other spouse. They are left with two choices; infidelity or doing without. While in many cases medical reasons prohibit sexual activity, a woman who refuses sex with her husband for selfish reasons shares in the blame of the consequence because she is in violation of God's holy sacrament. To put it more blunt, withholding sex from your spouse is a sin. One sin does not justify another, but it certainly increases the chances that another will occur.

Yes, doth not the Bible command us to NOT withhold ourselves from the spouse except by mutual consent, and that only for a season?
1 Cor 7:5 "Defraud ye not one the other, except it be with consent for a time, that ye may give yourselves to fasting and prayer; and come together again, that Satan tempt you not for your incontinency."
AND, verse 4 just before, "The wife hath not power of her own body, but the husband: and likewise also the husband hath not power of his own body, but the wife."
This is of the essence of marriage, is it not?
I.e. if you do not want this, you do not get married. Right?

edit: Oops, sorry, verse 6 says St Paul does not command this, it is a permissive thing, whatever that means. I guess it is explicated in verse 7 as a "gift of God"?
And there is the ONE BODY (one body one flesh one spirit) thing discussed later in the chapter ...

 

[Dave-W]

.you DO NOT own your wife.

Please square that with this:

1 Cor 7. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

 

[Dave-W]

Oops, sorry, verse 6 says St Paul does not command this, it is a permissive thing, whatever that means.

The "permissive" part is the abstinence by mutual consent. (with some NT manuscripts adding "for prayer and fasting") The COMMAND part (NOT permissive) is to not withhold from each other.

Interestingly, the grandfather of Paul's mentor Gameliel, Rabbi Hillel had that discussion with his contemporary Rabbi Shammai. Shammai said such a "mutual consent" should only last 2 weeks, while Hillel said only one week. So it was understood to be very short term.

 

[Dave-W]

I guess it is explicated in verse 7 as a "gift of God"

Paul says one has this gift (to be single) and others have the gift of marriage. This agrees with the Lord telling the disciples when they said that perhaps it was better to not ever get married:

Matthew 19:11 But He said to them, “All cannot accept this saying, but only those to whom it has been given:"​

And the word Paul uses for "gift" is charisma, a gift of grace, that he uses a few chapters later to describe prophecy and healings.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Great clarification Dave-W.
Thanks!

 

[SnowyMacie]

Rape is rape, regardless of the relationship. For those still not understanding consent...

 

[RedPonyDriver]

Please square that with this:

1 Cor 7. 4 The wife does not have authority over her own body, but the husband does. And likewise the husband does not have authority over his own body, but the wife does.

Care to point out where that means slavery or ownership?

 

[Dave-W]

Care to point out where that means slavery or ownership?

"Authority over." If that is not slavery, what is?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Care to point out where that means slavery or ownership?

If a marriage is Biblical, i.e. in accord with the will of God, if already consented to being that, then already agreed they are the property of each other.
He is her body she is his body. That is the consent they have given, as shown in I. Cor.7.

Pardon me, I think I meant this as a reply to # 28. Sorry.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Rape is rape, regardless of the relationship. For those still not understanding consent...

Yes, one can say "consent is everything."

If a marriage is Biblical, i.e. in accord with the will of God, if already consented to being that, then already agreed they are the property of each other.
He is her body she is his body. That is the consent they have given, as shown in I. Cor.7.

 

[SnowyMacie]

Yes, one can say "consent is everything."

If a marriage is Biblical, i.e. in accord with the will of God, if already consented to being that, then already agreed they are the property of each other.
He is her body she is his body. That is the consent they have given, as shown in I. Cor.7.

That does not mean that you have the right to have sex if your spouse isn't in the mood, 2:10-2:30 in the video explains it. Furthermore, the greatest command in scripture outside of loving God is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." I have a very hard time believing or even understanding how forcing sex upon your spouse who is not in the mood is not a violation of that commandment.

 

[Runswithdogs]

1. Refusing to have sex with your spouse without legitimate reason =wrong
2. Raping/sexually assaulting your spouse =wrong

Two wrongs do not make a right.

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

That does not mean that you have the right to have sex if your spouse isn't in the mood, 2:10-2:30 in the video explains it. Furthermore, the greatest command in scripture outside of loving God is to "Love your neighbor as yourself." I have a very hard time believing or even understanding how forcing sex upon your spouse who is not in the mood is not a violation of that commandment.

Actually it probably does mean you have the right to have sex if your spouse isn't in the mood.
I.e., "not in the mood" is probably not a good (enough) reason to go against the understanding of the nature of marriage in I. Cor.7.

The business of "wanted tea last Saturday" in the video does NOT explain why you should feel free at any time to be in violation of your marriage vows. You wanted sex, you wanted marriage "for ever," not just on some Saturday night.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

"Authority over." If that is not slavery, what is?

Authority and ownership are two quite different concepts.
I have authority over my students. I do not own them.
The police have authority over me, they do not own me.
I "own" a cat. However, I do not have the right to mistreat him.

Might want to think about this for awhile.

 

[Sketcher]

Marital rape is by definition unloving. The law of love is to overarch all Christian relationships.

 

[Dave-W]

I have authority over my students.

I seriously doubt that. My mom was a teacher from the 1950s into the 1980s. Her classroom authority seriously degraded over those 30+ years.

This is biblical authority:

Matt 8.9 For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, ‘Go!’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.”

Do you have that level of control over the actions of your students?

 

[Douglas Hendrickson]

Marital rape is by definition unloving. The law of love is to overarch all Christian relationships.

WHO IS IT that denies loving?
IT is the one who is most and primarily unloving, denying love, rejecting loving.

 

[RedPonyDriver]

I seriously doubt that. My mom was a teacher from the 1950s into the 1980s. Her classroom authority seriously degraded over those 30+ years.

This is biblical authority:

Matt 8.9 For I also am a man under authority, with soldiers under me; and I say to this one, ‘Go!’ and he goes, and to another, ‘Come!’ and he comes, and to my slave, ‘Do this!’ and he does it.”

Do you have that level of control over the actions of your students?

I teach college level...and pretty much, yes, I have that kind of authority...they have to do what I say and fulfill what I expect to get the grades. College is WAY different than primary and secondary...

And...not even my husband has that kind of authority over me...he knows better. He married an independent woman and doesn't want a simpering, indecisive, zipper brain for a wife.