Male / Female Friendships

YouAreAwesome

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My husband is not a car guy...my male friends meet the need I have for racing, for working on my car, for getting together with other car people. There aren't many women into the whole muscle car, racing scene...I'm into it so my male friends meet that need I have in that way. Most, if not all the guys are married to women who are not into the car scene...however, in all the years I've been racing, showing, working on cars, I've NEVER looked at any of the guys romantically...mostly because in other ways, they're not "my type"...my husband is "my type". He has hobbies I'm not interested in that he pursues that have many women involved...am I worried? Heck no!
This makes sense but what if one of the men was "your type"? Would you put something in place to ensure nothing developed? I guess I'm just seeing everyone so "flippant" about this issue as though "it could never be a problem for me!" but then, who does think it's a problem for them? Who is the person who cheats and how do they think about it? I know for me, I have never cheated on a partner, neither before marriage or after. It is something very important to me.
 
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Paidiske

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Yes, I would agree with both of these examples. I have friends at work also. I suppose my point is that the conversation should remain surface level only and friendships should also be surface level only. Would you agree?

No. While I agree that - for example - it would be a bad idea to has out problems in my marriage with a straight male friend, I don't feel the need to keep my friendships "surface level only." Not much of a friendship, is it?

Am I saying "it could never be a problem for me"? I don't think so. But I don't see friendships as the place where a potential problem would be incubated; as I said above, to my mind, the best protection against the temptation to cheat is working to keep my marriage strong, not removing other things from my life.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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No. While I agree that - for example - it would be a bad idea to has out problems in my marriage with a straight male friend, I don't feel the need to keep my friendships "surface level only." Not much of a friendship, is it?

Am I saying "it could never be a problem for me"? I don't think so. But I don't see friendships as the place where a potential problem would be incubated; as I said above, to my mind, the best protection against the temptation to cheat is working to keep my marriage strong, not removing other things from my life.
As long as its working for you, all power to you. But just so you know, there is a place for removing things e.g. drugs, corrupting friends, all nighters, foul language, critical attitudes, etc. Working to do good helps to remove these things, but a choice to move in that direction also helps. And finally, it's better to work at a strong marriage and also remove the dangers, than only working at a strong marriage.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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I think the things that "set the stage" for infidelity are not so much honest friendships, but things like selfishness, lack of communication skills, lack of conflict resolution skills. Things which directly erode the marriage.

Sounds straight out of the Oprah book of how to keep a relationship healthy...
 
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RedPonyDriver

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This makes sense but what if one of the men was "your type"? Would you put something in place to ensure nothing developed? I guess I'm just seeing everyone so "flippant" about this issue as though "it could never be a problem for me!" but then, who does think it's a problem for them? Who is the person who cheats and how do they think about it? I know for me, I have never cheated on a partner, neither before marriage or after. It is something very important to me.

So you think I wouldn't have enough self-control to realize that the rings on my finger are a sign of a covenant I made with my husband before God?
 
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Paidiske

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Sounds straight out of the Oprah book of how to keep a relationship healthy...

It's been years since I've seen Oprah, but are you suggesting that selfishness, lack of communication skills, lack of conflict resolution skills, aren't going to be a problem in a marriage?

I do a lot of marriage preparation work with couples. Most of them need to be taught how to work through their disagreements constructively. And I worry about that far more for marriages than I do about whether one or both has opposite-sex friends.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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So you think I wouldn't have enough self-control to realize that the rings on my finger are a sign of a covenant I made with my husband before God?
I don't know you, I can't answer that. What I do know, is there are thousands of people with rings on their finger who don't have the self-control. So if you think you're not one of them, how can you be sure? Therefore, isn't it better to safeguard?
 
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YouAreAwesome

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It's been years since I've seen Oprah, but are you suggesting that selfishness, lack of communication skills, lack of conflict resolution skills, aren't going to be a problem in a marriage?

I do a lot of marriage preparation work with couples. Most of them need to be taught how to work through their disagreements constructively. And I worry about that far more for marriages than I do about whether one or both has opposite-sex friends.
Worrying about something more does not mean the thing less worried about isn't also a problem.
 
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Paidiske

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Look, YouAreAwesome, if you want to lock yourself into a box so that you never encounter temptation, that's your call. To me, that seems a lot like burying one's talent in the ground, but it really all depends on what one's appetite for risk vs. result is, isn't it?
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Look, YouAreAwesome, if you want to lock yourself into a box so that you never encounter temptation, that's your call. To me, that seems a lot like burying one's talent in the ground, but it really all depends on what one's appetite for risk vs. result is, isn't it?
I will never risk my marriage; the family unit for my child. What result is possibly worth that risk? It seems to me, something rings true with you about this, but you're not quite sure how to deal with it. The fact is, people cheat, and that possibility confronts every person alive. I'd like to know, where do you draw the line? Would you have dinner alone with a male workmate? Would you travel together to and from? How often would you deem appropriate? Would you hug on meeting? Would you talk about deep spiritual matters? Would you stay in the same room on a work trip?
 
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Paidiske

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No, it doesn't ring true for me. Actually, I'm really irritated at the view of people as potential temptation rather than potential blessing.

Where do I draw the line? Have dinner alone - as in, in a private house rather than out in public? Maybe, depending on the circumstances. I have done so. (For example, a friend of mine invited me to preach in his parish church. He lives quite some distance away, so I travelled up the evening before and stayed at his house. He cooked me dinner. No problem).

Travel together - potentially, depending what we're talking about. I mean, I've driven or taken public transport together with male colleagues when we're attending the same event. Going separately for no good reason would be weird? Hug on meeting - potentially. I do for some. Talk about deep spiritual matters - sure. Stay in the same room on a trip, no.

Where do I draw the line? I treat a friendship like a friendship and not like a romantic relationship. But I don't deliberately keep my male friendships less deep or genuine than my female ones. And I don't feel that I'm risking my marriage by doing so.

Edited to add: and part of the reason I'm irritated, too, I think is that this is very close to other arguments that have been used to limit women. That in the workplace or place of learning we are too much of a temptation, so should not work or study alongside men, for example. I have this suspicion that this argument for men and women not being friends is related to the line of thought that would like to keep women in their own sphere of life, and therefore unable to participate in wider society to the full.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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I don't know you, I can't answer that. What I do know, is there are thousands of people with rings on their finger who don't have the self-control. So if you think you're not one of them, how can you be sure? Therefore, isn't it better to safeguard?

I think you don't know me...and I think you're spending WAY too much time talking about something that may or may not happen in any marriage. I also think you have a rather warped idea about how many couples experience adultery in their marriages...I would highly advise joining the real world and stop worrying about things that don't concern you.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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Where do I draw the line? Have dinner alone - as in, in a private house rather than out in public? Maybe, depending on the circumstances. I have done so. (For example, a friend of mine invited me to preach in his parish church. He lives quite some distance away, so I travelled up the evening before and stayed at his house. He cooked me dinner. No problem).

Wow! I'm VERY surprised by this. I would have thought a private dinner is a more intimate than a public one. I understand there may be the odd isolated occasion, such as the one you have described. But if this is normal behavior, as in, it happens on a regular occurrence, you either don't see yourself as attractive, or you don't understand the male mind. Men think sex. You will know this through your marriage guidance preparation teaching. Men are physically driven. Women are emotionally driven. (Large generalization of course, but for the majority it is true). So spending time alone, eating, talking, sleeping over, very dangerous if semi-regular.

No, it doesn't ring true for me. Actually, I'm really irritated at the view of people as potential temptation rather than potential blessing.

Not all people, just people who are in your age bracket of the gender you are attracted to. Lines need to be drawn.

I don't deliberately keep my male friendships less deep or genuine than my female ones. And I don't feel that I'm risking my marriage by doing so.

I believe you are. If you don't draw a line with the deepness of your friendship, then you are opening yourself to emotional and spiritual adultery. These can lead to the act of physical adultery. What are the ingredients for adultery? Friendship, emotional connection, spiritual connection, attraction - but attraction can rear it's head after the first three have been forged. Many married couples know this because it is true for their own relationship.

and part of the reason I'm irritated, too, I think is that this is very close to other arguments that have been used to limit women. That in the workplace or place of learning we are too much of a temptation, so should not work or study alongside men, for example. I have this suspicion that this argument for men and women not being friends is related to the line of thought that would like to keep women in their own sphere of life, and therefore unable to participate in wider society to the full.

I'm not arguing in that way at all. This cuts both ways. I am simply saying, women should be "best friends" with women, and men should be "best friends" with men, and by "best friends" I mean whoever is the next best friend second to our partner.
 
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Paidiske

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But we're talking more broadly than "best friends" to friendship in general, aren't we? I'd be hard pressed to name a "best friend" but I have many friends.

The sort of dinner I described isn't a regular occurrence, but I know that particular friend well enough to know that he's not interested in me sexually. Nor I in him. And that's why I'm saying it's fine to make decisions on a case-by-case basis. I wouldn't do that with every friend, but with that friend, it's fine.

I just think that looking at every person of the opposite sex as a potential sexual partner - which is what saying "but you could fall into adultery!" really is - is a pretty twisted view of how we can relate to people. (And I'm really tired of the implication that those of us who feel that way are blase about adultery, too).
 
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YouAreAwesome

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but I know that particular friend well enough to know that he's not interested in me sexually

I'm not sure you can ever truly know this; I've known many individuals to hide their attraction as I'm sure you would know as well. I would always encourage against this naivety (I say naive not as an insult, but as a description of anyone who has not cheated).

I just think that looking at every person of the opposite sex as a potential sexual partner - which is what saying "but you could fall into adultery!" really is - is a pretty twisted view of how we can relate to people.

It's not just about sex, it's the emotional connection and the spiritual connection as well. And I completely disagree. We definitely should be aware of the potential temptations and avoid them completely.
 
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Paidiske

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I know this, in this case, because that particular guy is completely gay and not at all interested in women.

You want to avoid all women, ever, be my guest. Just don't try to tell the rest of us how awful we are for disagreeing with you.
 
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RedPonyDriver

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Men think sex. You will know this through your marriage guidance preparation teaching. Men are physically driven. Women are emotionally driven. (Large generalization of course, but for the majority it is true). So spending time alone, eating, talking, sleeping over, very dangerous if semi-regular.

Ahhh...a person who thinks the book "Love and Respect" is gospel truth. I read that book and it's the biggest sort of hogwash when it comes to marriage.

I can do a lot of things with my male friends and sex never enters into it...know why? Because, unlike your blanket assertion that men are "physically driven", you've obviously never hung with the grown ups who do not run around like a bunch of rutting animals, losing their little minds any time a woman gets anywhere near them.
 
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YouAreAwesome

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You want to avoid all women, ever, be my guest.

you've obviously never hung with the grown ups who do not run around like a bunch of rutting animals, losing their little minds any time a woman gets anywhere near them.

Well, I guess this is where the discussion ends and the straw-man attacks begin. Ciao.
 
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Victor E.

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If by your faith you violate someone else's conscious you sin against Christ by doing what they they think is unclean/sinful. If it causes your brother/sister to stumble, for conscious sake, sleep in different rooms or don't pursue activities that promote evil speculation. Not everyone is separated from temptations/patterns that plague this world.

"Now concerning food offered to idols: we know that “all of us possess knowledge.” This “knowledge” puffs up, but love builds up. If anyone imagines that he knows something, he does not yet know as he ought to know. But if anyone loves God, he is known by God.

Therefore, as to the eating of food offered to idols, we know that “an idol has no real existence,” and that “there is no God but one.” For although there may be so-called gods in heaven or on earth—as indeed there are many “gods” and many “lords”—yet for us there is one God, the Father, from whom are all things and for whom we exist, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things and through whom we exist.

However, not all possess this knowledge. But some, through former association with idols, eat food as really offered to an idol, and their conscience, being weak, is defiled. Food will not commend us to God. We are no worse off if we do not eat, and no better off if we do. But take care that this right of yours does not somehow become a stumbling block to the weak. For if anyone sees you who have knowledge eating in an idol's temple, will he not be encouraged, if his conscience is weak, to eat food offered to idols? And so by your knowledge this weak person is destroyed, the brother for whom Christ died. Thus, sinning against your brothers and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. Therefore, if food makes my brother stumble, I will never eat meat, lest I make my brother stumble."

Food being a spiritual allusion to idolatry or "unclean things/actions" *to a degree*.
 
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2Timothy2:15

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I know this, in this case, because that particular guy is completely gay and not at all interested in women.

You want to avoid all women, ever, be my guest. Just don't try to tell the rest of us how awful we are for disagreeing with you.

Just to clarify, you saying your friendship with this particular man is ok because he is an open homosexual friend of yours who is a sexual deviant?
 
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