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Featured Main Problems w "A" or "Post" Millenialism?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by DreamerOfTheHeart, Nov 8, 2018.

  1. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The 7th does precede the MK.

    7th trump, Jesus begins his return, the dead in Christ resurrect, the living raptured, Jesus battles the beast and his army, beast and FP cast into LOF, Satan is imprisoned and then the MK begins.
     
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  2. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    woe = ouai (G3759)

    Revelation 18:10,16,19

    used three times

    Need to use the original Greek, Revelation was inspired into Greek not English

    ask God why, but God spoke in Greek
     
  3. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm not sure those are related to the woe trumps. At best it would be the 3rd woe in which Babylon is destroyed but the word can be used outside of the woe trumps context.
     
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  4. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    does revelation contain the phrase "third woe"?

    if not, then either revelation contains an omission, or woe 3x = 3rd woe
     
  5. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Yes.

    Rev_11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
     
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  6. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

    Revelation 9:13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
    14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

    Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
    15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

    The pattern is apparently this, and I'm guessing you might agree. The sounding of the 5th angel brings about the 1st woe. And then leads to the sounding of the 6th angel, thus the 2nd woe. That obviously means that the third woe has to be the 7th trumpet. During each woe numerous events occur, thus takes time to fulfill. Per Amil though, once the 7th trumpet has sounded, a split second later, or at least that very same day the 7th trumpet sounds, everything is finished, including the great white throne judgment.
     
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  7. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    so,

    the 6th trumpet immediately follows the end of the 1st woe (Rev 9:13)

    the 7th trumpet immediately follows the end of the 2nd woe (Rev 11:14)

    an 8th trumpet could follow the end of the 3rd woe...

    are there any more trumpet sounds in revelation after the 7th ?
     
  8. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    G565
    aperchomai = apo+erchomai = away /off + come /go /move

    Rev 9:12 - One woe is "moved away"; G565 and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.

    Rev 10:9 - And I "moved away" G565 unto the angel, and said unto him, Give me the little book. And he said unto me, Take it, and eat it up; and it shall make thy belly bitter, but it shall be in thy mouth sweet as honey.

    Rev 11:14 - The second woe is "moved away"; G565 and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.

    Rev 12:17 - And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and "moved away" G565 to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

    Rev 16:2 - And the first "moved away", G565 and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.

    Rev 18:14 - And the fruits that thy soul lusted after are "moved away" G565 from thee, and all things which were dainty and goodly are "moved away" G565 from thee, and thou shalt find them no more at all.

    Rev 21:4 - And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are "moved away" G565

    ------------

    No woes in the new earth (rev 21:4), so the 3rd woe has happened already (duh)

    last woes explicitly mentioned are Rev 18 versus Babylon

    last time "moved away" (Rev 18:14) is used within a line or two of "woe" (Rev 18:10,16,19) is Rev 18

    available evidence is MOST suggestive of Rev 18 = 3rd woe

    not 100% explicitly stated
     
  9. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Which isn't found in the scriptures.The living and dead saints are judged and rewarded but nothing about the unsaved being resurrected and judged. He does kill many people but we know that from Rev 19 already.
     
  10. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, the 5th trump is the first woe, 6th is the 2nd woe and 7th is the third woe. The trumps start the whole thing and events. There is also no 8th trump in Rev. There are only 7, and 7 is the last trump and last woe as well.
     
  11. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.


    Here's something that I feel some might tend to overlook. Maybe it's just my translation though, but my translation says--- But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel---it says the days rather than the day. How then can the events having to do with the 7th trumpet not involve more than one 24 hour day? Since when do days equal a 24 hour day?
     
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  12. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    And what else seems to debunk the Amil interpretation of the 7th trumpet, besides what you submitted here, would be my last post where I brought up Revelation 10:7.
     
  13. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    "the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound"

    Sounds to me the days leading up to when the trump begins to sound...that's in the beginning of it not after it has sounded with days afterwards else it would be written:

    "the days of the voice of the seventh angel, after he had sounded"
     
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  14. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    misthos G3408
    "wages" of payment owed

    Rev 11:18 - And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give "wages" G3408 unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the land.

    Rev 22:12 - And, behold, I come quickly; and my "wages" G3408 is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.

    ----------

    Jesus Christ dispenses His "wages" at his second coming

    Christ issues a down payment to (previous prior) martyrs at the beginning of the millennium (Rev 20:4-6)

    ALL remaining wages are paid at the full physical second coming of Christ on the Great White Throne at Final Judgement a thousand years plus a little while later (Rev 20:9+)

    QED
     
  15. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    so the 7th trumpet blast is a very gradual and protracted event
     
  16. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I don't believe so.

    I think this translation makes it clearer:

    Rev 10:6 And took his oath by him who is living for ever and ever, who made the heaven and the things in it, and the earth and the things in it, and the sea and the things in it, that there would be no more waiting:
    Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when the sound of his horn is about to come, then will the secret of God be complete, of which he gave the good news to his servants the prophets.
     
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  17. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    woes result from the effects of the trumpet blasts?

    trumpets sound
    stuff decreed to happen happens
    woes result

    woes close the trumpet blasts
     
  18. DavidPT

    DavidPT Well-Known Member

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    Revelation 8:13 And I beheld, and heard an angel flying through the midst of heaven, saying with a loud voice, Woe, woe, woe, to the inhabiters of the earth by reason of the other voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound!

    Revelation 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit.
    2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened by reason of the smoke of the pit.
    Revelation 9:12 One woe is past; and, behold, there come two woes more hereafter.
    13 And the sixth angel sounded, and I heard a voice from the four horns of the golden altar which is before God,
    14 Saying to the sixth angel which had the trumpet, Loose the four angels which are bound in the great river Euphrates.

    It's like EWQ just pointed out, the 1st woe is the 5th trumpet. The 2nd woe is the 6th trumpet, where that has to mean the 3rd woe is the 7th trumpet.


    There are 7 trumpets, correct? If Revelation 8:13 indicates there are still voices of the trumpet of the three angels, which are yet to sound, that means the voices of the trumpet of 4 of the 7 angels have already sounded, leaving angel 5, 6, and 7, yet to sound as of Revelation 8:13.

    If the first of these three who are yet to sound is the 5th angel and equals the first woe, and if the 2nd one of these is the 6th angel and equals the 2nd woe, shouldn't the logical conclusion be that the 7th angel's trumpet therefore must equal the 3rd woe?
     
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  19. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    so the protracted event is the VOICE of the 7th Angel?

    who speaks for days plural

    during which time he also sounds the 7th trumpet?
     
  20. ewq1938

    ewq1938 Well-Known Member Supporter

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    No, the last three trumps are simply named "woe trumps" because woe or warning to everyone when it sounds because what happens is dangerous, troublesome etc.



    That's not the way I understand them.

    Rev 8:13 And there came to my ears the cry of an eagle in flight in the middle of heaven, saying with a great voice, Trouble, trouble, trouble, to all on the earth, because of the other voices of the horns of the three angels, whose sounding is still to come.
     
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