Make Poverty History

[Treasure the Questions]

I have not told you what I believe on the matter of "preaching the gospel", so you can only make assumptions, ahab. I don't think it is appropriate to discuss the matter on a thread that is about tackling the roots of poverty and global social injustice, things which God has made clear that he abhors. It seems to me that Christians must share God's deep concern for those who suffer as a result of poverty and oppression and must speak out against the causes. This is all part and parcel of what it means to follow Christ.

Karin

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,



Well of course I have made an assumption because you haven’t answered a simply affirmation of the gospel , Acts 6

It seems to me that Christians must share God's deep concern for those who suffer as a result of poverty and oppression and must speak out against the causes. This is all part and parcel of what it means to follow Christ.

And once again I repeat that it seems that way to me as well, that’s why I support this initiative, but my point is that I supported it anyway through Tearfund before the politicians and pop stars got involved. But as you say it is only part and a part shared by politicians and pop stars. You just seem incredibly reluctant to acknowledge the other parts of what it means to be a Christian. This is important because the politics are complex, there is corruption and war and all kinds of things that are not of the Kingdom of God.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

It is obviously a burning issue for you, ahab, but perhaps you can respect the fact that I do not want to discuss it on this thread and I do not want this thread to go off on a tangent. It is not the topic of this thread.

Karin

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,

I can understand you dont want to 'discuss' it here as this isnt the place to discuss it, its not acknowledging Acts 6 that is extraordinary

nevertheless this is relevent in response to your OP proposal
Let's see everyone here at Christian Forums joining in to Make Poverty* History in 2005 and making life less miserable for millions in the developing world and safer for millions in the developed world.
not necessarily, there are some that are already involved in working against poverty through the Christains agencies that might not want to sign up to 'Make poverty history' as a secular lead campaign, but delighted that the Christian agencies they support have signed up.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

Well, that's their choice, but I find it extraodinary that any follower of Christ should not want to support all genuine efforts to reduce poverty.

K

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,

Well, that's their choice, but I find it extraodinary that any follower of Christ should not want to support all genuine efforts to reduce poverty.

Me too but I was referring to those that are and have been all along through a Christian agency. You now seem to be saying that a follower of Christ has to be someone who supports secular lead efforts rather than Christian ones, exactly the opposite of what I am saying.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

It's not a matter of either/or in my opinion. I should hope that followers of Christ would support all genuine attempts to reduce poverty and alleviate suffering whether by fellow Christians or non-Christians. I can't see that it makes any difference as far as poverty and suffering are concerned. I'm pretty sure God is pleased whoever does the work. I don't think he wants to prolong people's suffering just so a Chrsitian can use the occasion to preach. In fact I think the Good New Jesus proclaimed is good enough not to have to rely on poverty and suffering to get the message accross. Showing that we care and are willing to show are care with practical measures is a good witness to Christ at work in us, though.

I rejoice that Christian and non-Christian agencies and individuals are joining together to make a real effort to seriously reduce poverty in Africa and the rest of the developing world. Praise God that this should be happening, and I hope everyone here will support the effort and not just think of it as a missed opportunity to "preach the gospel". It is preaching the gospel! As St Francis said, "use words only when necessary", after all actions speak far louder than words.

Karin

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,

It's not a matter of either/or in my opinion.

Thats my point

I should hope that followers of Christ would support all genuine attempts to reduce poverty and alleviate suffering whether by fellow Christians or non-Christians.

Just the one point again, if you believe both then testify to both.

I can't see that it makes any difference as far as poverty and suffering are concerned. I'm pretty sure God is pleased whoever does the work. I don't think he wants to prolong people's suffering just so a Chrsitian can use the occasion to preach. In fact I think the Good New Jesus proclaimed is good enough not to have to rely on poverty and suffering to get the message accross. Showing that we care and are willing to show are care with practical measures is a good witness to Christ at work in us, though.

But when the Son of man comes will he find faith on earth. Luke 18
It is God who justifies, we are justified through faith, if death and famine cannot separate us from the love of God, Rom 8, then its Jesus that people need as well.
Romans 8 "Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword? As it is written: "For your sake we face death all day long;"
those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.

When I say that people need food for the stomach and the bread of life, you keep talking about food for the stomach. Why are we arguing when we are both so grateful for ‘making poverty history’ and all the work of our brothers and sisters in agencies, but man cannot live on bread alone but every word that comes from the mouth of God. People need food and Jesus, but they do need both.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

... people need food for the stomach and the bread of life... People need food and Jesus, but they do need both.

I agree, but Make Poverty History happens to be dealing with poverty and bread etc. Some of those involved in the initiative may feel the need to talk about Jesus a lot, some may feel their actions already speak volumes and do no more than respond to questions about the Lord they love and serve, others may only know that something/someone they cannot name compels them to do all they can to help those who suffer and wipe out poverty and as they do so they may encounter others who speak of the One who leads them to do the same. There are many ways the Spirit of God works his purposes through human beings who respond to him.

However, the topic of this thread is about the Make Poverty History initiative, so that is why I concentrate on discussing that here. No doubt Tearfund ask you to write to Tony Blair and campaign for Trade Justice, the wiping of Third World Debt and that our govt and the govts of the G7 and G8 nations will increase aid to the poorest nations of the world so that all may have free access to healthcare and education - and if they haven't done so they will do so over the next few months. I hope you'll feel able to do so.

Preaching the gospel, while important, does not have to be related to wiping out poverty. Wiping out poverty and realigning our lifestyles so that they do not exploit others or benefit from their oppression is living the gospel and lives that carry on Jesus' work may well "preach the gospel" to the people around us.

Remember many in Africa already have Jesus, it is bread that they lack.

Karin

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,

Preaching the gospel, while important, does not have to be related to wiping out poverty.

The great commission is preaching the gospel. We have to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ and to make disciples. If we are truly disciples we will help the poor and needy.

Remember many in Africa already have Jesus, it is bread that they lack.

Yes I agree, that was my point when I asked which nations God saw as developed. So if we turn our underdeveloped west to Jesus, as well, then the developed nations wont be starving. The underlying cause is greed.

 

[Treasure the Questions]

I agree that greed is the problem, or a large part of it.

I agree that if more people in the West were to take Jesus' call to live more simply that others might simply live (which sums a lot of his teaching up in a nutshell) then that would make an enormous difference and be a marvellous witness, but I think the best chance of that happening is by those who already believe setting a good example and showing that a simpler life-style is an attractive lifestyle, as well as communicating the message in a way that inspires people.

Karin

 

[ahab]

Hi Treasure the Questions,

I agree that if more people in the West were to take Jesus' call to live more simply that others might simply live (which sums a lot of his teaching up in a nutshell)

Does it? Any scripture you had in mind? I think if we try more to first seek the Kingdom and of His righteouness, the more He will provide what we need (not what we want)