Lutheran Pastor friends article on Mary

[Paidiske]

I don't think it's so much thinking that the Reformers "got things wrong" as thinking that we might be able to deepen and enrich our own approach. Not repudiating Luther, Cranmer etc, but saying that there is more we might say as well.

 

[Tigger45]

Thanks for posting this. I appreciate it as it also reflects the views of many especially older Lutherans. One thing that always disappoints me about Pastor Weedon(As opposed to my Pastor friend David who wrote the Marian article I posted) is that Pastor Will Weedon can be rude, and a bit anti-Catholic in his presentation. I remember hearing him on Issues ETC and he can really be ignorant of things Catholic. Unlike my pastor friend David who has studied the Catholic theology Pastor Weedon seems not to understand the Catholic theology of the intercession and communion of saints(among other things). In fact I have often thought about dialoging with Pastor Weedon on issues ETC about the issues I feel he misunderstands but I was warned not to and told he may not be the most fair in dialog.

Well I don’t know Pr Weedon personally and won’t be commenting on these assertions but here’s a beautiful piece he wrote from BVM’s perspective as a mother to a son.

Weedon's Blog: A Dormition Meditation

 

[Athanasias]

Well I don’t know Pr Weedon personally and won’t be commenting on these assertions but here’s a beautiful piece he wrote from BVM’s perspective as a mother to a son.

Weedon's Blog: A Dormition Meditation

That was a pretty awesome article. Thank you for sharing that!

 

[Athanasias]

I think that's a completely separate set of issues.

I do think there's been more awareness particularly of Orthodox scholarship (not always easily accessible in the past, the internet has made some things much easier), and more willingness to think about different approaches to soteriology etc. For myself I find Orthodox understandings of some things - ecclesiology in particular - deeply enriching.

But that doesn't stop me believing that seeking the intercession of the saints is just wrong.

Forgive my ignorance but don't Episcopalians practice the praying to saints or what is known as the intercession of saints? Again I am a bit ignorant of the differences between Anglicans and Episcopal but I know some Anglican priests who pray to saints just as Catholics do and in fact its in their liturgy. Maybe you could help me understand.

 

[Paidiske]

Forgive my ignorance but don't Episcopalians practice the praying to saints or what is known as the intercession of saints? Again I am a bit ignorant of the differences between Anglicans and Episcopal but I know some Anglican priests who pray to saints just as Catholics do and in fact its in their liturgy. Maybe you could help me understand.

It's one of those things that gets a bit blurry for very high Anglicans.

The 39 Articles - the definitive statement of Anglican doctrine - says this (I apologise for the polemical tone, but this was written centuries ago and not in the spirit which prevails in this forum!):

"THE Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping, and Adoration, as well of Images as of Reliques, and also invocation of Saints, is a fond thing vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God."

(My bold).

Now, two things about Episcopalians; they tend to be more high-church than Anglicans in many other parts of the world, and they no longer require strict adherence to the 39 Articles. Where I had to give my assent on oath to the Articles to be ordained, Episcopal clergy in the United States do not. So they may feel more free to disregard this Article and seek the intercession of the saints.

For me, it is completely and unequivocally out of bounds.

 

[Athanasias]

It's one of those things that gets a bit blurry for very high Anglicans.

The 39 Articles - the definitive statement of Anglican doctrine - says this (I apologise for the polemical tone, but this was written centuries ago and not in the spirit which prevails in this forum!):

"THE Romish Doctrine concerning Purgatory, Pardons, Worshipping, and Adoration, as well of Images as of Reliques, and also invocation of Saints, is a fond thing vainly invented, and grounded upon no warranty of Scripture, but rather repugnant to the Word of God."

(My bold).

Now, two things about Episcopalians; they tend to be more high-church than Anglicans in many other parts of the world, and they no longer require strict adherence to the 39 Articles. Where I had to give my assent on oath to the Articles to be ordained, Episcopal clergy in the United States do not. So they may feel more free to disregard this Article and seek the intercession of the saints.

For me, it is completely and unequivocally out of bounds.

This is very helpful. Thank you for clarifying this for me.

 

[gordonhooker]

To round off my sisters comments there are some in Australian Anglicanism that do not have an issue with asking the Saints to pray for them. As a Franciscan Tertiary I finish off our Community Obedience Office every morning with this prayer.

May our blessed Lady pray for us.
May Saint Francis pray for us.
May Saint Clare pray for us.
May all the saints of the Third Order pray for us.
May the holy angels watch over us and befriend us.
May our Lord Jesus give us his blessing and his peace. Amen

As a licensed LA I would not preach anything that directly goes against the 39 Articles in corporate worship, but my personal view is that they were overdone and in some cases the baby was thrown out with the bath water.

 

[Tigger45]

Here’s a good YouTube video called ‘The role of Mary in the Episcopal church.’

 

[Athanasias]

To round off my sisters comments there are some in Australian Anglicanism that do not have an issue with asking the Saints to pray for them. As a Franciscan Tertiary I finish off our Community Obedience Office every morning with this prayer.

May our blessed Lady pray for us.
May Saint Francis pray for us.
May Saint Clare pray for us.
May all the saints of the Third Order pray for us.
May the holy angels watch over us and befriend us.
May our Lord Jesus give us his blessing and his peace. Amen

As a licensed LA I would not preach anything that directly goes against the 39 Articles in corporate worship, but my personal view is that they were overdone and in some cases the baby was thrown out with the bath water.

Thank you this helps.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

Regarding Doctrine and Dogma nothing really ever changed within the Confessional Lutheran Churches since the "age of orthodoxy" however in the colonies; there seemed to have been a tendency to "protestantize" practice for the sake of outward appearances. In the LCMS/LCC there is not only the intent to remain traditionally Lutheran, but to return to traditionally Lutheran practices as well. What we are discussing here is not new, but a renewal.