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Man's snakes threatened by ignorant neighbors

Discussion in 'News & Current Events' started by XB3LI3V3RX, Feb 19, 2015.

  1. cow451

    cow451 The Most Interesting Poster in the Forum Supporter

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    The condo association may have some rules about pets that would apply. Fish do not get out of the tank and scare the neighbors, so the camparison is silly.

    That said, maybe the owner, instead of cursing at his neighbors could help educate them. That said, I do not know of any pet that one needs 100 of. And, he may well be operating a business from the condo, which may be a problem.
     
  2. XB3LI3V3RX

    XB3LI3V3RX Animal Lover

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    Snakes very rarely get out of their enclosures. People who do not keep their tanks correctly sealed are the ones you hear about having their animals escape. Let's create a scenario...IF one of his ball pythons got loose it would be very difficult for it to get over into the other person's side. If it got loose and went outside it would be dead in hardly any time unless it found shelter in another home very quickly. Even after all of that if it did get into someone else's home these snakes are extremely gentle and if he keeps them properly it would be used to human contact and wouldn't even think of striking at someone unless it was threatened (and they're called ball pythons because they're first defensive instinct is to curl into a ball, not strike back). It is also physically impossible for such a small snake to constrict someone to the point of death. Those people really have nothing to fear. Now with the issue of him keeping that many he could be breeding them, but I don't know the state laws about doing that there.
    Also, I agree, instead of cursing at them he could have used that as an opportunity to show them that his snakes are innocent. I could also see how he would be annoyed though because they called the police on him. A few people were actually talking to him on a reptile page I follow and he said he allowed the police inside his home to look over all his animals and they said that everything was normal. So, I'm not sure if they knew the specific laws going into the situation or what, but if that's true, then I don't see how they could legally make him do anything with his snakes. (Sorry for the long post.)
     
  3. Aureus

    Aureus Regular Member

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    Please explain the relevance of the issue in Florida with Burmese pythons to this thread that is about a man who keeps ball pythons.
     
  4. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

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    Not to open a derail but I had to chime in, the python problem in Florida is not an exaggeration, if anything the problem is under represented. I think Hurricane Andrew in the 90s is credited for the beginnings of the python problem by aiding in the escape of a ton of snakes from various snake farms combined with owners releasing their snakes into the wild when they got too big. Around 1996 an animal researcher / wildlife ranger noticed the problem, did some research and figured out that the snakes were reaching a critical mass in the wild and once they reached this critical mass it would be 100% impossible to stop their breeding since breeding is exponential when said species has no predator to cull their numbers. The number for critical mass for the area involved was something like 5,000. His research, models and extrapolations based on incidents showed the snakes at the time were numbering between 1,000 and 10,000.

    He put all of his research together into a proposal/warning and contacted every governmental agency to include the army and national guard and coast guard and said that we are facing the biggest ecological emergency in the history of the US and that we have to immediately deploy every resource to include the Army to hunt and kill these pythons within the next 6 months are else Florida will never be able to get rid of the pythons. He projected the population would reach the millions inside of 10 years if nothing was done.

    Of course he was laughed at, nothing was done, his report slipped through the various cracks.

    And now, the Python problem in Florida has reached the point of no return. It is literally impossible to cull the numbers below critical mass and Florida will now forever have pythons in the wild. So it is not an exaggeration by any stretch of the imagination and if anything is severally underreported.

    My question is a very simple one. Could a ball python kill a small child or baby. If the answer is yes, then I simply do not care about how docile the snakes are.

    If this man was keeping one or two snakes in a tank and demonstrated he was a responsible snake handler and said snake was this super docile ball python then I would be fine with it.

    But the man is keeping dozens if not a hundred snakes and that is NOT responsible, I don't care if he is the world's best snake handler. I do not want to live next to someone keeping dozens of ANY pet let alone snakes. (unless we are just talking fish for obvious reasons)

    Truth be told, if this was my neighbor, I'd give him a 30 day notice to get rid of or sell all of his snakes. At the end of 30 days, I'd get together with the other tenants, wait until he goes to work, break into his place and kill every single snake there.

    I had a similar problem with one new neighbor who moved in with the world's loudest dog that would bark all night long. After about two weeks of listening to this dog bark from dusk till dawn I bought an electronic barking shock collar for the dog and I attached a note to the box and gave it to the neighbor anonymously. The note said, "either you put this collar on your dog at night or you keep this dog in your house at night or I'm going to kill your dog." The neighbor elected to keep her dog in the house at night. Problem solved.

    I know, that may seem a bit extreme, but I just refuse to put up with certain things. I will try to be reasonable, I will try to find a solution to the problem that works for everyone, but if after all of that the problem isn't solved, I will take the matter into my own hands and solve the problem myself.
     
  5. XB3LI3V3RX

    XB3LI3V3RX Animal Lover

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    Ok for all you know he could be breeding them and as I said in another post he said the police looked over his animals and didn't find anything wrong, so he is apparently doing nothing illegal. Now what you said you would do is EXTREMELY illegal and honestly just plain crazy. If you broke into MY house and killed MY babies I would sue you to no end for so many different things. Also, he lived there first, so if these people really had a big issue with this they shouldn't have moved there in the first place. Why can't people just mind their own business if it doesn't concern them at all?
    And to answer your question about the ball pythons, they have never killed a single person and most ball python ADULTS usually only eat at the most large rats, so no I don't believe they could kill a child because they just don't get that big. And snakes aren't evil creatures that go around attacking people anyway.
     
  6. Aureus

    Aureus Regular Member

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    Any chance you had of appearing reasonable disappeared with your dog anecdote. You're incredibly lucky your neighbor didn't report you to authorities, meanwhile the rest of us are quite unlucky that didn't happen.
     
  7. SepiaAndDust

    SepiaAndDust There's a FISH in the percolator

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    Wouldn't have mattered. Last spring, I was screaming the exact same thing at my neighbor--while she was on the phone with the cops.

    The cops told me that if anything happened to her dogs, I'd be the first one they talked to. I told them that there would be no need to talk to anybody else, because I'll be the one who kills every dog in that woman's yard. They understood--there are quite literally hundreds of complaints on file about her dogs.

    We put up with it for two years, calling the cops and animal control when we couldn't take it anymore. They'd come out and give her a ticket now and then, but local law keeps the authorities from taking the woman's dogs away, so there's nothing left but to kill them.

    Since then, though, things have been better. Not great, but better. Wintertime is good--she has to take them inside when it gets cold.
     
  8. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

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    Neighbor didn't know it was me, hence the word anonymous. Besides, I spent $65 of my own money trying to solve the problem as well as provided her with reasonable alternatives. So I consider my dog anecdote reasonable. I mean, I like dogs and didn't want to hurt it, but I'm not going to put up with not sleeping just because she can't control her dog.

    I'm just not one to whine and complain about a problem I can solve. For instance, parking is a problem in my neighborhood, only so much space to park. Well, there were a few people who would double park all the time taking up two parking spaces. So, I took it upon myself to write them a ticket. Ticket simply said, "Double parking is selfish and rude, if you double park again, I'm going to slash your tires."

    they never double parked again. Problem solved.

    I know, it seems extreme but I don't think so. To me, obsessing about something and whining and complaining about a problem you can fix seems more extreme to me. I'm just not one to put up with certain things. I think it is unreasonable for my next door neighbor to harbor a hundred snakes.

    However, I will say this though. If the ball pythons are no threat to my children and he proves to me that there is virtually a 0% chance of his snakes getting out AND his snakes never get out, then I'm not going to care. I mean, if I never see them and they don't impact my life in any way shape or form, then as far as I'm concerned they don't exist and I don't care.
     
  9. SepiaAndDust

    SepiaAndDust There's a FISH in the percolator

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    I don't know what the neighborhood there is like. Around here, though, a big ole escaped snake would--at worst--pose a threat to some of the wild rabbits (it can have 'em--we have plenty and to spare.)

    I don't think that most of my neighbors would have a problem with the guy's snakes. His house would quickly become known in the mythology of the local kids as the house full of snakes (which means that they'd all want a peek inside).

    I'm of the opinion that any snake--especially the non-venomous ones--can kill you dead with a glance from twenty feet away, but even I wouldn't mind the guy having his pythons (as long as he took the time and made the effort to care for them properly).
     
  10. Aureus

    Aureus Regular Member

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    Sounds good until you add the "or I'm going to commit a felony over the minor inconvenience you are causing" part. A consistent behavior of using violent threats over trivialities does not make you a reasonable person.

    Which is why we have laws and police to enforce those laws, rather than a bunch of vigilante loose cannons threatening violence against anyone who they personally feel is being 'unreasonable.'

    Its not his responsibility to prove those things to you, even if you manage to scrape by enough reasonableness to let the snakes be, the next person in line may not. The snake owner in question is not and should not be at the whim of what his neighbors, in their ignorance, foolishness or warped senses of justice judge as 'reasonable.'
     
  11. ulu

    ulu Senior Member

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    I love snakes, but would prefer if they, and other exotic animals were banned as pets.

    It's just an incredibly bogus existence for such beautiful creatures.

    It's far more unnatural for a snake to be kept in a small enclosure/aquarium/plastic case than it is for a person to be locked up in prison for life.
     
  12. XB3LI3V3RX

    XB3LI3V3RX Animal Lover

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    This right here is one of the few things I've read today that has actually made sense.
     
  13. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

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    It's only a misdemeanor, and it's not trivialities. They are acts that are harmful to the community. Police won't respond because they don't think it's important. As a citizen I have no real power to compel this person to do the right thing. So, I will do something that will get his attention. A tire costs about $50 give or take. It's a minor inconvenience that is a punishment that matches his rude behavior, and I warned him first and have yet ever had to warn someone twice. I'm not threatening physical violence like kneecapping him, only minor destruction of property that is commensurate with his selfish act. I'm not going to put sugar in his gas tank or set his car on fire, that would be a seriously gross overreaction. But a flat tire for double parking after being warned is fair imo. A ticket would be around $75. So about the same thing.

    I completely disagree. We are a community and for right or wrong members of your community will have issues and concerns. Any issue that someone feels is a threat to their well being or safety needs to be addressed. There are plenty of instances where an issue can fall through the cracks of the law.

    There are some states where it is "legal" to own wild animals like Chimpanzees or poisonous snakes. Just because it is legal doesn't mean I'm going to risk the safety of my children so you can keep your chimp or poisonous snake in your house next door.

    You can do whatever you want as long as it doesn't impact the safety of myself or family. If it does, then I really don't care what the law says. The law isn't going to be much comfort when your animal kills a member of my family.

    Snake kills two boys during sleepover, Canadian police say - CNN.com

    6 Tragic Stories of Exotic Pet Ownership Gone Wrong : TreeHugger

    I consider it common neighborly courtesy. Like when I'm going to hold a party I let my neighbors know and I ask their permission if they would mind cars parking in front of their house for one day and I give them my number and ask them to call me if things get too loud. I also invite them to the party.

    For the most part, I understand and agree with your sentiment. But for very specialized matters like the well being and safety of my family, I really do not care about the law. I don't. I'm not going to let the law or lack of a law threaten the well being and safety of my family.
     
    Last edited: Feb 20, 2015
  14. Aureus

    Aureus Regular Member

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    Tires cost $50 to $200 a piece and you threatened to slash 4, ie, $800 dollars in damage on my car.

    $800 dollars in damage is not commensurate with parking poorly. Even 'just $50' dollars in damage that could require towing the car, could make someone late for work, could cost them a day's pay, hell it could get them fired. All because you want to pay vigilante justice bringer.

    Unless it comes to... Parking. Which of course poses absolutely no threat to your family yet still, they warrant your threats and apparently your absolute conviction you would go through with $800 dollars in damage because slashing four tires is the same as parking poorly. Meanwhile you would grow unreasonable with concern and demand utter satisfaction about some harmless snakes... when was the last time you cared that a neighbor had an animal that was more than capable of, and have a history of, killing and maiming children? You know, Dogs. Of course those only bother if you if they make noise.
     
  15. KitKatMatt

    KitKatMatt stupid bleeding heart feminist liberal

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    Condo's rules. They can ban any animals they like, except service animals, for whatever reasons they want.

    But if the rules don't ban an animal, and that animal is not causing a disturbance (not making loud sounds, not getting out and showing up in a neighbor's door or condo, not smelling everything up, not destroying things, etc), then those people need to suck it up.
     
  16. Aureus

    Aureus Regular Member

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    Very true.

    Exactly.
     
  17. dgiharris

    dgiharris Newbie

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    Come on, I'm talking about 1 tire. Yes, I realize I said "slash your tires" but I clearly outlined just one tire in my example, so $50 worth of damage (used tires are as cheap as $25, premium tires up to $200). The reason exactly one tire is because almost everyone carries a spare. I'm fair and provided warning and you are stretching to say that me slashing someone's tire will get them fired, I mean, sure if you contrive an example that is possible but not probable. Besides they were warned...

    If I happen to walk by and I see someone beating a policeman unconscious do I THEN have your permission to play vigilante and justice bringer and help the cop?

    If I see something that is wrong and the wrong deeply upsets me then I have every right to try to correct the situation. And in my neighborhood double parking is a big deal, we have to walk up to two blocks over to park in another area due to traffic restriction.

    When police are called about it they do nothing. I know, I called them twice, second time they actually laughed at me before they hung up. So what is the alternative? When I moved to my neighborhood around 6 to 7 cars would double park every single day (total of about 25 parking spaces) so they effectively took up 12 to 14 spaces. After I started posted my warnings on everyone's car, that number fell to ZERO in two weeks. It's been over two years and I only have to post a warning like once every 3 or 4 months and I have yet to had to make good on my threat.

    If I had to hazard a guess, the reason this upsets your delicate sensibilities is because maybe you are a sheeple??? I'm not a sheeple. I consider myself a nice, helpful citizen that just isn't going to take anyone's crap because said person is thoughtless and lazy. I'm not slashing tires at night in gleeful joy everytime I "catch" someone. No. I write a ticket as a warning and I HOPE that solves the problem and so far it has.

    Let me get this straight. You live your life, all is well, and then Ms. Johnson one of your neighbors tells you, "Hey, I heard the guy next door to you has a bunch of snakes in his house and I think some of them are pythons, i'm not sure". According to you it is "unreasonable" for me to be concerned, to talk to that neighbor and clarify the situation to my satisfaction?

    Where I come from, we make it a point to actually know our neighbors because we all live together in a community and getting along is part of it. If a neighbor does something that impacts or could impact all of us, it is our business. And for the sake of "getting along" something needs to be worked out. This is very common in the South where I grew up. As are block parties and actually knowing your neighbors and having their spare keys in your house just in case they lock themselves out. You know, being a community. So as a concerned member, I'd talk to my neighbor and he had better alleviate my concerns or else I will take matters into my own hands. Obviously first step is calling the police. But if they can't help for whatever reason then I'll solve the problem. Of course I hope it doesn't come to that, I will follow the path of least resistance. Likewise I'm not going to approach him as King of His Castle, I will try to be as amiable and reasonable as possible. But sometimes and with some people you can't reason. I would hope it doesn't come to that. In this case, once he shows me the snakes, his tanks, proves there is no danger, then I will stop caring. Otherwise, we would have a problem and I don't think that is unreasonable..

    First off, I'm from the south. When someone has a dog that poses a threat and has attacked any person unfairly that dog gets put down immediately. That is very common practice. Secondly, as far as noise is concerned, an unreasonable amount of noise is what I'm talking about. I've lived with dogs my entire life and have only encountered one situation of a dog that just made "too much" noise.

    Again, I'm not some crazy flying off the handle for every supposed imagined transgression. I'm not some vigilante that lays awake at night just "hoping" for the chance to exact some justice. I'm just a man that refuses to put up with bs. That's all. I'm even willing to spend my own money to alleviate a problem if that will work. I know, it is strange but i've always been an "out of the box" type person...
     
  18. ChristsSoldier115

    ChristsSoldier115 Mabaho na Kuya

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    perhaps he should claim they are service animals.. all 100 of them. :D

    100 snakes? how big are these condos? that sounds excessive.
     
  19. High Fidelity

    High Fidelity Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Most people that own that many snakes, particularly ball pythons, keep them in racks. You could easily fit them in a bedroom.
     
  20. jacknife

    jacknife Theophobic troll

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    snakes dont require much room.
     
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