@DreamerOfTheHeart : That was a well-reasoned opening post. I agree with all of those points. I would also add a fifth point, which is that the Book of Revelation contains so many details that an Amillennial interpretation requires a mind-bending abundance of symbolism with which to explain it, because they take symbolically what the Premillennialists take literally. This, in itself, is not so important, if not for the fact that the interpretation of these symbols leads to further symbolism, giving us symbols of symbols. It's hard enough to accurately interpret symbolism, but when we have to interpret it on two orders of magnitude, the result is that we can make it mean whatever we want it to mean.
Premillennialism has its own problems, though. They're an entirely different sort, dealing in problematic chronology, logic and unlikely situations. That's why I'm currently undecided on the matter. It seems to me that each is better at disproving the other than they are at defending their own positions.
On the first part, there, yes, I agree, and that is a good explanation. It is a rat's nest, ultimately.
On the second part, I do believe there are problems with a number of pre-millenialist versions, but there are quite a number, even if one or two are the most widely spread today.
I do have to argue that one must be willing to believe in 'the impossible' being made possible, by God, in order to take my own view of pre-millennialism. Though, it is also true, one can just shove off many readings, as really, almost everyone must do, at this time, my own self included, as "I do not know".
The very reason I am posting on this subject, and arguing on it, is to elicit viewpoints from others, and to strengthen my own beliefs and findings on these matters. I want people to test my own viewpoints in these matters.
There are degrees of sureness, of confidence, in the matters we weigh. This is certainly true with the matters of eschatology, and that is okay. I think, what is not okay, is when we side with matters where we are putting aside our capacity to reason, to rightly weigh what information we have, to forego this entire process.
For me, the pre-millenialist viewpoint is, by far, the weightiest, at this time, and I have largely leaned in this direction since the first time I picked up the book as a teenager. But, I have and still do, heavily entertain the possibilities of other viewpoints.
I view all of Revelation as happening in chronological order, and would point out, a lot of effort was put towards this: there are the breaking of the seven seals, the seven trumpets, the three woes, the seven vials of the seven angels, and so on. One can continue well making these arguments, of how precisely one set of ordering is kept in order, after another. It is a work of the finest clockmaker.
3 is not put before 2 or 1, the 7th is not put before the 6th, and so on. But, this does not necessarily rule out amillennialism, however, the ordering does rule it out, in other ways.
This also does not mean the Beast, the False Prophet, and 'Babylon' were not existing all along.
The single biggest stumbling block to pre-millenialism - besides the particular flavors of some of the popular doctrines today - is not in Revelation 11, but in Revelation 12.
Granted, everyone has their own biggest stumbling blocks to it, but for those who keep an open mind and try to keep their heads on, to try and keep thinking and reasoning (I am most certainly reminded the read here of the 'beheading' in Revelation 20): That would be the single biggest stumbling block.
I won't get into 'what' specifically, that stumbling block is, as you should feel free to think about this and respond your guesses.
The other biggest stumbling block has to be the nature of the thousand years, and the nature of the rule of 'Christ and the saints'. However, in that regards, the amillennialists believe they reign in spirit with Christ on earth, so why can they not afford that possibility to the pre-millenialist viewpoint?
After all, they do not believe the Seventh Trumpet has sounded, so how can they argue that they reign on earth, when that very Trumpet related verse in Revelation states that the kingdom of the world does not become the kingdom of Christ until after it has sounded?
People want to believe that they are already reigning with Christ, on earth, when they believe in amillennialism.
I am stating, something happens with the two witnesses, and their ascension to Heaven of such importance, so that the Seventh Trumpet is sounded.
This might be another stumbling block for people in what I am arguing: I am also arguing that, like the vials and the woes, the Trumpet being sounded is of the very same nature, and that is, it is loud and it is long. Just as a trumpet is in real life, only it is louder and it is longer, being from the very Archangel, the Angel of the Lord.
This does not mean I believe the Lord does not begin the reign, at this time, as I believe that Revelation 12 is not a prologue, nor does it have components of a prologue in it. From the 'scoped out', 'eagle eye view' of 'the problem with Revelation 12'. That is, setting aside the specific details that would really make Revelation 12 seem to not be a prologue.
Feel free to express your own viewpoints there, or argue against mine your doubts. Otherwise, I can not address them.
