Majority of White Americans Say They Believe Whites Face Discrimination

[samir]

No it doesn't, but that fiction is what accounts for the findings in this survey. I'm guessing Abigail Fisher didn't get into UT Austin because she was white...

There have been numerous occurrences of clear discrimination against white people. A few years ago a white applicant who scored 100% on a test didn't get the job due to someone else scoring 105% due to getting 10 bonus points for not having white skin.

The whole point of affirmative action and racial quotes is to discriminate against white people to counter the effect of earlier discrimination against black people. I don't think there is another way to do it.

 

[Rion]

Of course whites face discrimination.

Everyone faces discrimination, no matter their gender, their race, their sexual preference, their favorite pet, everyone is discriminated against in matters small and big, from insignificant comments to life-changing opportunities being denied.

The only thing that's debatable is how much discrimination one faces relativ to other people, and I'm not convinced that white americans have it even close to worst.

The thing is, though, that one only really sees the discrimination that they themselves and their close friends experience, so perception of discrimination is skewed.

The problem isn't that whites face the most discrimination. The problem is that behavior that would be deemed racist when directed at any other group is often defended when directed at white people.

Former Sanders Spokeswoman: "We Don't Need White People Leading The Democratic Party"

Safe Spaces Segregate the Claremont Colleges | The Claremont Independent

http://calgaryherald.com/news/crime...te-woman-but-its-not-a-hate-crime-judge-rules

http://www.businessinsider.com/github-the-full-inside-story-2016-2

http://kfor.com/2016/10/14/to-be-white-is-to-be-racist-norman-student-offended-by-teachers-lecture/

http://www.dailywire.com/news/1576/black-student-threatened-execute-16-white-students-pardes-seleh#

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/aug/24/state-university-hosts-stop-white-people-training-/

http://archive.is/97FMV

http://archive.is/WCbbH

Now, there's plenty more, but you get the gist. Now, I'm not saying that I don't want people saying those things, I'm pretty open about allowing freedom of speech (except the ones where they were threatening specific violence or committed it, obviously), but replace any of those instances with "Black" "Jewish" "Hispanic" or whatever, instead of white, and none of those things would have seen the light of day.

This crap doesn't even offend me, it just makes me sad when people who claim to be against racism excuse or support it. Five years ago I was saying that tolerating this sort of behavior would likely cause the white nationalist movement to gain energy, and look at what we're experiencing now. If you search for the titles of a lot of these pieces, you'll discover many get posted to white supremacist sites.

Identity politics is bigoted on a fundamental level, and tolerating it from any group is going to create a push back from every other identitarian group.

 

[Rion]

DP

 

[iluvatar5150]

I can't think of any groups that have suffered more discrimination than the two you mentioned.

Think harder.

A few years ago a white applicant who scored 100% on a test didn't get the job due to someone else scoring 105% due to getting 10 bonus points for not having white skin.

Sounds apocryphal. Got a link?

 

[MoonlessNight]

The most specific forms they refer to are discrimination in favor of non-whites in things like college admissions and job hiring and promotion. So unless affirmative action and corporate "diversity initiatives" have stopped being a thing, maybe there's something there.

It's becoming standard for certain groups to be "encouraged to apply" to job applications.

Some examples in mathematics positions:

Protected veterans, minorities and women are encouraged to apply.

encourages women, persons of color, and persons with disabilities to apply.

The School is committed to recruiting and retaining students and faculty from groups that have historically been underrepresented in the sciences.

The University encourages applications from historically under-represented individuals, women, veterans, and persons with disabilities and is an AA/EEO Employer.

And that's without getting into statements that institutions are affirmative action or that their actions are based on a "commitment to diversity."

 

[SummerMadness]

It's becoming standard for certain groups to be "encouraged to apply" to job applications.

Some examples in mathematics positions:

Protected veterans, minorities and women are encouraged to apply.

encourages women, persons of color, and persons with disabilities to apply.

The School is committed to recruiting and retaining students and faculty from groups that have historically been underrepresented in the sciences.

The University encourages applications from historically under-represented individuals, women, veterans, and persons with disabilities and is an AA/EEO Employer.

And that's without getting into statements that institutions are affirmative action or that their actions are based on a "commitment to diversity."

Encouragement to apply to positions and a stated commitment to increasing underrepresented groups is not discrimination.

Meanwhile, this is discrimination:

How Black Americans See Discrimination

One of the paradoxes of racial discrimination is the way it can remain obscured even to the people to whom it's happening. Here's an example: In an ambitious, novel study conducted by the Urban Institute a few years ago, researchers sent actors with similar financial credentials to the same real estate or rental offices to ask about buying or renting a home or apartment. In the end, no matter where they were sent, the actors of color were shown fewer homes and offered fewer discounts on rent or mortgages than those who were white.

The results even surprised some of the actors of color; they felt they had been treated politely — even warmly — by the very real estate agents who told them they had no properties available to show them but who then told the white actors something different. The full scope of the disparate treatment often becomes clear only in the aggregate, once the camera zooms out.

And yet obscured as the picture may be, black Americans take the existence of discrimination as a fact of life.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Encouragement to apply to positions and commitment to increasing underrepresented groups is not discrimination.

In other news, freedom is slavery.

Look, you may think that specifically targeting certain groups to apply and announcing commitment to hiring from "underrepresented" groups is justified discrimination, but it's blatantly a form of discrimination under any sane definition of the word. The only way that you can avoid it is if you employ some garbage definition that automatically excludes certain groups from possibly being discriminated against.

 

[BigDaddy4]

No it doesn't, but that fiction is what accounts for the findings in this survey. I'm guessing Abigail Fisher didn't get into UT Austin because she was white...

Affirmitive action does discriminate against whites. In my case, white males. Twice personally - once to an Asian female and once to a black male. For diversity's sake, confirmed by members of the interview team I spoke with after.

Also, a white female co-worker applied for an "open interview" position a few years ago. She has a darker complexion. She filled out the application form and was told someone would be with her shortly. An hour and two interviewees later (who had come in after her), she inquired how much longer it would be. She was told "Oh sorry, we thought you were Hispanic by your complexion, so we had you fill out the paperwork, but it says you are caucasion. We're only hiring minorities."

So go ahead and think it's ficticious if you want...

 

[SummerMadness]

Affirmitive action does discriminate against whites. In my case, white males. Twice personally - once to an Asian female and once to a black male. For diversity's sake, confirmed by members of the interview team I spoke with after.

Also, a white female co-worker applied for an "open interview" position a few years ago. She has a darker complexion. She filled out the application form and was told someone would be with her shortly. An hour and two interviewees later (who had come in after her), she inquired how much longer it would be. She was told "Oh sorry, we thought you were Hispanic by your complexion, so we had you fill out the paperwork, but it says you are caucasion. We're only hiring minorities."

So go ahead and think it's ficticious if you want...

Ah, the ever present story of white applicants being directly told they cannot get a job because they are white. Too bad there is no one out there looking to bankroll a clear cut case of racial discrimination against white people... I guess they'll just have to settle on the weak case by Abigail Fisher because no one is willing to step forward and sue for being told they can't have a job because they're white.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Ah, the ever present story of white applicants being directly told they cannot get a job because they are white. Too bad there is no one out there looking to bankroll a clear cut case of racial discrimination against white people... I guess they'll just have to settle on the weak case by Abigail Fisher because no one is willing to step forward and sue for being told they can't have a job because they're white.

Care to give me an explicit definition of discrimination, so that we can know if you are using a sane one or an intrinsically dishonest one?

 

[SummerMadness]

In other news, freedom is slavery.

Look, you may think that specifically targeting certain groups to apply and announcing commitment to hiring from "underrepresented" groups is justified discrimination, but it's blatantly a form of discrimination under any sane definition of the word. The only way that you can avoid it is if you employ some garbage definition that automatically excludes certain groups from possibly being discriminated against.

It's not discrimination, you can keep trying to argue that it's discrimination, but I think people will continue to focus on actual discrimination.

New Study Confirms Depressing Truth About Names And Racial Bias

Students with stereotypically “black”-sounding names tend to be labeled as troublemakers by teachers. Job applicants with such names are less likely than their white-sounding counterparts to get called in for interviews. When residents with “black”-sounding names contact their local government for information about schools or libraries, they are less likely to receive a response.

Adding to this troubling compendium of results is a disturbing new study, published Thursday in the journal Evolution and Human Behavior. The study of mostly white participants shows that men with black-sounding names are more likely to be imagined as physically large, dangerous and violent than those with stereotypically white-sounding names.

 

[SummerMadness]

Care to give me an explicit definition of discrimination, so that we can know if you are using a sane one or an intrinsically dishonest one?

You're the one arguing legal discrimination, not me. How was Abigail Fisher discriminated against because she was white?

 

[MoonlessNight]

You're the one arguing legal discrimination, not me. How was Abigail Fisher discriminated against because she was white?

You've claimed at several points that certain actions are not discrimination. Clearly you have some definition of discrimination, or you would not be able to recognize what is and is not discrimination.

I can't see why anyone would want to discuss the issue at any further length with you if you aren't honest enough to simply fill us in on what definition of discrimination that you are using.

 

[SummerMadness]

You've claimed at several points that certain actions are not discrimination. Clearly you have some definition of discrimination, or you would not be able to recognize what is and is not discrimination.

I can't see why anyone would want to discuss the issue at any further length with you if you aren't honest enough to simply fill us in on what definition of discrimination that you are using.

Refer to the law. There's a reason Abigail Fisher lost her case. There's a reason why those job postings are not illegal.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Refer to the law. There's a reason Abigail Fisher lost her case. There's a reason why those job postings are not illegal.

That's three posts where you've refused to give a definition.

This should be trivial for you, since you discuss discrimination so much.

One might then almost think that the reason that you are refusing to give a definition is because you either know that your definition is not the one commonly used by posters here (and thus if you give it your cries of discrimination would be taken less seriously), or if you posted a definition you would actually need to stick to it (and thus would have a harder time declaring that things are or are not discrimination as your whims and prejudices strike you to do).

 

[SummerMadness]

Of course we can focus on actual discrimination...

Minorities Who 'Whiten' Resumes Get More Job Interviews

Minority job applicants are “whitening” their resumes by deleting references to their race with the hope of boosting their shot at jobs, and recent research shows the strategy is paying off.

In fact, companies are more than twice as likely to call minority applicants for interviews if they submit whitened resumes than candidates who reveal their race — and this discriminatory practice is just as strong for businesses that claim to value diversity as those that don’t.

 

[SummerMadness]

That's three posts where you've refused to give a definition.

This should be trivial for you, since you discuss discrimination so much.

One might then almost think that the reason that you are refusing to give a definition is because you either know that your definition is not the one commonly used by posters here (and thus if you give it your cries of discrimination would be taken less seriously), or if you posted a definition you would actually need to stick to it (and thus would have a harder time declaring that things are or are not discrimination as your whims and prejudices strike you to do).

Or you could simply refer to the law, not waste time trying to figure out what dictionary you want to use.

 

[Albion]

Majority of White Americans Say They Believe Whites Face Discrimination
You can talk about perception ("they seem to") and then look at the statistical studies, which demonstrates that notions of widespread discrimination against whites is not true.

I see that you had to qualify your denunciation with the word "widespread" which is open to all sorts of different interpretations. Apparently, it means that you are allowing that there has been some discrimination of this sort, and they, for their part, do have a point.

 

[MoonlessNight]

Or you could simply refer to the law, not waste time trying to figure out what dictionary you want to use.

You really are committed to not nailing yourself down to an explicit definition, aren't you?

I feel like I'm trying to convince a vampire to pick up a wreath of garlic.

But I guess having explicit definitions would cause me a similar aversion too if I lived my life through deceit and equivocation.

 

[SummerMadness]

You really are committed to not nailing yourself down to an explicit definition, aren't you?

I feel like I'm trying to convince a vampire to pick up a wreath of garlic.

But I guess having explicit definitions would cause me a similar aversion too if I lived my life through deceit and equivocation.

Why is it so difficult for you to refer to the law?

Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964: Equal Employment Opportunity - FindLaw