Lutherans and Freemasonry

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revjpw

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ctobola said:
The Church has basic standards for determining false teachings -- the Creeds. I find nothing that contradicts the Creeds in the Masonic tradition.

So a declaration that states "purity of life and conduct...is so essentially necessary" in order to go to the "Celestial Lodge" is not a false teaching???:scratch:

I don't know what Bible you read, but that totally contradicts mine. And my church holds to the Scripture as "the only source and norm of all teaching in the Church." What does your church hold to as its "source and norm?"


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revjpw

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ctobola said:
The Masonic view of God is different from the Lutheran view, but so is the Methodist view, the Presbyterian view, the Moravian view, etc., etc.

Hmmm, let me see...

The Methodists, Lutherans, Presbyterians, Baptists, etc. all recognize the One True Triune God, and that Jesus is the Second Person of that Triune God, and thereby is God.

The Masons "god" can be whatever one believes it to be, whether Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, or whatever...:scratch:

Nope, I don't see any comparison there at all.


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SPALATIN

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ctobola said:
I think that's more of a comment on the nature of the LCMS than the Boy Scouts.
Actually there are many LCMS churches that allow the BSA to use their facilities for meetings now, however, that doesn't make the BSA any better, but makes the LCMS look more liberal in their view of the BSA.

The BSA focuses on Indian religions. They are basically syncretistic in encouraging one to practice their own faith. It doesn't matter what you believe to be a Boy Scout. The same is true of the Masons. Syncretism is wrong in the eyes of God.



ctobola said:
Neither do the Masons... and as a result they are criticized for being too "generic" in their view of God.

Being Generic is the Problem. THat is why the Mason are a bad idea.




ctobola said:
Which ceremony do you think has the deepest meaning?

All of the secret ones they don't tell the junior members about.



ctobola said:
Frankly, a lot of stuff that we make part of our day-to-day lives conflicts with the Gospel. As you've already noted, the LCMS is rather hyper-sensitive in these areas. Mention the Masons and they immediately create standards that would never be required of social organizations.

Better to be hyper sensitive than to be tolerant of their evil ways. Evil is not always obvious, but is at many times very subtle. That is the kind of evil I see in the Masons and the Scouts. Ease off as you will never convince me that these groups are as good as you think they are. I was a Boy Scout and know that there is some good to them but they are base on personal merit vs Christianity which is based on Christ's merit alone.




ctobola said:
Guess what, Masonic hamburgers aren't Christian hamburgers either! When my dad died, we had the traditional Lutheran funeral and then after everyone left the Masons said goodbye to him in their own manner. They didn't interfere with the service held by the congregation.

-Cloy

I am sorry for your loss of your father as I lost mine as well. What you did for your father in the Lutheran funeral was good. It was your choice to let the Masons do their own thing. I would not have let them near my father but then again he wasn't a Mason. You are just looking for a justification for the Masons and being a member. You won't convince me that they are good.
 
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revjpw

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SLStrohkirch said:
Actually there are many LCMS churches that allow the BSA to use their facilities for meetings now, however, that doesn't make the BSA any better, but makes the LCMS look more liberal in their view of the BSA.

The BSA focuses on Indian religions. They are basically syncretistic in encouraging one to practice their own faith. It doesn't matter what you believe to be a Boy Scout. The same is true of the Masons.

The Masons clearly advocate works righteousness as the means to justification. I do not recall such a claim in any of the BSA rituals. In fact, I don't recall any religious implications in the BSA at all.

I was a Boy Scout and know that there is some good to them but they are base on personal merit vs Christianity which is based on Christ's merit alone.


The Masons are a quasi-religious organization. The BSA are not. Again, I don't recall the BSA telling anyone that personal merit is necessary for salvation as the Masons do. The Freemasons and the Boy Scouts are two very different groups. There is really no comparison between the two organizations at all.

Syncretism is wrong in the eyes of God.

Unless of course you are the Atlantic District president.;)


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Jim47

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BSA ? Are we talking about Motorcyles here :confused:


You know, its a sad thing that there are so many organizations that have a loose conection with God, and what is worse is that many of these members, have no other connection with God. :(
 
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Protoevangel

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Jim47 said:
BSA ? Are we talking about Motorcyles here :confused:


You know, its a sad thing that there are so many organizations that have a loose conection with God, and what is worse is that many of these members, have no other connection with God. :(
Boy Scouts of America
 
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Protoevangel

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Jim47 said:
I was only joking about the motorcyle, but this would be one of a few times that I knew what the acronym stood for ;)

I guess I'm acronym handi-capped :D
:foot-in-mouth:

(yet another missing smilie!)
 
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pastel

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Jim47 said:
I know this is a very touchy subject and should always be handled with care, but if people realized how dangerous some of these organizations are to people who have a weak faith or understanding.

I appluad your Pastor for his stance.

Hey Charlene! What is this little guy all about
Sad.gif
Why would you be sad. You must have a zillion friends. :wave:

Hey, thanks for the comment. Yeah, it is a very touchy subject...and I'm sure the Pastor was correct in addressing the issue. We do not have that Pastor anymore. We got a new one, and we really (hubby & myself) did not like the one pastor very much. Long story...anyway, he ended up resigning when his wife filed for divorce.

As far as that little guy...I really like him, he has a 3D look to him, and also I was a little sad when I placed him there because our dogs kept tracking so much mud into the house during the rains, and the cleanup was overwhelming. We have had some nice, warm days, and the mud tracks have stopped, at least for now. Guess it is time to change the little blue guy. :)

A zillion friends? ummm....not QUITE that many. ;)
 
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Zoomer

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I bet you have a difficult time living in the U.S. You money says "IN GOD WE TRUST," but doesn't specify which God; the Pledge of Allegiance requires you to declare loyalty to "ONE NATION UNDER GOD."

As I've said, the minute the Masons are mentioned, people begin to over-react -- holding them to standards we don't apply to any other organization.

It's comparing apples to oranges. You voluntarily choose to participate in a secret society founded in gnosticism. I have no control over money or pledges, but I do have control over who I associate with and if it is beneficial to my faith. I have heard the same arguments over and over, the same lines used to defend masons as a social club. If Masons really wanted to be seen as acceptable then maybe they should stop all the secrecy.
 
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ByzantineDixie

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GP101, I was doing some research over my lunch hour on something completely different but I stumbled on to this link regarding lodges. I haven't read all of it, nonetheless, there seems to be some good information in what I have read...especially since scriptural references are cited. This may help you in your studies or at least help you better understand the LCMS position.

http://www.standrewslcms.org/resources/lodge.htm

Peace

Rose
 
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guitarplayer_101

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Luthers Rose said:
GP101, I was doing some research over my lunch hour on something completely different but I stumbled on to this link regarding lodges. I haven't read all of it, nonetheless, there seems to be some good information in what I have read...especially since scriptural references are cited. This may help you in your studies or at least help you better understand the LCMS position.

http://www.standrewslcms.org/resources/lodge.htm

Peace

Rose

Thanks!:)
 
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Flipper

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Until very recently, I was the vice president of a local chapter of Beta Sigma Phi, a social sorority. Officially, I am in a leave of absense, but for all practical purposes, I'm leaving the organization.

First of all, I want to say that none of the below has anything to do with why I quit. Still, I find it strange.

The organization is all about the "glorious sisterhood." Hey, it's a girl's club - so of course it's going to be about something like that. However, there are rituals for EVERYTHING, it's like adult girl scouts - we have to say an opening and closing ritual whenever we have a meeting. When we move up in the group, or someone is being honored, there is a "ritual" involved - and that's what it's called. It's not like masons, where there are secret stuff that's revealed as you rise up - you just can't participate in the rituals if you aren't a member. While one can get the information on a ritual easilly, there is supposed to be a secretive nature about it.

What I thought was strange, was that there is fine print in our little Book of Beta Sigma Phi that says that the LCMS approves of the rituals - no other denomination, just the LCMS.

You know, come to think about it, there's that kind of stuff in every fraternity and sorority - especially the ones on college campuses. Not the fine print about the LCMS approving it, but the different rituals themselves.

This is weirding me out.
 
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Flipper said:
What I thought was strange, was that there is fine print in our little Book of Beta Sigma Phi that says that the LCMS approves of the rituals - no other denomination, just the LCMS.

Probably because LCMS dissaproves of most fraternal organizations (ex. masons, elks, moose) This is just an assumption though, I'm not sure about college fraternities/sororities.:)
 
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elderAl

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My father was a Mason, and I know from experience what a profound and destructive effect his association with those people had on his life. The details would read more like a novel than a forum post. The literature may say that they pray to the G.A.O.T.U. but at the only shrine event I attended the prayers were addressed to Allah. The whole thing gave me the willies. I couldnt get out of there soon enough.
My mother made sure his apron and fez were nowhere to be found when his funeral arrangements were being made.
 
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SPALATIN

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elderAl said:
My father was a Mason, and I know from experience what a profound and destructive effect his association with those people had on his life. The details would read more like a novel than a forum post. The literature may say that they pray to the G.A.O.T.U. but at the only shrine event I attended the prayers were addressed to Allah. The whole thing gave me the willies. I couldnt get out of there soon enough.
My mother made sure his apron and fez were nowhere to be found when his funeral arrangements were being made.

The symbols of the Shriners and Masons are very "Muslim" like so it would not surprise me that there is some connection.
 
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