Mandatory seat belt laws are tyrannical

dogs4thewin

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Note my use of the word "reasonably".

As for having common sense, good for you. I almost killed someone two days ago who probably thinks the same thing. In a momentary lapse, she didn't check a mirror before exiting a driver's side door right onto a busy road, and if I had been a hair's breadth less alert, I'd have sandwiched her between her door and the front of the heavy vehicle I was driving at the time. It's still pretty fresh in my mind. But I can give you any number of day to day examples from personally experience, without even beginning to dip into my experience as a nurse, where I would have treated quite literally hundreds of adults abounding in common sense who nonetheless managed to find new and exciting ways to horrifically injure themselves in a momentary lapse.

I myself have a permanent titanium plate in my left middle finger from a case of "seemed like a good idea at the time" incident which took less than 2 seconds to occur, and I can assure you I find myself perfectly sensible and possessed of common sense.

For arguments sake, look up road fatalities per capita for your jurisdiction for the 10 years before seat belt laws and the 10 years after.
But that choice to not wear a seat belt is not DIRECTLY effecting anyone else. It is up to each person to decide things like that. There may have been more fatalities, but how many of those accidents were the fault of NOT HAVING seat belts on? I did not asks you how many of those fatalities could have been prevented with seat belts I asked how many of those accidents that led to the fatalities were caused based on rather or not seat belts were being usws by the parties.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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Maybe so and maybe no but that should be the adult's choice. Laws like this are many times more about revenue than anything.
Yes, a big 'maybe'.
Many of people I knew and met over decades,
knew more people in their own family
killed because they had seat belts on
than helped by them.
A lot of the news reports likewise , when they slipped up ,
admitted this too.
Likewise the tragedy and lies spun about air bags..
and no one really caring that it started and was based on
lies, and continued because
of
.............. M O N E Y
 
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dogs4thewin

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Armoured is right in this.. you others are wrong.
I covered this subject in depth a long time ago.

When you are injured or killed in an auto accident, consider all the other people who are affected.. Just from a pure financial viewpoint.
If we remove the seat belt law the it would only be fair to remove the requirement for an insurance company to pay out coverage.. Life insurance, medical coverage, etc.
We should also then remove or severely limit any liability of the automotive companies for defects of the vehicles..

Wearing a seat belt is not about you or your rights.. its about everyone else.
How so? Who else is my decision to not wear a seat belt DIRECTLY effecting in my day to day life? I do wear seat belts.
 
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dogs4thewin

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Its a lot deeper than that.. Consider that your death would have a high probability that society would then be required to take care of your children when you die.. That means the financial penalty falls to everyone else..

Consider the medical resources alone when you're injured.. you're using up medical resources that are subject to limited supply like blood, organs, etc . Should society be allowed to deny you these things based on your seat belt use?

Should society tell your children they won't get welfare like food or other medical care because their parent(s) died in an auto accident and were not wearing their seat belts?

Should we also limit or excuse any liability on another driver if they are at fault but you did not mitigate the potential consequences?

Keep thinking about how your liberties start to have an effect on others...
As it relates to people being on welfare after your death there is a thing called money management and another thing called life insurance have good enough of both and that is much less likely to be an issue. (Trust me, as someone whose father passed away at 53 having BOTH of these things.
 
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yeshuaslavejeff

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How so? Who else is my decision to not wear a seat belt DIRECTLY effecting in my day to day life? I do wear seat belts.
The insurance companies and local and federal and state laws have everyone over a [false] barrel.
Used to be anyway,
if one party in a collision was not wearing a seatbelt,
and the other party in the collision was wearing a seatbelt,
the one not wearing a seatbelt LOST - was not covered.

The truth about whether it was more safe or more dangerous was lost decades ago, smothered in lies for financial gain.
 
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dogs4thewin

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An unrestrained person in a car has become a lethal missile in more than one car accident I know of. Although it's pretty far down the list of causes of death, avoiding entries in the "killed by the guy in the other car coming through my windshield at 100kph" subcategory seems a compelling enough reason to make seatbelts mandatory.
Really? Even you admitted it was far down the causes if death. I am fairly certain that there are other things that cause MUCH more death that either A cannot be regulated B have tried to be regulated and failed ( drug war for example) or C just are not worth trying to regulate because there are bigger fish to fry and/or people KNOW it will fail so there is no point in spending resources trying ( Cigarettes fit here)
 
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Armoured

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Really? Even you admitted it was far down the causes if death. I am fairly certain that there are other things that cause MUCH more death that either A cannot be regulated B have tried to be regulated and failed ( drug war for example) or C just are not worth trying to regulate because there are bigger fish to fry and/or people KNOW it will fail so there is no point in spending resources trying ( Cigarettes fit here)
Perfect world fallacy.
 
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Armoured

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But that choice to not wear a seat belt is not DIRECTLY effecting anyone else. It is up to each person to decide things like that. There may have been more fatalities, but how many of those accidents were the fault of NOT HAVING seat belts on? I did not asks you how many of those fatalities could have been prevented with seat belts I asked how many of those accidents that led to the fatalities were caused based on rather or not seat belts were being usws by the parties.
It absolutely affects others directly.
 
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Armoured

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Maybe so and maybe no but that should be the adult's choice. Laws like this are many times more about revenue than anything.
Nonsense. Every case of paraplegia prevented by seatbelts is worth more than millions in revenue. In real world figures.
 
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Maddox

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I think the point was that it is mandatory to do the labeling if you are manufacturing products that can easily lead to poisoning when digested, inhaled etc.

There is no law that says you can not drink or eat poison if you want although most people will upon reading the label choose not to eat rat poison themselves.

Perhaps here then is a nice balance between what is required by law and what is expected of sane person having a free will.

William Pitt The Elder Quote

"Where laws end, tyranny begins."
 
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Dave Ellis

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Maybe so and maybe no but that should be the adult's choice. Laws like this are many times more about revenue than anything.

No, they're mainly about safety. There aren't that many seatbelt tickets handed out, because the vast majority of people drive with them on.

If you create more work for the EMT's because you didn't wear your seatbelt, that's a problem. If you were killed in an accident that you would have otherwise survived, harming your family or dependents, causing them to require government assistance or whatnot, that's also a problem. You don't live in a bubble, your decisions have consequences for the people around you.

There are rules of the road, one of the main principles behind having rules is for safety. If you happen to be in an accident, you'll have a lower risk of serious injury if you are wearing a seatbelt, which is completely in line with the safety principle. It's a completely justifiable law.
 
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FenderTL5

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..one of the main principles behind having rules is for safety. If you happen to be in an accident, you'll have a lower risk of serious injury if you are wearing a seatbelt, which is completely in line with the safety principle. It's a completely justifiable law.

[random thought]
Given that criteria and that most auto related deaths are due to head injury and a majority of head injuries overall are due to car crashes - shouldn't drivers be required to wear helmets?
 
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dogs4thewin

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No, they're mainly about safety. There aren't that many seatbelt tickets handed out, because the vast majority of people drive with them on.

If you create more work for the EMT's because you didn't wear your seatbelt, that's a problem. If you were killed in an accident that you would have otherwise survived, harming your family or dependents, causing them to require government assistance or whatnot, that's also a problem. You don't live in a bubble, your decisions have consequences for the people around you.

There are rules of the road, one of the main principles behind having rules is for safety. If you happen to be in an accident, you'll have a lower risk of serious injury if you are wearing a seatbelt, which is completely in line with the safety principle. It's a completely justifiable law.
Why? It is OUR safety How does it DIRECTLY affect anyone else? IF you have an accident BUT what are the chances of that on any given day?
 
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Tallguy88

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dogs4thewin

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Perfect world fallacy.
How so? You have to figure out how many people it can safe to determine whether it is worth inposing on everyone. Smoking causes MUCH more death, yet if a person is at least eighteen years of age they can smoke three packs a day. Alcohol causes many more deaths ( not counting drunk driving in those deaths) yet there is NOTHING wrong with me getting WASTED at my house and going swimming getting wasted every day and ending up with liver issues. Food There are various things ( health issues many fatal relating to overeating (being overweight yet do they control how much junk food a person buys?
 
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dogs4thewin

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It absolutely affects others directly.
How? What are the odds of having an accident on any given day? Without an accident how on Earth does it effect anyone else?
 
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