(Lutherans) Lutheran Latin Mass

[tampasteve]

Luther composed a Latin Mass liturgy before his German version in 1553. Do you think there could be any interest in reviving the Latin liturgy in the Lutheran churches much as some Catholic churches use the Tridentine Latin Mass?

I would find it fascinating and think that if it were done at a high level it would attract a certain number of new worshipers to a service. The catch would be to find a pastor willing to participate and try and actually make it work in a church. I am sure that the "right" pastor is out there that can read/speak Latin and would be interested in trying it out.

There exists a middle version that uses both English and Latin. Perhaps this could work as well if combined with more "smells and bells" as it were.

 

[LizaMarie]

Interesting. There is also an Eastern right Lutheran service, too. I think I learned that here.

 

[tampasteve]

Interesting. There is also an Eastern right Lutheran service, too. I think I learned that here.

There is. I believe there is one Lutheran church in the West (Arizona or New Mexico, I think) that has a service in the Eastern Rite. Three might be more in the USA, but that is the only one I have heard of. It is mainly used in Russia and parts of Eastern Europe, but in reality it is pretty limited use based on the amount of Lutherans in that area that are not transplants from the West.

I would love to see it more in use in the USA, in the right environment I can see a demographic that would be very interested in it.

 

[JM]

Links that may be of interest.

http://www.angelfire.com/ny4/djw/WebberByzantineLutheranism.pdf

Lutheran Divine Liturgy

 

[ViaCrucis]

If I recall correctly, Luther wanted the people to be educated, so that while the Mass would be in the common language, Latin wouldn't be done away with (but that the people should know the Latin). I believe he also wanted the use of Greek and Hebrew. I would love to hear and sing the Agnus Dei in Latin and the Kyrie in Greek.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

If I recall correctly, Luther wanted the people to be educated, so that while the Mass would be in the common language, Latin wouldn't be done away with (but that the people should know the Latin). I believe he also wanted the use of Greek and Hebrew. I would love to hear and sing the Agnus Dei in Latin and the Kyrie in Greek.

-CryptoLutheran

In my Congregation, we fairly often use the Greek Kyrie; and the Choir does something in latin a few times a year.

 

[tampasteve]

In my Congregation, we fairly often use the Greek Kyrie; and the Choir does something in latin a few times a year.

On average I would say my church does the Greek Kyrie and or the Latin Agnus Dei maybe...10-15% of the time in the "Traditional" service, never in the "Contemporary" service.

 

[BreadAlone]

Luther mainly intended his Latin Mass for schools, where he expected Latin would be studied as a core component of academia. For huge city churches this would be acceptable, perhaps. But it wasn't really done in Lutheran tradition.

That being said, in the city parishes, many Latin elements, e.g. the responsories, and occasionally the canticles, were retained. For me, though, restoring the faithful use of the Saxon tradition is a much higher priority than restoring Latin. We've abandoned so much of our Evangelical Tradition!

 

[tampasteve]

For me, though, restoring the faithful use of the Saxon tradition is a much higher priority than restoring Latin.

This statement intrigues me, is there much information remaining on what the Saxon use would haev looked like? I am intrigued by different litrugies, and I am not familiar with the Saxon.

We've abandoned so much of our Evangelical Tradition!

Very true, at least the Lutheran church keeps some of the Traditions, not throwing them all[/] out.[/QUOTE]

 

[BreadAlone]

This statement intrigues me, is there much information remaining on what the Saxon use would haev looked like? I am intrigued by different litrugies, and I am not familiar with the Saxon.

I like to call the "Saxon Order" the basic rite from which most Confessional Lutheran bodies in the United States descend, which is reflected by the Saxon Agenda; here is an English translation of the 1540 version:

https://acollectionofprayers.files....3LB1tpwVUiupzMkTPdbAq_odTeqaioL2nbhdip7Yeua-Q

As you will see, it clearly descends from Luther's Deutsche Messe, and is essentially similar to the Church Order proffered by Chemnitz, et al. for Braunschweig-Woffenbüttel. Unfortunately, this Evangelical Liturgical rite has fallen by the wayside in the 21st century, but I have hope for its restoration.

 

[tampasteve]

Wonderful, thank you for sharing!

 

[Kalevalatar]

If I recall correctly, Luther wanted the people to be educated, so that while the Mass would be in the common language, Latin wouldn't be done away with (but that the people should know the Latin). I believe he also wanted the use of Greek and Hebrew. I would love to hear and sing the Agnus Dei in Latin and the Kyrie in Greek.

-CryptoLutheran

And that is pretty much the case today, isn't it? Today we are very well educated, multilingual and more than able to participate in a multilingual Mass, even if we don't speak Latin per se. Much like how we can follow and enjoy Italian opera without actually having studied Italian, by preparing ahead so that we know that this is the part when... and so forth.

 

[Roymond]

If I recall correctly, Luther wanted the people to be educated, so that while the Mass would be in the common language, Latin wouldn't be done away with (but that the people should know the Latin). I believe he also wanted the use of Greek and Hebrew. I would love to hear and sing the Agnus Dei in Latin and the Kyrie in Greek.

-CryptoLutheran

When I was attending a Lutheran college several of the professors would read the scripture lessons in Hebrew and Greek for daily chapel, and one actually had the Agnus Dei in Latin and the Kyrie in Greek once.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

When I was attending a Lutheran college several of the professors would read the scripture lessons in Hebrew and Greek for daily chapel, and one actually had the Agnus Dei in Latin and the Kyrie in Greek once.

When we use DS1, we always sing the Kyrie in greek; always: Kyrie II, 944 LSB... and we like it!!