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Making America Great Again

Discussion in 'American Politics' started by April_Rose, Sep 27, 2020.

  1. Heart2Soul

    Heart2Soul Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That article was misleading and a lie.
     
  2. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    If you can live without buying stuff, then you can live without an income. They go hand in hand and are equally voluntary, and therefore so are any taxes on them
     
  3. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Esh well that's the problem because I can't. I make too much money to have the taxpayers afford me food and housing and medical care, but if I decide to attempt to live off welfare then my wife and children suffer. Don't wish to subject them to poverty. I'm sure many families, who make a lot less than I do, feel this way. Therefore, I would rather advocate for those who are having their income stripped from them by force while helping dismantle a system and only advocates for the poor to remain poor. Make sense?
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2020
  4. NxNW

    NxNW Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what was happening before SS came along.

    I'd like more details on the opt in/out proposal. Given the fact that current workers pay for current retiree benefits, opting out now would cause immediate damage. How to provide the opt-out option and still fund current retirees?
     
  5. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    We were discussing the principle of involuntary taxation. These issues above are beside that point. Taxing spending is just as involuntary as taxing income.

    As for what you did say... your point is to difficult to access. Like youre trying to make a point very obliquely or something.
     
  6. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    The proper adjective to use would be compulsory. You will pay a tax on something you buy unless you steal it. The option is to simply not obtain the product. With income, if you don't pay, then they're either going to dock your pay from your employer, or throw you in jail. That's the compulsion.

    Sorry for that. I feel that I am being very clear.
     
  7. Tiberius Lee

    Tiberius Lee Well-Known Member

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    what article?
     
  8. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    If you can go through life without buy anything and paying the accompanying taxes, then you can just as well get by without an income.

    So taxation on them is equally compulsory. The freedom to spend is no less real than the freedom to earn.
     
  9. RocksInMyHead

    RocksInMyHead God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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    ...and what happens if you steal it? You get fined or thrown in jail. That's the compulsion.

    Or you could take the option to not have an income - or to ensure that your income is low enough to not be subject to taxation. It can be done, just as you can choose not to purchase anything.
     
  10. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    Yeah, you're compelled (or deterred) from stealing other people's things...that's a fine point to make in this conversation actually. :D

    Asked and answered. We have wives and children to support.
     
  11. 98cwitr

    98cwitr Lord forgive me Staff Member Red Team - Moderator Supporter

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    That would only be true if I had the resources to make everything I need. I don't, hence we have markets.

    Not equal at all. If all I decide to buy is food and gas for a month, my taxation is low; next month I could choose differently. I cannot do that with the taxation on my income while maintaining employment.
     
  12. durangodawood

    durangodawood Dis Member

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    Delaying your compulsion doesnt make it not-compulsion.

    I view participation in the marketplace as a freedom. Sounds like you dont.
     
  13. RocksInMyHead

    RocksInMyHead God is innocent; Noah built on a floodplain!

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    Better example: technically, you're supposed to pay local sales taxes on all online purchases. If the merchant doesn't collect them, you're supposed to report them on your taxes and pay the sales tax then. If you don't, you could be audited and suffer the same penalties as not paying enough income tax. To be fair, the chances of getting caught for it are pretty low, but it is an item on your tax forms.
     
  14. SimplyMe

    SimplyMe Senior Veteran

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    I personally don't have an issue with switching from an Income Tax to a VAT -- though there are other issues that come into play. First, I don't like the FAIR tax proposal, from the little I've seen. To begin with, the "rebate" bothers me as it will become a political "hot potato" -- I see it quickly becoming similar to "entitlements" today, that it will be branded as Welfare and we'll have plenty of politicians wanting to cut the benefits or completely remove them.

    I do tend to like the idea of a VAT rather than income tax. I like how it would encourage saving. OTOH, this is precisely one of the issues -- it would, at least for the short term, damage the US economy. We are very proudly a nation of "consumers" and our economy is built off the idea of spending. While encouraging savings will help the country long term; between politicians (who don't want to be responsible for "recession") and our corporate culture, who don't want to hurt their bottom line, I can't see this type of proposal ever being successful under our current political structure.
     
  15. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    Post 11 for starters. If you're really interested in discussing it I'll let you read through the rest of the thread to find the other examples.
     
  16. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    You could also move somewhere without a government if you don't like it. So lots of "freedom" to get away from taxes. I mean there are certain drawbacks, but hey, freedom (to have to hire a private security force, etc)!
     
  17. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    Does it also have the chart showing the income distribution of US taxpayers? Because if not, you're being misled by that link.
     
  18. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    It's easy - just lose a bunch of your parent's millions in suspicious real estate deals.
     
  19. KCfromNC

    KCfromNC Regular Member

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    Looks like the claim is people have to earn money, and thus taxing income is slavery. But people can live without spending that money, somehow, therefore sales taxes are fine.

    Doesn't make a lick of sense to me, but maybe someone else can figure it out.
     
  20. Clizby WampusCat

    Clizby WampusCat Well-Known Member

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    They did not say indoctrination but I see your point. I don't think this way but I do hear it a lot. I push back against unsubstantiated claims like this against education. People need more education not less. And if they want to go to college there are plenty of conservative leaning colleges to go to. If you taught actual skepticism and reasoning skills to your kids you would not have to worry about the so called indoctrination by universities.
     
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