Male only Pastors

[Radagast]

Actually, it's pretty well established

Really? All the bishops I've seen on ancient lists are bishops of specific towns, like Polycarp in Smyrna and Ignatius in Antioch -- not overseers over groups of towns.

 

[Albion]

Really? All the bishops I've seen on ancient lists are bishops of specific towns, like Polycarp in Smyrna and Ignatius in Antioch -- not overseers over groups of towns.

You're only talking about their residence, aren't you? For example, the "Bishop of Antioch" is not simply the pastor of one parish/congregation in Antioch.

 

[Radagast]

You're only talking about their residence, aren't you? For example, the "Bishop of Antioch" is not simply the pastor of one parish/congregation in Antioch.

I grant you multiple congregations in a town... although probably not in the very early stages.

 

[Albion]

I grant you multiple congregations in a town... although probably not in the very early stages.

Well, that's right, but it was very early in the history of the church--the first century, still the Apostolic era--that the elders in various Christian centers began choosing one of their number to oversee several different congregations in a region.

 

[Radagast]

Well, that's right, but it was very early in the history of the church--the first century--that the elders in various Christian centers began choosing one of their number to oversee several different congregations in a region.

Such as who....? (apart from John -- I agree he had such a role).

 

[Albion]

Such as who....? (apart from John -- I agree he had such a role).

Most of these were not Apostles but simply ordinary presbyters as served all the congregations. The Apostles, as we know, were mainly missionaries.

 

[Radagast]

Most of these were not Apostles but simply ordinary presbyters as served all the congregations. The Apostles, as we know, were mainly missionaries.

I go back to saying: all the bishops I've seen on lists are bishops of a specific town.

 

[Albion]

I go back to saying: all the bishops I've seen on lists are bishops of a specific town.

I do not know this Rev. Kenneth Collins who is a member of a denomination that does not have bishops. I just found this article online, so it is not anything that prompted my earlier comments about bishops, etc.

However, I recommend it because it's a very readable discussion of the issue we have been having.

Ken Collins’ Website

 

[jahel]

This is the Biblical criteria for a pastor defined by the Apostle Paul:



1 Timothy 3:1-7
1This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.



And again to Titus:

6 If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not accused of riot or unruly.
7 For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
8 But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy, temperate;
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

More femocide in the making because of mistranslation and misinterpretation. Nice!

 

[Radagast]

Ken Collins’ Website

Bishops presided over the priests in the main church of a major city and supervised the priests who served in smaller churches in the outlying towns.

That became true eventually. Certainly after Constantine. I'm not sure it was true in the 1st century, though.

 

[Radagast]

More femocide in the making because of mistranslation and misinterpretation. Nice!

Huh? It's true that in 1 Timothy 3:1, εἴ τις is better rendered "if anyone." However, in verse 2, the bishop/overseer is clearly an ἄνδρα (man).

 

[Albion]

That became true eventually. Certainly after Constantine

Oh no. It was very early in church history. Perhaps you are thinking of some other aspect of episcopal polity.

 

[Radagast]

Oh no. I was very early in church history.

What evidence do you have for saying that?

 

[Albion]

Let's begin with your critique of the Ken Collins article, since that is something that's already been entered into this thread.