Many Will Be Deceived

[Gnarwhal]

I believe we will meet him in the air as it says, but it's not the point. The point is we're not abandoning this place to turn to dust and ash. We'll be here to participate in the New Creation with God, just as we're participating (or should be) now to bring the new creation forth here and now.

 

[ashout]

Islam is close to the mark, but like a subtle sin that people don't think is wrong, misses it entirely by miles. JESUS IS LORD IF YOU DONT BELIEVE THAT YOU ARE FALSE AND SO IS THE SPIRIT THAT LEADS YOU AND YOUR RELIGION!!

 

[Barefooter]

What I tell people who don't believe in the rapture, or post-tribulation, is that you have taken away the Hope. The hope of His coming. I'm watching and waiting for his coming, not looking for and dreading the tribulation.

 

[Gnarwhal]

I disagree, I think we are presently living in hope. Our hope isn't that we'll be whisked away to some far off place to float around in bliss while the rest of the Earth rots away. Our hope is the return of Christ and the resurrection of the dead, signifying the consummation of the marriage of Heaven and Earth into one reality as the New Creation.

That hope is here, and now. We have the opportunity as Jesus followers to stop sitting our hands waiting for a "rapture" and get out in the world to take up our roles in bringing the new creation out of the old one.

If anything I think that is hope in the fullest sense of the word. We look at the world not through a lens of despair, but of victory. Because Christ has already won and his Kingdom reigns now, let's get out there and share that wonderful news, let's exit our comfort zones and begin loving people well and meeting the needs of the poor and oppressed!

 

[miamited]

Hi Sometime,

If a blind man leads a blind man, will they not both fall into the pit?

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[ashout]

i wonder what that verse means Ted. obviously it means you will come to ruin if you follow people who preach falsehood, but does it mean something else too? I'm wondering becuase it uses the word pit, as in sheol perhaps?

 

[miamited]

Hi ashout,

Yes, the plain meaning of Jesus words were that if a man who doesn't know the truth leads another who doesn't know the truth, they will both wind up lost to God.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Christownsme]

Quote by John:
The Bible says that "many will be deceived".
Who will be deceived? The deception happens to those people who claim to believe in Jesus Christ and NOT nonbelievers.


Hey John,
The way I see it is that the non-believers are decieved also, according to 2 Thessalonians 2:10-12:

And with all decievableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them a strong delusion, that they should believe a lie. That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

I agree though there will also be a sector of the modern day church that will be deceived also, like what you said. This would be the goats, or wolves, depending on which parable is being read...

The True Church of Christ, the bride of Christ, made up of only born-again saints, will not and can't be deceived by a lie. (See John 8:12 below) Since they abide in Christ, the Bible says the Holy Spirit guides them into all truth.

In John 8:12, Jesus says

I am the light of the world, he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life.

The ones who will be decieved comes in two groups - the heathen will be sent a delusion by God for not loving the truth, and false christians will be decieved by themselves and and also the same way the heathen will be deceived. The politically correct "church" is not the True Church. So the politically correct church is the wolves and sheep together. This false part of this "church" (the wolves, or goats in other passages) will be deceived. The true part of the Church cannot be decieved. The devil will attempt to deceive even the most elect, but will be unable (see Matthew 24:24 below). The modern day Pharisee will suffer an extra measure of damnation, for they were enlightened to the truth, but rejected Him (Hebrews 6:4-6)

Matthew 24:24

For there shall arise false Christs and false prophets, and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch that if it were possible, they would deceive the very elect.

I really think this is saying that "if it were possible, which it isn't, the elect could be deceived.

It begs the question, who is a modern day Pharisee and who is a true born again Christian? The modern day Pharisee doesn't believe in Jesus and his finished work on the cross and the resurrection. The modern day Pharisee hasn't been born again. Yet they declare their self-righteousness out of a proud heart.

The true born again Christian need not worry - he has been born again, and truly abides in Christ as Christ abides in him. The Holy Spirit seals him, guiding him into all truth. The true born again Christian cannot fall away.. it is impossible. Why? Because the true born again Christian seeks after God's glory and after the face of the Father, believes in all things, and has been called, justified, sanctified, and glorified in God's eyes.

Finally, the lost who are not Pharisees who have rejected Christ for good, are the ones we go after to bring the Gospel message to. They are not necessarily self-righteous, but sick in sin and need Jesus Christ to heal them. May The Church reach out to the rest of the world, in whatever way God gifts us- music, ministry, love, mercy, prayer, and righteousness of God.

 

[John S]

COM - CAREFULLY read the Book of Revelations again.
The "Elect" consist of 144,000, 12,000 from the Tribes of Israel, except Dan. All of the other followers of Jesus Christ can, and probably will, be killed. - or deceived.
Many of your "born again" Christians believe in a Pre-Trib Rapture. THAT is one of the ultimate Satanic deceptions.

 

[Christownsme]

How is it that the 144,000 are any more elect than a born again Christian of today? We are saints, beloved, adopted into God's family?

Remember in the context of Colossians 3:1-17, especially verse 12:

Put on therefore, as the elect of God, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;

We who have been born into God's family, today, are also God's elect - whether we are Greek or Jew. (verse 11)

Don't give more credit to Satan than he is worth.. God's ability to keep his own elect from being decieved is talked about as promises in the Bible.

I don't think there will be a pre tribulation rapture either, but I don't believe it does eternal harm to a believer, since the main truths of the work of Jesus Christ are believed, and that's what Jesus says is important in order to be saved.

 

[John S]

"How is it that the 144,000 are any more Elect than a born again Christian of today"?
As the Book of Revelations says - When Satan can't defeat the Elect, he "makes war" with the rest of God's followers - and defeats them.

"Don't give more credit to Satan than he is worth".
If you truly believe this, then you have already been deceived.

Those who believe in the Rapture won't be looking for the antichrist and won't know him when he makes his arrival.

 

[Christownsme]

"Don't give more credit to Satan than he is worth".
If you truly believe this, then you have already been deceived.

Can you prove this? I know Satan has been defeated for believers by Jesus on the cross, and anybody who believes in Christ will not walk in darkness (or be decieved). Prove by scripture that Satan is more powerful than God for a believer when it comes to being deceived - because since God is in us, we walk in the Light... Greater is he within you than he that is in the world.

Those who believe in the Rapture won't be looking for the antichrist and won't know him when he makes his arrival.

Yes, Christians, the elect, will - the Anti christ will come peacefully, but as a man. He will decieve the Jews and then betray them. This is scriptural whether or not we hold a rapture view or not. Christ will come in a cloud of glory, it will be as fast as lightening. If we have time to think about it, it's not Jesus.

 

[John S]

COM - If you believe that you can't be deceived, then who am I to argue. Time will tell whether this is so or not.
There are ONLY 144,000 Elect. The rest of Christ's followers will be made war on - and defeated. Read it for yourself in Revelations.

 

[Christownsme]

I'm not Jewish, and I'm not part of any tribe. And I can be decieved for a time, but I can't be decieved in a way over time that will affect my salvation. That is a promise of God, not my own. I guess that's the point I want to make. God is too jealous for me, as he is with all his children, and pursues me with grace to the point if I need a kickin' to get me out of deception, he will do just that. It's all embedded in Psalm 23, how our Savior/Shepherd keeps us with his rod and staff. He fights off the deciever with the rod, and uses the staff to pull us out of hairy situations we put ourselves in. Christ's blood was given as a sacrifice to win us.. Christ is more than able and willing, then, to keep us inline. It's his testament, the new one, that is in his blood which qualifies him to pursue us in grace until he finishes our faith in victory. According the Gospel of John, and others I imagine, Jesus was able to say he lost not one of the men he drew to himself by lifting himself up on the cross, except the son of perdition, who was doomed for ruin according to scripture.

It's a good topic, John.

 

[John S]

Revelations Chapter 7 Verses 13-17 deals with the multitude of martyrs that comes out of the great tribulation.
Revelations Chapter 12, Verse 17 says that Satan will make war with the followers of Jesus Christ, after he is unable to defeat the Elect.

You don't have to believe me. Read it for yourself.
There is NO Rapture.

 

[John S]

Anyone who is Jewish is a member of the Tribe of Judah. Genesis Chapter 49.
There will be 12,000 from the Tribe of Judah.

 

[Christownsme]

Revelations Chapter 7 Verses 13-17 deals with the multitude of martyrs that comes out of the great tribulation.
Revelations Chapter 12, Verse 17 says that Satan will make war with the followers of Jesus Christ, after he is unable to defeat the Elect.

You don't have to believe me. Read it for yourself.
There is NO Rapture.

I already agreed with you earlier in a post that I don't see proof a rapture either. I just know my God will keep me saved and not decieved. I know that we need to watch for Christ's return because no man knows the hour....etc..

 

[John S]

The 144,000 members of the Elect are NOT all Jewish. ONLY 12,000 are. The rest belong to the other Tribes, who were dispersed throughout the Western World.
There will be 12,000 from Great Britain and her children - Canada, Australia, etc.
There will be 12,000 from the United States.
There will be 12,000 from Spain, Portagul, and their children - South America, etc.
And so on.

 

[Miss Elly]

The Bible says that "many will be deceived".
Who will be deceived? The deception happens to those people who claim to believe in Jesus Christ and NOT nonbelievers.
Then the next question is - How can this happen? You would think that the people who believe in the word of Jesus Christ would be immune from Satanic deception. Sadly, that is not the case. I even see that deception on these forums.
How would Satan get people to believe that he could get the antichrist past people who are constantly looking for him? By making them believe that they won't have to worry about him.
How did Satan do this? He, somehow, got the followers of Jesus Christ, in the early 21st century, to believe that they will be whisked away. In this way they will be able to avoid the hardships to come. He had made them believe that they are "special". They will avoid the trials and tribulations that have befallen all of the other people who believed in Jesus Christ since the days of the Roman Empire.
Sadly, far too many people believe Satan's deceptions. There WON'T be a Rapture. May 21st will come and go with NO special meaning to it. The next day, that these people choose, will come and go with no special meaning to it.
The antichrist WILL come. He will do "good" things to make the world a better place. People will love him. They will greatly mourn his death. When he shows his evil face, then the people who expect to be whisked away, will suddenly cry - Oh No.
Revelations states that, in the end times, the Church of Jesus Christ, will consist of 144,000 men, 12,000 from each of the Tribes of Israel, except for Dan. The reason that Dan is not included in that list, is because the antichrist will come from that Tribe.

How many minds will be changed because of this thread - probably none.

Perhaps you are deceived yourself. What difference does it make to you, God or anyone else if a christian believes in a rapture? I'm not talking about May 21, because everyone knows the scriptures say no man knows the date or the hour of the Lord's appearing.

Christians salvation does not depend on that, it depends on the blood of Jesus. Pray for all of the deceived brothers and sisters, after all that is our duty. If Jesus loves them we should too.

 

[John S]

Miss Elly - What difference does it make if a Christian believes in a Rapture?
The difference is that they won't be looking for the antichrist and will be more willing to accept him as their "savior".
What difference does it make to God? WOW. The difference between believing in Him and believing in Satan.
Am I deceived? You can believe whatever you like.