Make Women Slaves Again

[Aldebaran]

They are not male or female (with the sole exception of Jesus in his incarnate state.) They are God.

Yes, but when God is referred to in the bible, He is referred to using masculine labels such as Father and Son.

 

[bekkilyn]

The thing is that you can’t have the son without the father and you can’t have the father without considering He made them in His image, male and female, from the beginning.

The Father is what counts.

The Son was not created by the Father. The Son IS God and the Son IS creator, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are not three different gods, but ONE God, who have always existed. The idea of the Son being created by the Father is the heresy of Arianism and is not a core belief of any denomination within traditional Christianity.

 

[jahel]

The 3 persons of the Trinity are co-equal. One is no more important than the other.

If you were to describe the Spirit’s relationship with the Father and Son in a single word it would be “procession.” While the Father is uncreated and the Son is eternally begotten of the Father, the Holy Spirit eternally proceeds from the Father and the Son.
How Is the Holy Spirit Different from the Father and the Son?

The Father rested, the Son finished and the Spirit is still at work. If it’s not from what was first established then it has not proceeded from the Father but is a progression away from that. I’m not going to argue semantics.

 

[bekkilyn]

Yes, but when God is referred to in the bible, He is referred to using masculine labels such as Father and Son.

Yes, but it is a mistake to use the insufficiency of human language to adequately describe God to pin a biological sex on God, and typically for the purpose of discriminating against other human beings.

 

[jahel]

The Son was not created by the Father. The Son IS God and the Son IS creator, along with the Father and the Holy Spirit. They are not three different gods, but ONE God, who have always existed. The idea of the Son being created by the Father is the heresy of Arianism and is not a core belief of any denomination within traditional Christianity.

The thing is that you can’t have the son without the father and you can’t have the father without considering He made them in His image, male and female, from the beginning.

The Father is what counts.

Not what I said.

 

[mkgal1]

The Father rested, the Son finished and the Spirit is still at work. If it’s not from what was first established then it has not proceeded from the Father but is a progression away from that. I’m not going to argue semantics.

It's more than just semantics. This issue was the main reason the First Council at Nicaea was formed:
Arianism: Heresy that Lead to Clarification of Trinitarian Doctrine

 

[jahel]

It's more than just semantics. This issue was the main reason the First Council at Nicaea was formed:
Arianism: Heresy that Lead to Clarification of Trinitarian Doctrine

... so where do you place the 3 persons of the trinity at this moment?

 

[mkgal1]

... so where do you place the 3 persons of the trinity at this moment?

I think if you wish to discuss the Trinity, it may be better to begin a new thread. I will leave that up to @bekkilyn but this seems off topic to me.

 

[bekkilyn]

... so where do you place the 3 persons of the trinity at this moment?

• The Father draws us toward himself. - John 5
  
  
• Christ the Word is the Light who enlightens us. - John 1
  
  
• The Spirit convicts us of sin - John 14-16
  

(Per some study notes I have on the topic from a theology class. Note that God is not limited to the above, but God in all three persons is very much active in our lives today.)

 

[bekkilyn]

I think if you wish to discuss the Trinity, it may be better to begin a new thread. I will leave that up to @bekkilyn but this seems off topic to me.

It's off topic, but I'm not too picky about a few explanatory posts. If it turns into too much additional discussion though, a separate thread would probably be a good idea.

 

[Aldebaran]

Yes, but it is a mistake to use the insufficiency of human language to adequately describe God to pin a biological sex on God, and typically for the purpose of discriminating against other human beings.

I wasn't doing either. I was simply pointing out what the bible says. I figure it is written the way it is, and God in the OT, and Jesus in the NT (along with the Apostles) used the terminology they did for a reason. God created man in His own image, and woman was created out of man. That's the way He chose to do it, and He did it for whatever reason He chose. I don't think we're discriminating against other human beings (women) by noticing this or discussing it.

 

[jahel]

• The Father draws us toward himself. - John 5
  
  
• Christ the Word is the Light who enlightens us. - John 1
  
  
• The Spirit convicts us of sin - John 14-16

(Per some study notes I have on the topic from a theology class. Note that God is not limited to the above, but God in all three persons is very much active in our lives today.)

The drawing of water and light to conviction of sin is still limited to the cross but omits what the Spirit does after conviction if one were to follow in the way of enlightenment. The Spirit doesn’t just convict but it also leads out of. The double aspect of the cross (which is really just dove single mindedness) but the eagle waits.

 

[bekkilyn]

I wasn't doing either. I was simply pointing out what the bible says. I figure it is written the way it is, and God in the OT, and Jesus in the NT (along with the Apostles) used the terminology they did for a reason. God created man in His own image, and woman was created out of man. That's the way He chose to do it, and He did it for whatever reason He chose. I don't think we're discriminating against other human beings (women) by noticing this or discussing it.

First, God created male AND female in his own image, and second, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make in pointing out gender terminology in a response to a post stating that the Trinity is co-equal. Please also remember that you are posting in the Egalitarian forum and that arguments against the full equality of men and women in Creation and in Redemption are off-topic for debate.

 

[bekkilyn]

The drawing of water and light to conviction of sin is still limited to the cross but omits what the Spirit does after conviction if one were to follow in the way of enlightenment. The Spirit doesn’t just convict but it also leads out of. The double aspect of the cross (which is really just dove single mindedness) but the eagle waits.

That's why I stated that God was not limited to the above statements. The Spirit does indeed do more than the conviction of sin (as do the other persons of God).

 

[Aldebaran]

First, God created male AND female in his own image, and second, I'm not sure what point you were trying to make in pointing out gender terminology in a response to a post stating that the Trinity is co-equal. Please also remember that you are posting in the Egalitarian forum and that arguments against the full equality of men and women in Creation and in Redemption are off-topic for debate.

It seems like there's not much to discuss then, so I'll bow out of this thread.

 

[Dave-W]

And yet none of the 3 are labeled as female. The Father and Son are male, and the Spirit is neutral.

In the Hebrew Scriptures God is called Father but almost every attribute listed is feminine. A good example is the Name El Shaddai. Shad is the Hebrew word for breast.

ETA: all of that is lacking from our English translations.

 

[JackRT]

Yes, but when God is referred to in the bible, He is referred to using masculine labels such as Father and Son.

Usually but not always.

 

[the last child]

Usually but not always.

I could just study Scripture for days. There is so much to learn! Thank you Dave!