Make America Great again?

[mathinspiration]

Why was America Great to being with? Was it because Christian ruled or white northern European ruled or white males did or was it only because of the grace of God? Why did Europe succeed to take over the world with imperialism because they were superior or more civilized or had better weapons or what? Babylon wasn't Christian or white. Either was Egypt or Persia or any of the rivals of Israel but they were great nations? Only Greece and Rome were but they weren't northern Europeans? China wasn't even near the Biblical areas but it was a genius. In North America, there were tribes like Incas and Mayas and Aztecs that developed sooner than some of northern European nations and they sacrifice their enemies like the Great Canaanite enemies of Israel.

 

[tampasteve]

Why did Europe succeed to take over the world with imperialism because they were superior or more civilized or had better weapons or what?

I HIGHLY recommend the book "Guns, Germs, and Steel: The Fates of Human Societies" If you would like to research this question. The book is well thought out and presents the case in a non-ethnocentric way. Essentially it distills down to that the Europeans happened to be ascendant in the right time with the right technology, combination of domestic animals and diseases, and in the right place, it has nothing to do with skin color, or mental capacity of any particular group of people.
https://www.amazon.com/Guns-Germs-S...15785800&sr=8-1&keywords=guns+germs+and+steel

 

[JackRT]

Why was America Great to being with? Was it because Christian ruled or white northern European ruled or white males did or was it only because of the grace of God? Why did Europe succeed to take over the world with imperialism because they were superior or more civilized or had better weapons or what? Babylon wasn't Christian or white. Either was Egypt or Persia or any of the rivals of Israel but they were great nations? Only Greece and Rome were but they weren't northern Europeans? China wasn't even near the Biblical areas but it was a genius. In North America, there were tribes like Incas and Mayas and Aztecs that developed sooner than some of northern European nations and they sacrifice their enemies like the Great Canaanite enemies of Israel.

Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond takes on these questions. Well, without addressing any moral or religious aspects.

 

[Monna]

Why was America Great to being with?

In what way was/is America "great?" "Great" is a comparative word and has synonyms like "big," "good," "powerful," "famous," "rich." And I guess that in the context of this thread "America" refers to the USA. Canada and Russia are both greater than USA in size; India and China are far greater in population - in fact China has more middle class citizens than the entire population of the USA. Several countries are greater at giving aid to less developed nations in terms of percentage of GNP. Is it "great" to be the nation with the largest per capita environmental footprint on earth? Are economic and military power the only measures of "greatness" in our minds?

and in whose eyes?... the original inhabitants? the european colonizers? the slaves of African origin?

And when did "America" become "America?"

What would the divine perspective be? I wonder, as a Christian, and a citizen of the kingdom of God, why we are so quick to adapt to the values of "the world" (I do it too), i.e in terms of power and material wealth. Shouldn't we think differently, and have a different perspective?

Don't take offense ... I think we constantly need to evaluate the words we use, and the different meanings they can have for others.

 

[dreadnought]

Why was America Great to being with? Was it because Christian ruled or white northern European ruled or white males did or was it only because of the grace of God? Why did Europe succeed to take over the world with imperialism because they were superior or more civilized or had better weapons or what? Babylon wasn't Christian or white. Either was Egypt or Persia or any of the rivals of Israel but they were great nations? Only Greece and Rome were but they weren't northern Europeans? China wasn't even near the Biblical areas but it was a genius. In North America, there were tribes like Incas and Mayas and Aztecs that developed sooner than some of northern European nations and they sacrifice their enemies like the Great Canaanite enemies of Israel.

What would make America great would be to espouse the virtues spelled out by the Lord.

 

[God bless Joshua]

In what way was/is America "great?"

Surely getting greater and greater every second:
U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time

 

[BryanJohnMaloney]

As has been pointed out what is this "Great"? Likewise, since there is an "again" involved, WHEN was America "Great"? What was the specific time?

 

[Bob Crowley]

God raises up kingdoms and powers for a purpose, and He lets them fall too.

There was a time, not so long ago in terms of world history, when the British had an empire on which the sun never set. These days they're more likely to joke it never rises.

I read a quote somewhere in which GK Chesterton, the Catholic apologist, was taking issue with Queen Victoria's presentation of a Bible to an Afghan chieftan with the words, "This is the secret of England's greatness" (or something like that). Chesterton was saying he could hardly think of anything more confusing to an Afghan chieftan than to be given a book by a dominant Western power which was largely made up of ancient Semitic folklore.

Well, British "greatness" has diminished somewhat since then, never having conquered the Afghans for a start, while Afghanistan and her chieftans have become embroiled in a confrontation with the newest superpower, the USA.

The US role of "Greatness" has largely come about since World War II. Europe had been largely destroyed, and the US and the Soviet Union were left as the two main protagonists in a new world. The US won that battle, but now faces competition from China and Russia in the military sense, and is embroiled in a Middle Eastern quagmire, with fundamentalist Islam as the spearpoint.

What is clear is that God doesn't intend to allow the world to find peace on its own terms. For example, if we start circa 1900, the Europeans were rather cocky as the colonial masters of the world, and there was a fair degree of free thinking hubris in evidence. Then came World War I, and the Europeans bled themselves dry in France and Belgium. Twenty million dead young men later, there came the short 1920's of prosperity (for some anyway), but that crashed into the Great Depression.

Just as that was finishing, along came World War II. Fifty million dead later, 12 million of them in concentration camps (approximately equal numbers of Jews and everybody else), there was "peace". Then came the Cold War, nuclear MAD, and wars in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and any number of brush-fires in other places. India and Pakistan fought three wars, and decided to arm themselves with nuclear weaponry. Israel and the Arabs fought three wars, and the Jews decided to arm themselves with nuclear armory. China and India fought a war, and they both decided to arm themselves with nuclear weaponry.

Then the Cold War ended, and Bush Senior declared "a new world order" had arrived.

Then Bin Laden's crew flew airliners into the World Trade Towers. This led in turn to war in Afghanistan and Iraq (ironically Saddam Hussein had nothing to do with Al Quaeda).

It seems no matter what we do, God and the devil are determined to make sure that we never find peace on earth. The system has been set up in such a way that nothing lasts.

So sooner or later, US "greatness" will diminish and possibly even disappear. Personally I think God intends to drive us off the planet, and that will be a whole new ball game again. If that's due in part to the fact we've destroyed earth's viability with nuclear weaponry, then we might by then learn that wars gain nothing.

But we'll also find that we've wrecked the best of all possible worlds in this universe.

Through our own greed and stupidity. And God won't fix it either - His attitude will be "You made your bed. You lie in it!"

 

[JackRT]

And God won't fix it either - His attitude will be "You made your bed. You lie in it!"

I think that has been God's attitude since Eden. I do not believe that God raises up or destroys leaders or nations --- that is entirely man's doing.

 

[Bob Crowley]

I think that has been God's attitude since Eden. I do not believe that God raises up or destroys leaders or nations --- that is entirely man's doing.

I think they are involved. If I wanted to take a Satanic example, I'd have to look at the way Adolf Hitler survived so many assassination attempts, even the one featuring von Stauffenberg et al. I get a distinct sense he was protected, and certainly not for the betterment of mankind.

List of assassination attempts on Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia
20 July plot - Wikipedia

Then there was the Battle of Midway, which turned around the tide of warfare in the Pacific barely 6 months after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour. It could easily have gone the other way, but the singular event that led to the sinking of the Japanese carriers so quickly was a solitary Japanese destroyer which had been sent to check out a suspected submarine sighting.

Having done it's duty, it had turned around and was playing catch-up to the main fleet. It was this solitary pointer that was spotted by the American flyer C. Wade McClusky, through the clouds at that, and which led the American bombers to the Japanese fleet., with fuel already running low. The American torpedo bombers which preceded the dive bombers had already been destroyed, and nearly all their crews with them.

FIve minutes later the entire tide of the Pacific War turned. You might call it coincidence, but I think God had a very subtle hand in the process.

I remember an American sailor saying he thought there was a divine hand in the process.

 

[JackRT]

Div

I think they are involved. If I wanted to take a Satanic example, I'd have to look at the way Adolf Hitler survived so many assassination attempts, even the one featuring von Stauffenberg et al. I get a distinct sense he was protected, and certainly not for the betterment of mankind.

List of assassination attempts on Adolf Hitler - Wikipedia
20 July plot - Wikipedia

Then there was the Battle of Midway, which turned around the tide of warfare in the Pacific barely 6 months after the Japanese bombed Pearl Harbour. It could easily have gone the other way, but the singular event that led to the sinking of the Japanese carriers so quickly was a solitary Japanese destroyer which had been sent to check out a suspected submarine sighting.

Having done it's duty, it had turned around and was playing catch-up to the main fleet. It was this solitary pointer that was spotted by the American flyer C. Wade McClusky, through the clouds at that, and which led the American bombers to the Japanese fleet., with fuel already running low. The American torpedo bombers which preceded the dive bombers had already been destroyed, and nearly all their crews with them.

FIve minutes later the entire tide of the Pacific War turned. You might call it coincidence, but I think God had a very subtle hand in the process.

I remember an American sailor saying he thought there was a divine hand in the process.

Divine intervention has been credited with many victories whether they be for good or evil. For example, in 1281 Kublai Khan assembled a massive fleet and army to invade Japan. When the fleet was about to land it was destroyed by a typhoon. The Japanese named it "Kamikaze" --- the divine wind.

 

[Bob Crowley]

Divine intervention has been credited with many victories whether they be for good or evil. For example, in 1281 Kublai Khan assembled a massive fleet and army to invade Japan. When the fleet was about to land it was destroyed by a typhoon. The Japanese named it "Kamikaze" --- the divine wind.

And you wouldn't know if the Divine Hand was involved or not. The British claimed a similar delivery from the Spanish Fleet during Elizabethan times.

I'll stick my neck out and say why I believe God (and the devil) can interfere when it suits them, based on personal experience.

I've had three "double whammies" in my own experiences - like a breath going through you in waves from head to foot. The first happened at a Scripture Union Beach Mission (when I was still Protestant and a new Christian, with personal problems) at Christmas 1983. It was used to highlight the exact words "... a man after my own heart ..." being read out by the camp leader from the Bible, and that's precisely what it did. I got such a shock I nearly fell off the seat. Yet when I looked around at the other camp participants to see what they made of it, they were showing no sign of anything untoward, for the simple reason it hadn't happened to them. So unless I told someone about it, the only person who knew about it was me. God remained hidden as He usually does.

When I spoke to my pastor about this when I was back in the church I usually attended a couple of weeks later, he said "I think God just wanted to encourage you. He know you had been going through a difficult time, and wanted to give you some encouragement".

The second time was in church sometime later, and this time it highlighted the words "... a little man of great insight and wisdom ... " referring to St. Paul. I won't go into the story, bu those were the exact words. The third and last occasion was in church again, probably a few months later, and this time it was "... an intellectual ministry that went around the world ..." referring to CS Lewis, one time atheist free thinker who became possibly the greatest 20th century Christian apologist.

And it hasn't happened since. Now we move about two million kilometres an hour through the universe, due to the earth's spin, orbit around the sun, the sun around the Milky Way, the Milky Way around the universe, and the universe itself spinning. So in a few months we move a very long way through interstellar space. Yet the one who contacted me on those three occasions knew precisely where to find me (sitting on a chair on one occasion, and on a pew on the other two), what was about to be said, and how to highlight the relevant phrases and those phrases only, billions of kilometres apart in spacial terms. And no-one else knew unless I told them.

I've heard hundreds of homilies and sermons since I became a Christian, probably close to two thousand, and I've forgotten most of them, like most other Christians if they're honest. But I remember those three phrases because, and only because, of what happened when they were spoken, years ago now.

So I have no trouble believing that God (and the devil) do sometimes interfere in our world. But it's so subtle that most of the time we don't know it, and if we do realise it, it's usually only with hindsight. And even then, we can't prove it to others. All we can do is provide a personal anecdote, which they may or may not believe.

 

[Johnsloan]

America was never great. The people who built washington are satanists. America murderd the natives, America persecuted many many races and nations. America hid in world war one making money. America destroyed Saddam for money. libya for money somalia for money. afgan for money and currently tried to destroy syria for money. But God bless Putin the lovely Christian man. Who speaks openly about his faith.
And also wants to destroy North Korea. Which they done already. America have only been at peace for 17 years of its intire history. Nothing great about America. America never is a war mongering country run by satanists. America was never great ever.

 

[Resha Caner]

I do not believe that God raises up or destroys leaders or nations --- that is entirely man's doing.

Even when the Bible says ... oh, wait, forgot who I was taking to.

 

[Resha Caner]

America was never great. The people who built washington are satanists. America murderd the natives, America persecuted many many races and nations. America hid in world war one making money. America destroyed Saddam for money. libya for money somalia for money. afgan for money and currently tried to destroy syria for money. But God bless Putin the lovely Christian man. Who speaks openly about his faith.
And also wants to destroy North Korea. Which they done already. America have only been at peace for 17 years of its intire history. Nothing great about America. America never is a war mongering country run by satanists. America was never great ever.

Aren't you the cheery one.

 

[grasping the after wind]

America was never great. The people who built washington are satanists. America murderd the natives, America persecuted many many races and nations. America hid in world war one making money. America destroyed Saddam for money. libya for money somalia for money. afgan for money and currently tried to destroy syria for money. But God bless Putin the lovely Christian man. Who speaks openly about his faith.
And also wants to destroy North Korea. Which they done already. America have only been at peace for 17 years of its intire history. Nothing great about America. America never is a war mongering country run by satanists. America was never great ever.

If America did that for money when do we get that money? We have this huge debt we incurred in the process of doing all these things so payment would be appreciated.

 

[Johnsloan]

Aren't you the cheery one.

Its either true or its not. I am afraid to say its true. |I am very cheery thank you.

 

[Johnsloan]

If America did that for money when do we get that money? We have this huge debt we incurred in the process of doing all these things so payment would be appreciated.

Nah I think you spent your money building basis all round the world . Its just an elabrerate way for the elietes to steal your tax dollers. Russia just over took your army and defences, by spending 60 Billion. America just spent 800 billion. So that were you money is going.
Do you find it hard to believe Russia over took you so cheaply.

Wonder if your being robbed. But the people you vote in. They got the mony you paid it.

 

[Resha Caner]

Its either true or its not. I am afraid to say its true. |I am very cheery thank you.

I doubt you have anything to support what you said. But please explain. Why am I a satanist?

 

[Johnsloan]

I doubt you have anything to support what you said. But please explain. Why am I a satanist?

I doubt you have anything to support what you said. But please explain. Where I said your satanist?