Majority of White Americans Say They Believe Whites Face Discrimination

[Ringo84]

Name one single black American who can say they have been discriminated against for several centuries.

Martin Luther King Jr.
Ringo

 

[iluvatar5150]

Name one single black American who can say they have been discriminated against for several centuries.

FYI: That's a really stupid point you're trying to make, and it makes everybody else thing you're being disingenuous.

 

[SilverBear]

What evidence would you accept? .

Obviously, none.

 

[SummerMadness]

FYI: That's a really stupid point you're trying to make, and it makes everybody else thing you're being disingenuous.

A bit more than disingenuous.

 

[jayem]

I'm a 66 year old white, male, heterosexual, Southern-born American of European ancestry. I can say with complete honesty that never in my life, have I felt discriminated against in education, employment, housing, etc., because of my race, ethnicity, or other personal characteristic. From my perspective, the idea is preposterous.

 

[com7fy8]

I am referring to the fact that having a "black-sounding" name results in fewer callbacks for employment despite the same credentials. If it were a meritocracy, the name would not affect employment opportunity.

So, why not have a "blind" application with no name or race provided . . . and no age?

I personally would not want to work for someone who is a bigot. Even so, in a big company, the screener might be a bigot I would never have to deal with, and the boss and workers could be really loving people, for all I know.

I'm not convinced that white americans have it even close to worst.

The thing is, though, that one only really sees the discrimination that they themselves and their close friends experience, so perception of discrimination is skewed.

And don't any of us have some tendency to discriminate in favor of our own selves?

If the majority were blacks or Hispanics or Asians, and the whites had the slavery history and other minority factors . . . would humans be doing things any differently? In Africa we see very deadly and cruel discrimination, including ethnic cleansing, of blacks against blacks. Plus, there are blacks and whites who can be horrible about beauty discrimination, picking and choosing who is popular and lovable mainly because of what someone looks like.

So, there is such equality, of capability of discrimination, which ones do not bring to our attention. As much as any of us do not know how to love, any of us can discriminate, in one way or another; and changing policies is not going to change our hearts.

 

[iluvatar5150]

So, why not have a "blind" application with no name or race provided . . . and no age?

When orchestras started using blind (and barefoot) auditions, the representation of women in orchestras went way up.

Nobody ever puts their age on a resume, but even so, it's tough to hide. It doesn't take much to look at a work history and get a ballpark idea of how old someone is. For example, if they were working on the Y2K fix, they're at least 40.

 

[MoonlessNight]

FYI: That's a really stupid point you're trying to make, and it makes everybody else thing you're being disingenuous.

The trouble is that if you want to say that someone has experienced "centuries of discrimination" through his ancestors, there are people who have experienced far worse than what American blacks did. Arguably the native peoples of America. Certainly the Armenians under the Turks. Or if we want to go way, way, back the Helots suffered under the Spartans about as bad as any people ever has.

And that's just racial discrimination. If we throw religious persecution into our discussion as well, I'd be surprised if there isn't anyone who, through their ancestors, hasn't experienced centuries of discrimination. And the horrors of many of these persecutions are difficult to imagine, indeed I'd probably be banned for violation of the vulgarity rule if I just described a handful of the worst examples of tortures placed on faithful Catholics alone.

 

[Aldebaran]

Martin Luther King Jr.
Ringo

He was several centuries old? He sure looked good for being at least 300 years old.

 

[Aldebaran]

FYI: That's a really stupid point you're trying to make, and it makes everybody else thing you're being disingenuous.

Actually, any black person who thinks they are owed something today based on the idea that black people who lived centuries ago suffered discrimination is disingenuous.

 

[iluvatar5150]

The trouble is that if you want to say that someone has experienced "centuries of discrimination" through his ancestors, there are people who have experienced far worse than what American blacks did. Arguably the native peoples of America. Certainly the Armenians under the Turks. Or if we want to go way, way, back the Helots suffered under the Spartans about as bad as any people ever has.

And that's just racial discrimination. If we throw religious persecution into our discussion as well, I'd be surprised if there isn't anyone who, through their ancestors, hasn't experienced centuries of discrimination. And the horrors of many of these persecutions are difficult to imagine, indeed I'd probably be banned for violation of the vulgarity rule if I just described a handful of the worst examples of tortures placed on faithful Catholics alone.

Yeah, except not all of those examples are recent and not all of them are ongoing. The argument was not that blacks experienced a few centuries worth of discrimination at some point in their history - the argument was that blacks have experienced discrimination for the last few, most recent centuries. There's a big difference between living under a long-running system of oppression, and having lived under one but come out of it several hundred years ago.

That's not to say that none of those examples are current - I don't personally know enough about the current plight of native americans to have much of an opinion one way or another, but I know that much of their subjugation occurred along side that of African Americans and I don't think you'd find many people sympathetic to the plight of blacks who wouldn't also say that natives got a raw deal, too.

So, I don't know why any of this would be "trouble". Whites have never been subject to the sort of systematic race-based abuse and discrimination in this country the way minority groups have. The fact that blacks don't have a monopoly on victimization doesn't mean they weren't/aren't victims.

 

[SummerMadness]

The trouble is that if you want to say that someone has experienced "centuries of discrimination" through his ancestors, there are people who have experienced far worse than what American blacks did. Arguably the native peoples of America. Certainly the Armenians under the Turks. Or if we want to go way, way, back the Helots suffered under the Spartans about as bad as any people ever has.

And that's just racial discrimination. If we throw religious persecution into our discussion as well, I'd be surprised if there isn't anyone who, through their ancestors, hasn't experienced centuries of discrimination. And the horrors of many of these persecutions are difficult to imagine, indeed I'd probably be banned for violation of the vulgarity rule if I just described a handful of the worst examples of tortures placed on faithful Catholics alone.

Where is that poster to crow about the "not as bad as" fallacy? Shouldn't you be complaining about the white people in this thread rather than focus on African Americans?

And let's not pretend that you need to directly experience racial discrimination to be affected by racial discrimination. If you take away people's ability to gain and pass on their wealth, you affect future generations, as was the case of the Greenwood neighborhood in Tulsa, OK (Black Wall Street).

 

[iluvatar5150]

Actually, any black person who thinks they are owed something today based on the idea that black people who lived centuries ago suffered discrimination is disingenuous.

If discrimination against blacks ended with the confederacy, then maybe you'd have a point. But it didn't. A wide variety of discriminatory practices were outlawed less than 60 years ago. My parents were in high school when the Fair Housing Act was passed. And as we all know, banning something doesn't immediately make it go away.

 

[Aldebaran]

And that's just racial discrimination. If we throw religious persecution into our discussion as well, I'd be surprised if there isn't anyone who, through their ancestors, hasn't experienced centuries of discrimination. And the horrors of many of these persecutions are difficult to imagine, indeed I'd probably be banned for violation of the vulgarity rule if I just described a handful of the worst examples of tortures placed on faithful Catholics alone.

You make a good point here (as usual!). Any Christian living today could say that they're owed the ability to get favorable treatment based on the fact of 2 centuries of persecution of the Christian church. I wonder what Rome should give us in reparation for what they did to Christians 2,000 years ago. What would be considered "social justice"?

 

[Aldebaran]

If discrimination against blacks ended with the confederacy, then maybe you'd have a point. But it didn't. A wide variety of discriminatory practices were outlawed less than 60 years ago. My parents were in high school when the Fair Housing Act was passed. And as we all know, banning something doesn't immediately make it go away.

Neither does twice electing a black president, apparently. In the minds of some, nothing will ever be good enough.

 

[Aldebaran]

Where is that poster to crow about the "not as bad as" fallacy? Shouldn't you be complaining about the white people in this thread rather than focus on African Americans?

And let's not pretend that you need to directly experience racial discrimination to be affected by racial discrimination. If you take away people's ability to gain and pass on their wealth, you affect future generations, as was the case of the Greenwood neighborhood in Tulsa, OK (Black Wall Street).

The year was 1921. Almost a hundred years ago. What is it a justification for in the context of this thread?

 

[iluvatar5150]

Neither does twice electing a black president, apparently. In the minds of some, nothing will ever be good enough.

I know, right? I went to the gym and ate a salad last week, but now my doctor wants me to do that again. I took out the trash and did the dishes last week, but now my wife wants me to do them again, AND she wants me to make the bed AND vacuum. It's never good enough!

Yours is the kind of excuse used by a person who's lazy, has exceptionally low standards, or just doesn't want to address the problem. No, electing a black man to the presidency isn't sufficient. Why would you think that would be enough to solve the problem of discrimination against an entire race of people?

 

[Aldebaran]

I know, right? I went to the gym and ate a salad last week, but now my doctor wants me to do that again. I took out the trash and did the dishes last week, but now my wife wants me to do them again, AND she wants me to make the bed AND vacuum. It's never good enough!

Yours is the kind of excuse used by a person who's lazy, has exceptionally low standards, or just doesn't want to address the problem. No, electing a black man to the presidency isn't sufficient. Why would you think that would be enough to solve the problem of discrimination against an entire race of people?

At least I'm not comparing black people to going to the gym, eating a salad and taking out trash.

 

[iluvatar5150]

At least I'm not comparing black people to going to the gym, eating a salad and taking out trash.

You're right, you're not. That was an attempt at humor to show how ridiculous your position is. What you're doing is far more insidious. You're trying to ignore the ~150 years of discrimination since the civil war and pretend that one guy getting one job somehow invalidates the negative outcomes experienced by the millions of people impacted by that discrimination.

 

[Landon Caeli]

Martin Luther King Jr.
Ringo

I don't think he can say anything.