Many Christian Denominations promote "all TEN" not "Just Ellen White"

[BobRyan]

Since some have made this sort of topic a focus - recently - I am summarizing our position in this thread.

1. Many Christian denominations on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic - affirm and promote "all TEN" of the Ten Commandments as being included in the "commandments of God" applicable tot all mankind... not "Just Ellen White". (As we saw on this thread -
Clarifying the Debate "basics" on Sabbath and the TEN Commandments

2. Most of them will affirm the James 4:17 principle that not all people have the same understanding on all Bible doctrine - so it is dependent on what they know to be Bible truth as to what they are convicted by in their conscience. The James 4:17 principle is not something "only known to Ellen White" as some non-SDAs who make "all Ellen White all the time" sorts of arguments, would have it.

So while we are "saved by grace through faith" Eph 2:8-10 we are also told to "Sin not" 1 John 2:1 and that "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. Many Christian denominations affirm this point.

So for example William Miller and "Elder Stockman" known to Ellen White as saints of God (as in "good Christians") in fact never kept the Bible Sabbath a day in their life. Neither did Ellen White keep Sabbath until a few years after 1844. The Sabbath was introduced in a convincing manner to Adventists - by a Seventh-day Baptist by the name of Rachel Oaks.

3. Seventh-day Adventists test all doctrine "sola scriptura" and not "sola church tradition" or "sola tradition" as we saw in this thread Seventh-day Adventist Church is sola-scriptura testing - but not sola-tradition testing

4. Adventists do have a doctrine on eschatology about a "future" where religious liberty even in the United states is severely hammered by government to the point of harsh restrictions on the ability to worship freely as the Bible dictates. But that day has not come yet and many non-SDAs "predict" that such a day will never come. Time will tell who is correct about "the future".

5. Ellen White was very specific that there are saints in all churches all denominations. Adventists fully accept that POV.

6. Adventists are known for being included in the group of Christians that keep the Bible Sabbath - 7th day - holy each week. But at times we also have worship services on Sunday for things like "week of prayer" and "days of prayer and fasting" and "evangelistic meetings" and other special events.

==================

In all the Christian denominations that promote "the TEN" it is not considered "a good thing" to go around "Taking God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 as it violates the Law of God including the TEN Where "'honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2. They typically do not view it as "a good thing" to toss one of the Ten Commandments "under a bus" (Adventist nor not).

 

[BobRyan]

Many Adventists find these statements by Ellen White to be "instructive" on the point of this thread and OP.

"No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion." . {Ev 234.2}

GC 382-383
"And in what religious bodies are the GREATER part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. "

"Sundaykeeping is not yet the mark of the beast, and will not be until the decree goes forth causing men to worship this (substitute) sabbath. The time will come when this day will be the test, but that time has not come yet." The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:977 (1899). {LDE 224.6}

===================

Ellen White strongly supported Christian work on Sunday , Bible studies, worship services etc. So even the term "Sundaykeeping" needs to be read "in context" of her view on the "Bible Sabbath".

To this day there are Adventists all over the world hold some form of worship service on Sundays for different events including week of prayer, evangelism, etc.

For Adventists the issue is not "did you worship God on Sunday" rather it is "what is your position and affirmation of the Bible Sabbath"?

==========
Statements made about keeping Sunday should be kept in context as noted here

Ellen White grew up keeping Sunday and her family and friends also did so also her pastor and all the Millerite leaders that she so highly valued all her life as saints of God. The statement in the quote is in the context of those future events and not a condemnation of all those she continued to hold in high regard as saints of God. And the same affirmation is found in her statements of "Christians in every church" that are accepted in her view as saints of God as well as her high praise for Protestant reformers (all of whom where Sunday keeping Christians) and were regarded by her as saints of God.

Regarding Ellen White's family members that did not share her belief about the Sabbath commandment:

"Ellen White maintained close relationships with her remaining three sisters and older brother, John, corresponding and visiting with them, and sending them copies of her books and subscriptions to Adventist journals. At one time she wrote of her sisters, "Although we were not practically agreed on all points of religious duty, yet our hearts were one" (Review and Herald, Apr. 21, 1868)."​

Ellen White spoke of a time in the future when this issue becomes much more intense and is confounded by other factors not currently present on Earth. A future scenario which she did not claim had ever happened in the past or present and still has not happened.

 

[BobRyan]

Hopefully this helps cut through some of the fog that comes to mind for certain non-SDAs on this topic when it comes to Seventh-day Adventists.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

Sorry BOB but most wont read it as they have preconceived ideas even though you did a great job explaining it

 

[dqhall]

Since some have made this sort of topic a focus - recently - I am summarizing our position in this thread.

1. Many Christian denominations on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic - affirm and promote "all TEN" of the Ten Commandments as being included in the "commandments of God" applicable tot all mankind... not "Just Ellen White". (As we saw on this thread -
Clarifying the Debate "basics" on Sabbath and the TEN Commandments

2. Most of them will affirm the James 4:17 principle that not all people have the same understanding on all Bible doctrine - so it is dependent on what they know to be Bible truth as to what they are convicted by in their conscience. The James 4:17 principle is not something "only known to Ellen White" as some non-SDAs who make "all Ellen White all the time" sorts of arguments, would have it.

So while we are "saved by grace through faith" Eph 2:8-10 we are also told to "Sin not" 1 John 2:1 and that "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. Many Christian denominations affirm this point.

So for example William Miller and "Elder Stockman" known to Ellen White as saints of God (as in "good Christians") in fact never kept the Bible Sabbath a day in their life. Neither did Ellen White keep Sabbath until a few years after 1844. The Sabbath was introduced in a convincing manner to Adventists - by a Seventh-day Baptist by the name of Rachel Oaks.

3. Seventh-day Adventists test all doctrine "sola scriptura" and not "sola church tradition" or "sola tradition" as we saw in this thread Seventh-day Adventist Church is sola-scriptura testing - but not sola-tradition testing

4. Adventists do have a doctrine on eschatology about a "future" where religious liberty even in the United states is severely hammered by government to the point of harsh restrictions on the ability to worship freely as the Bible dictates. But that day has not come yet and many non-SDAs "predict" that such a day will never come. Time will tell who is correct about "the future".

5. Ellen White was very specific that there are saints in all churches all denominations. Adventists fully accept that POV.

==================

In all the Christian denominations that promote "the TEN" it is not considered "a good thing" to go around "Taking God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 as it violates the Law of God including the TEN Where "'honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2. They typically do not view it as "a good thing" to toss one of the Ten Commandments "under a bus" (Adventist nor not).

Most Christian denominations had church services on Sunday, not Saturday.
Most stores are open on Saturday and Sunday. The airports are open 365 days a year. Hospitals are open on the seventh day of the week. The military is alert seven days a week. The gas stations are open seven days a week. That is not to throw a commandment under the bus. You may rest any day of the week.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

You may rest any day of the week.

do you have bible verses to support this assertion or are you just using what man does?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Sundaykeeping is not yet the mark of the beast, and will not be until the decree goes forth causing men to worship this (substitute) sabbath. The time will come when this day will be the test, but that time has not come yet." The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:977 (1899). {LDE 224.6}

No one worships the Sabbath. I don’t see how this makes sense. People don’t worship the day they worship God on that day. So I don’t see how saying people “worship this substitute Sabbath” can be an accurate assessment.

 

[BobRyan]

No one worships the Sabbath.

I agree with that. I think we all agree on that point in general but can we also agree that no one "worships a bowl of soup" even though it can be offered to a god in certain non Christian religions religions as an "act" of worship.

Ellen White grew up keeping Sunday and her family and friends also did so also her pastor and all the Millerite leaders that she so highly valued all her life as saints of God. The statement in the quote is in the context of those future events and not a condemnation of all those she continued to hold in high regard as saints of God. And the same affirmation is found in her statements of "Christians in every church" that are accepted in her view as saints of God as well as her high praise for Protestant reformers (all of whom where Sunday keeping Christians) and were regarded by her as saints of God.

Regarding Ellen White's family members that did not share her belief about the Sabbath commandment:

"Ellen White maintained close relationships with her remaining three sisters and older brother, John, corresponding and visiting with them, and sending them copies of her books and subscriptions to Adventist journals. At one time she wrote of her sisters, "Although we were not practically agreed on all points of religious duty, yet our hearts were one" (Review and Herald, Apr. 21, 1868)."​

 

[BNR32FAN]

Hopefully this helps cut through some of the fog that comes to mind for certain non-SDAs on this topic when it comes to Seventh-day Adventists.

Well what about the dietary laws? Isn’t it true that the SDA also require keeping the dietary laws as well in order to be saved? I mean this seems to be picking and choosing which laws the SDA wants to keep and which ones they don’t want to keep. Why not keep all of the law instead of bits & pieces of it? This just seems like an inconsistent form of Judaism.

 

[BobRyan]

Most Christian denominations had church services on Sunday, not Saturday.
Most stores are open on Saturday and Sunday. The airports are open 365 days a year.

agreed.

Hospitals are open on the seventh day of the week. The military is alert seven days a week.... That is not to throw a commandment under the bus.

agreed.

You may rest any day of the week.

In Gal 4:9-10 Paul condemns Christians for keeping certain days as holy days.

 

[BobRyan]

Well what about the dietary laws? Isn’t it true that the SDA also require keeping the dietary laws as well in order to be saved?

No not "in order to be saved" any more than "do not bow down to images in order to be saved". We don't make either one of those statements.

 

[SkyWriting]

Since some have made this sort of topic a focus - recently - I am summarizing our position in this thread.

1. Many Christian denominations on BOTH sides of the Sabbath topic - affirm and promote "all TEN" of the Ten Commandments as being included in the "commandments of God" applicable tot all mankind... not "Just Ellen White". (As we saw on this thread -
Clarifying the Debate "basics" on Sabbath and the TEN Commandments

2. Most of them will affirm the James 4:17 principle that not all people have the same understanding on all Bible doctrine - so it is dependent on what they know to be Bible truth as to what they are convicted by in their conscience. The James 4:17 principle is not something "only known to Ellen White" as some non-SDAs who make "all Ellen White all the time" sorts of arguments, would have it.

So while we are "saved by grace through faith" Eph 2:8-10 we are also told to "Sin not" 1 John 2:1 and that "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. Many Christian denominations affirm this point.

So for example William Miller and "Elder Stockman" known to Ellen White as saints of God (as in "good Christians") in fact never kept the Bible Sabbath a day in their life. Neither did Ellen White keep Sabbath until a few years after 1844. The Sabbath was introduced in a convincing manner to Adventists - by a Seventh-day Baptist by the name of Rachel Oaks.

3. Seventh-day Adventists test all doctrine "sola scriptura" and not "sola church tradition" or "sola tradition" as we saw in this thread Seventh-day Adventist Church is sola-scriptura testing - but not sola-tradition testing

4. Adventists do have a doctrine on eschatology about a "future" where religious liberty even in the United states is severely hammered by government to the point of harsh restrictions on the ability to worship freely as the Bible dictates. But that day has not come yet and many non-SDAs "predict" that such a day will never come. Time will tell who is correct about "the future".

5. Ellen White was very specific that there are saints in all churches all denominations. Adventists fully accept that POV.

==================

In all the Christian denominations that promote "the TEN" it is not considered "a good thing" to go around "Taking God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 as it violates the Law of God including the TEN Where "'honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise" Eph 6:2. They typically do not view it as "a good thing" to toss one of the Ten Commandments "under a bus" (Adventist nor not).

I've never heard of her. Thanks.

 

[dqhall]

do you have bible verses to support this assertion or are you just using what man does?

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

37 Scriptures That Prove Christians Are Not Under The Law

 

[dzheremi]

Are there SDAs in Muslim-majority countries? I'm just curious how these Sabbatarian views (if that's the right word) work in countries where Friday (or some other not Saturday/Sunday day) is the day of rest mandated by the dominant religion in society.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

If the law worked then faith would be irrelevant. (Romans 4:14)

The law has no glory at all in comparison with the New Covenant. (2 Corinthians 3:10)

37 Scriptures That Prove Christians Are Not Under The Law

thanks

it there is no law then there is no sin

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

if there is no sin there is no need for Redeemer Jesus Christ

The law exists however Christians who believe in Jesus are not under the condemnation of the law

Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[BNR32FAN]

I agree with that. I think we all agree on that point in general but can we also agree that no one "worships a bowl of soup" even though it can be offered to a god in certain non Christian religions religions as an "act" of worship.

I just thought that the way that was worded seemed a bit inaccurate almost accusing of worshipping Sunday rather than worshipping Christ on Sunday. I understand it was a quote and not your own words but I wanted to point it out for clarification.

 

[BNR32FAN]

No not "in order to be saved" any more than "do not bow down to images in order to be saved". We don't make either one of those statements.

I’ve heard some say that keeping the dietary laws is required for salvation so forgive me if I misrepresented the SDA. It wasn’t my intention to falsely accuse brother.

 

[spiritfilledjm]

Great post! It's always great to see a belief system from the point of those who believe in it rather than naysayers who have no wish than to refute everything the belief system stands for.

 

[A_Thinker]

So while we are "saved by grace through faith" Eph 2:8-10 we are also told to "Sin not" 1 John 2:1 and that "sin IS transgression of the Law" 1 John 3:4 under the "one Gospel" Gal 1:6-9 that was "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8. Many Christian denominations affirm this point.

But also that believers are free from the Law ...

Romans 6:14 For sin shall no longer be your master, because you are not under the law, but under grace.

Romans 7

4 So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

5 For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.

6 But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

 

[honey badger]

Many Adventists find these statements by Ellen White to be "instructive" on the point of this thread and OP.

"No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion." . {Ev 234.2}

GC 382-383
"And in what religious bodies are the GREATER part of the followers of Christ now to be found? Without doubt, in the various churches professing the Protestant faith. "

"Sundaykeeping is not yet the mark of the beast, and will not be until the decree goes forth causing men to worship this (substitute) sabbath. The time will come when this day will be the test, but that time has not come yet." The S.D.A. Bible Commentary 7:977 (1899). {LDE 224.6}

===================

Ellen White strongly supported Christian work on Sunday , Bible studies, worship services etc. So even the term "Sundaykeeping" needs to be read "in context" of her view on the "Bible Sabbath".

To this day there are Adventists all over the world hold some form of worship service on Sundays for different events including week of prayer, evangelism, etc.

For Adventists the issue is not "did you worship God on Sunday" rather it is "what is your position and affirmation of the Bible Sabbath"?

"No one has yet received the mark of the beast. The testing time has not yet come. There are true Christians in every church, not excepting the Roman Catholic communion." . {Ev 234.2}

how did she figure Cain into this statement ?