Magic in Judaism and in Christianity

[cloudyday2]

Judaism and Christianity share the Old Testament yet their attitudes towards the practice of magic are very different. The practice of magic is often accepted within Judaism as long as it aligns with the will of God. In contrast, the practice of magic is mostly scorned within Christianity regardless of its purpose (although there have been Christians who practiced magic privately).

I wonder why the two religions have different attitudes while sharing the Old Testament? The Old Testament verses that Christians often quote about magic seem pretty unambiguous. Yet, Jews apparently understand the verses differently.

Here is an interesting article about magic in Judaism for anybody who is interested:
The Weird and Wondrous World of Jews and Magic

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Here you go OP :

The Reality of Sorcerers, Witches and Magic from Bible Scriptures and Church Fathers


It's Condemned in the Old Testament also :


Stand now With Your Enchantments
And The Multitude Of YOUR SORCERIES,
In which you have labored from your youth—
Perhaps you will be able to profit,
Perhaps you will prevail.
You are wearied in the multitude of your counsels;
Let now The Astrologers, The Stargazers,
And The Monthly Prognosticators
Stand up and save you
From what shall come upon you.
Behold, They Shall Be As Stubble,
The Fire Shall Burn Them;
They shall not deliver themselves
From The Power Of The Flame;
It shall not be a coal to be warmed by,
Nor a fire to sit before!

• Isaiah 47:12-1414

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[Sabertooth]

The practice of magic is often accepted within Judaism as long as...

I don't believe that is true for Messianic Judaism.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

• The Witch / Medium of Endor in 1 Samuel 28 that uses Necromancy :

1 Samuel 28 - NKJV

.

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Pharoh's Magicians Jannes and Jambres were the enemies of Moses in The Old Testament :

Jannes and Jambres - Wikipedia


Then The Magicians of Egypt did so with their Enchantments; and Pharaoh’s heart grew hard, and he did not heed them, as the Lord had said.
• Exodus 7:22

And when they had gone Pharaoh sent for Balaam The magician and to Jannes and Jambres his sons, and to all the magicians and conjurors and counsellors which belonged to the king, and they all came and sat before the king.
• Jasher 79:27

Now As Jannes and Jambres resisted Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, disapproved concerning the faith;
• 2 Timothy 3:8

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[zippy2006]

The practice of magic is often accepted within Judaism as long as it aligns with the will of God.

Even according to your article it would seem that the majority of Jewish scholars believe magic is incompatible with Judaism.

 

[cloudyday2]

It's Condemned in the Old Testament also

That is the point. Why is Judaism more accepting of these things than Christianity when they share the same Old Testament? Jews must have a different understanding of those verses in the OT that Christians quote regarding magic and witchcraft.

 

[cloudyday2]

Even according to your article it would seem that the majority of Jewish scholars believe magic is incompatible with Judaism.

Some of the difficulty in discussing magic and witchcraft is defining what we mean.

I see a difference in the attitude towards magic in Judaism and Christianity, but it is difficult for me to pinpoint that difference.

Try googling and see if you notice a difference. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see more tolerance of certain forms of magic and witchcraft within Judaism (depending on definitions).

 

[cloudyday2]

@zippy2006 , here is another article that I haven't read in detail but I will quote some of it.

In the rabbinic view, an unusual events is "magic"–and
culpable–or "miracle"–and laudable–depending upon who does it, in
what context, and for what purpose. Exactly what is accomplished is rarely at
issue at all.

For the rabbis, miracles are distinguished from magic
primarily by the fact that the former are performed by a sage whose power derives
from the merit earned through knowledge of Torah and a life of piety.

Magic in Rabbinic Judaism | My Jewish Learning

 

[com7fy8]

Jews must have a different understanding

Jesus was very clear how a number of Jews were not living according to the Old Testament which they claimed to be their scripture.

"not even those who are circumcised keep the law," Paul says in Galatians 6:13.

So, what people do culturally might not represent correctly their own religion that they claim.

And if people have the character to reject Jesus as their Messiah, their character makes them able to do all kinds of things wrong, and to use the scriptures the wrong way.

 

[zippy2006]

Some of the difficulty in discussing magic and witchcraft is defining what we mean.

I see a difference in the attitude towards magic in Judaism and Christianity, but it is difficult for me to pinpoint that difference.

Try googling and see if you notice a difference. Maybe I'm wrong, but I see more tolerance of certain forms of magic and witchcraft within Judaism (depending on definitions).

I will look into this when I have more time, but I tend to half-agree with your article when it says that magic isn't good or evil in itself, but only in the way it is used. It's just that I wouldn't describe magic as an extraordinary event that includes both miracles-via-God and manipulation-of-nature-via-self. The line gets a bit fuzzy, but there really is a line there.

If Judaism is opposed to manipulation of the natural order in a self-centered way via the occult, but is not opposed to a prophet working miracles through the "agency" of God, then I think Christianity is on the same page. It's a good question, though. I don't think Christians think about this subject very clearly (e.g. debates on Harry Potter, Narnia, The Lord of the Rings, etc.).

 

[cloudyday2]

If Judaism is opposed to manipulation of the natural order in a self-centered way via the occult, but is not opposed to a prophet working miracles through the "agency" of God, then I think Christianity is on the same page.

I have read different distinctions in different sources, but one of the links seems to say that it is nature of the practitioner that makes the difference. When a devout rabbi casts a spell it is a miracle, but when a common Jew casts a spell it is witchcraft and warrants execution. There is a rationale for distinguishing based on the practitioner, because presumably a devout rabbi through his long study of Torah and righteous lifestyle is spell-casting within the will of God while the common Jew may or may not be. Even if the common Jew has good intentions his/her lower level of learning and experience makes the practice criminally reckless. Anyway that is how I imagine it might be rationalized.

The correlation of learning and virtuous behavior with the
ability to work wonders is here explicit. The following passages, which appear
at Bavli Sanhedrin 67b-68a, ultimately make clear the way in which such
laudable use of rabbinical power is distinguished from the magical deeds
performed by non-rabbis. The magic tricks of non-rabbis, but not those of a
rabbi, render the lay magician culpable for death:

Magic in Rabbinic Judaism | My Jewish Learning

 

[ChavaK]

I don't believe that is true for Messianic Judaism.

Messianic "Judaism" is not accepted by Judaism. We consider it to be Christianity.

 

[Zoness]

Messianic "Judaism" is not accepted by Judaism. We consider it to be Christianity.

I've always described it as Pentecostal Christianity with vaguely Jewish aesthetics.

 

[cloudyday2]

Messianic "Judaism" is not accepted by Judaism. We consider it to be Christianity.

Would it be possible for a Jew to become convinced that Jesus is the Messiah and continue living as a Jew? Is there anything about Judaism that would make an ethnically Jewish Christian uncomfortable and necessitate a break with ethnicity?

 

[Jude1:3Contendforthefaith]

Here's a verse in Deuteronomy :


There shall not be found among you anyone who burns his son or his daughter as an offering, Anyone Who Practices Divination or tells fortunes or interprets omens, or A Sorcerer a medium or a necromancer or one who inquires of the dead,

• Deuteronomy 18:10-11

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[Oseas]

Judaism and Christianity share the Old Testament yet their attitudes towards the practice of magic are very different. The practice of magic is often accepted within Judaism as long as it aligns with the will of God. In contrast, the practice of magic is mostly scorned within Christianity regardless of its purpose (although there have been Christians who practiced magic privately).

I wonder why the two religions have different attitudes while sharing the Old Testament? The Old Testament verses that Christians often quote about magic seem pretty unambiguous. Yet, Jews apparently understand the verses differently.

Here is an interesting article about magic in Judaism for anybody who is interested:
The Weird and Wondrous World of Jews and Magic

I had never read anything literal about the disguised spiritist Judaism, it was the first time through the link you posted, actually I always said in my posts in all Christians sites that the messiah of the Jews is an esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist false messiah, by the way, he was born decades ago and will manifest himself very soon in Israel, and he will do great wonders, so that he will make fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men(Revelation 13:v.13-14), and will deceive them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he has power to do in the sight of the Beast of sea, that is the Pope with his devilish idolatries preached through the Great harlot-the Roman Catholic Church-, which rides upon the Beast of sea-the Pope- actually a MONSTRUOUS and devilish religious system with 7 heads, and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his seven heads the name of blasphemy as, for example, Vicarys Filii Dei, what is a lie.

The false messiah of the Jews, the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah, he is described in Revelation 13, as the Beast of the earth-Israel-like a lamb(a false lamb) with two horns-it means two kingdoms, and speak as Dragon. About him, Paul, the Apostle, prophesied, saying he will "opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. 9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. -2Thessalonians 2

Get ready.

 

[Robban]

Judaism and Christianity share the Old Testament yet their attitudes towards the practice of magic are very different. The practice of magic is often accepted within Judaism as long as it aligns with the will of God. In contrast, the practice of magic is mostly scorned within Christianity regardless of its purpose (although there have been Christians who practiced magic privately).

I wonder why the two religions have different attitudes while sharing the Old Testament? The Old Testament verses that Christians often quote about magic seem pretty unambiguous. Yet, Jews apparently understand the verses differently.

Here is an interesting article about magic in Judaism for anybody who is interested:
The Weird and Wondrous World of Jews and Magic

Abracadbra, a click here a click there and hundreds or thousands of replies.



As in the days of Noah, a flood, but a flood of information.

Which can easily lead to confusion, chaos unless filtered.

 

[dlamberth]

The false messiah of the Jews, the esoteric, and kabbalistic, and spiritist messiah,

I like the idea of an esoteric messiah. That one works for me. But I wouldn't consider the esoteric trajectory as magic. I guess I'm not understanding the connection. I don't know anything about the kabbala, other than isn't it esoteric? That's a question which shows how much I know about it. And I have no idea what a spiritualist is.

 

[Oseas]

I like the idea of an esoteric messiah. That one works for me. But I wouldn't consider the esoteric trajectory as magic. I guess I'm not understanding the connection. I don't know anything about the kabbala, other than isn't it esoteric? That's a question which shows how much I know about it. And I have no idea what a spiritualist is.

You say "That one works for me". OK, Scripture describes how he is, and what he will do, as follows:
Bible Gateway passage: Revelation 13 - King James Version
KJV-King James Version - Public Domain

Revelation 13:v.11-18
11 And I beheld another Beast coming up out of the earth -Israel-; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a Dragon. (a false lamb, a false messiah, an IMPOSTER)

12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first Beast(the idolater Pope) before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to WORSHIP the first Beast(the idolater Pope), whose deadly wound was healed. (important detail-Revelation 13:v.3-4)

13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, (wonders of lie - magic through satanic spiritualism)

14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he has power to do in the sight of the Beast(the idolater Pope); saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the Beast(to the Pope), which had the wound by a Sword(Sword is the Word of God. The Word is God), and did live.

15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the Beast, that the image of the Beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not WORSHIP the image of the Beast(the Pope) should be killed(Revelation 13:v.7).

16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the Beast, or the number of his name.

18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the Beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred-threescore-and six. 6-6-6