Lutheran Pastor friends article on Mary

[Athanasias]

This is my LCMS pastor friends latest article on the BVM. Its really good! Take a read!

Mary, Model Christian

 

[Tigger45]

Sounds good to me although I have a very high Mariology. I don't pray to BVM but I will recite the pre-Trent Hail Mary sometimes during my prayers to show respect and honor to the Lord's earthly mother.

 

[gordonhooker]

This is my LCMS pastor friends latest article on the BVM. Its really good! Take a read!

Mary, Model Christian

Very powerful message from one of our Lutheran brothers.

 

[All4Christ]

Ah, just figured out the BVM is Blessed Virgin Mary. It should have clicked immediately, lol. Just posting for anyone else not familiar with the acronym

 

[Paidiske]

It doesn't resonate with me. To me he seems to dismiss legitimate theological concerns as being about petty denominational disputes and identity crisis.

There is a via media between denigrating Mary and elevating her inappropriately, but the way he writes seems to preclude that and assume only very polarised positions.

 

[Paidiske]

Should it?

Perhaps not, but I went on to say a good bit more about where I felt there were issues with it. Would you like to discuss any of that?

 

[anna ~ grace]

This is my LCMS pastor friends latest article on the BVM. Its really good! Take a read!

Mary, Model Christian

Very good! Very beautiful! Bless this man! It is a wonderful, wonderful thing to see more Protestant Christians warm to Our Lady! I hope it can be said that she is their Mother, too.

I have to tell you, at the Nazarene church where my husband takes us sometimes, this morning, I heard the most Marian sermon I have ever heard anywhere, minus EWTN. Astounding. The Pastor basically went over every single Joyful Mystery minus one, and preached at length on what it meant for Mary to have "treasured these things in her heart". Beautiful. My jaw droped and I couldn't believe it. Beautiful.

Maria Immaculata, ora pro nobis!

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Mary Trusted Yahweh, was raised in the way she was to go, was obedient, TORAH observant, obeyed her husband,
honored Yahweh and all the commandments,
was silent when appropriate, not usurping authority over men,
...........
"Yahweh is the head of Christ, Christ the head of men, man the head of woman"

 

[Athanasias]

I find it refreshing that a conservative sola scriptura Lutheran protestant Pastor can see the power and truth that the early Fathers and saints saw in venerating Mary as New Eve and asking for her intercession as Queen Mother of Heaven. He notices rightly that the younger LCMS Pastors are more open to Marian veneration and to fail to recognize what God did for and through her we then would denigrate the Gospel.

It is possible to give to much glory to Mary as the Collyridians did in the early Church however as this protestant Pastor notices that it is also improper to deny her glory or make her a mere recepticle as Christ glorified her first making her higher then the angels, the New Eve, and the Queen Mother of the Church as the early fathers recognize(a feast which we celebrate Tuesday as a Holy Day of obligation).

I recommend this book to understand the biblical and historical theology of what God did for Mary and how the early Church saw her.
https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jewish-Roots-Mary-Unveiling/dp/0525572732

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

??? What if this applies >>> woe to those who call something not true , as if it was true, even as if it was good ?

 

[Athanasias]

??? What if this applies >>> woe to those who call something not true , as if it was true, even as if it was good ?

If it is not true then the Catholic Church is leading people to sin. But if it is true(as the early Christians thought) then many non Catholic Christians are not giving Christ enough glory by seeing what he did to elevate his Mother to become our Queen Mother and Second Eve, and New Ark of the New covenant, and New Rachel.

This book will explain more. From the Jewish roots.

https://www.amazon.com/Jesus-Jewish-Roots-Mary-Unveiling/dp/0525572732

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Martin Luther, hundreds of other Reformers, and millions of Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Independents, and more,
believe it is not true. Some have jumped ship, accepting what their group knows is not true. Everyone will have to answer for their own lives.

 

[Athanasias]

Martin Luther, hundreds of other Reformers, and millions of Lutherans, Baptists, Methodists, Independents, and more,
believe it is not true. Some have jumped ship, accepting what their group knows is not true. Everyone will have to answer for their own lives.

Here are some Quotes from Martin Luther on Mary,

He has a High Mariology and this is admitted by many Lutheran Pastors.

It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" -Martin Luther (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God,” 1527).

Along with virtually all important Protestant Founders (e.g., Calvin, Zwingli, Cranmer), Luther accepted the traditional belief in the perpetual virginity of Mary (Jesus had no blood brothers), and her status as the Theotokos (Mother of God):

"Christ, ..was the only Son of Mary, and the Virgin Mary bore no children besides Him... "brothers" really means "cousins" here, for Holy Writ and the Jews always call cousins brothers." -Martin Luther (Sermons on John, chapters 1-4.1537-39).

"He, Christ, our Savior, was the real and natural fruit of Mary's virginal womb.. .This was without the cooperation of a man, and she remained a virgin after that." (Ibid.)

"God says... "Mary's Son is My only Son." Thus Mary is the Mother of God.". (Ibid.)

"God did not derive his divinity from Mary; but it does not follow that it is therefore wrong to say that God was born of Mary, that God is Mary's Son, and that Mary is God's mother...She is the true mother of God and bearer of God...Mary suckled God, rocked God to sleep, prepared broth and soup for God, etc. For God and man are one person, one Christ, one Son, one Jesus. not two Christs. . .just as your son is not two sons...even though he has two natures, body and soul, the body from you, the soul from God alone." -Martin Luther (On the Councils and the Church, 1539)

"She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin—something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil." -Martin Luther (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522)
Luther preached on the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary, the sermon of August 15, 1522, is the last time:

"There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith... It is enough to know that she lives in Christ." -Martin Luther (Sermon, Feast of the Assumption of Mary, 1522)

Pastoral Meanderings: Luther on the Annunciation. . .

 

[Willie T]

Interesting article, but too much of the Catholic "having Mary commune with God for us" to sit well with me. I guess I am a little more Protestant than Lutherans might be.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

There were similar troubles in the first century , I think:

Romans 7 CJB - Surely you know, brothers — for I am - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+7&version=CJB
21 So I find it to be the rule, a kind of perverse “torah,” that although I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me! 22 For in my inner self I completely ...
Romans 7:14-25 CJB - For we know that the Torah is ... - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+7%3A14-25...CJB
21 So I find it to be the rule, a kind of perverse “torah,” that although I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me! 22 For in my inner self I completely ...
Galatians 4:3-5 CJB - So it is with us — when we were - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Galatians+4%3A3-5&version=CJB
He was born from a woman, born into a culture in which legalistic perversion of the Torah was the norm, 5 so that he might redeem those in subjection to this ...

 

[Athanasias]

There were similar troubles in the first century , I think:

Romans 7 CJB - Surely you know, brothers — for I am - Bible Gateway

Bible Gateway passage: Romans 7 - Complete Jewish Bible
21 So I find it to be the rule, a kind of perverse “torah,” that although I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me! 22 For in my inner self I completely ...
Romans 7:14-25 CJB - For we know that the Torah is ... - Bible Gateway

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Romans+7%3A14-25...CJB
21 So I find it to be the rule, a kind of perverse “torah,” that although I want to do what is good, evil is right there with me! 22 For in my inner self I completely ...
Galatians 4:3-5 CJB - So it is with us — when we were - Bible Gateway

Bible Gateway passage: Galatians 4:3-5 - Complete Jewish Bible
He was born from a woman, born into a culture in which legalistic perversion of the Torah was the norm, 5 so that he might redeem those in subjection to this ...

Here St. Paul is talking about the reality of concupiscence which came about from the fall of man. This has nothing to do with Mary as she did not even have concupiscence as she was the Second Eve (a thing the early Christians saw in the early Church)

 

[Tigger45]

Interesting article, but too much of the Catholic "having Mary commune with God for us" to sit well with me. I guess I am a little more Protestant than Lutherans might be.

Typically Lutherans have a higher Mariology than other protestants other than maybe Anglicans but no where near Martin Luther’s Mariology.

 

[Athanasias]

Typically Lutherans have a higher Mariology than other protestants other than maybe Anglicans but no where near Martin Luther’s Mariology.

From what I heard many of the younger LCMS Pastors are beginning(Like my friend who wrote the article) to see the value in what Martin Luther did in his Mariology. This is wonderful and brings us one step closer to unity!

 

[Willie T]

Typically Lutherans have a higher Mariology than other protestants other than maybe Anglicans but no where near Martin Luther’s Mariology.

Well, let's face it, Luder was a Catholic Monk, and never really wanted to leave "The Church." All he originally wanted was a public debate about straightening up the abuses that were being perpetuated in the organization.

 

[Tigger45]

Well, let's face it, Ludder was a Catholic Monk, and never really wanted to leave "The Church." All he originally wanted was a public debate about straightening up the abuses that were being perpetuated in the organization.

Purposefully misspelling Dr. Luther’s name just comes off as disrespectful to me.