Lutheran highchurch or irreverent catholic mass?

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

That's the question.
I've come to realize that there's a very orthodox and reverent Lutheran church in town and that my catholic parish is irreverent in comparison. I'm really considering it for Sunday liturgy as it uses the 1690 liturgy of the Danish-Norwegian church which is very reverent, at least more so than the NO mass.
Not long ago the celebrating priest told a blasphemous joke as part of his homily!

I'm really considering spending at least a occasional Sunday in said church as some sort of refugee. I'm so sick of liberal Catholicism that I nearly puke...

 

[Davidnic]

Well, in the Catholic view, it lacks a valid Epiclesis and succession. So a concern would be that you are leaning toward a kind of unintentional Liturgical Donatism combined with (again not intentionally) removing the Eucharist from central factor in the mass.

Since, in your heart, I would think from all I know about you it is love for the Eucharist that bothers you with the local irreverence...I think it would be unwise to go somewhere with a different view of the Eucharist.

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Is finding a better parish not an option? But yeah, conservative and confessional Lutheran churches haven't changed, still highly traditional and reverent, whereas a lot of Catholic masses can be sickening. But it comes down to the Eucharist. For a very brief period of time I had to attend an LCMS church that was like LCMS and ELCA made a baby and its godparents were Pentecostal. Guitar, stupid sermons and jokes, etc. I wanted to be a refugee at the traditional Catholic church but the Eucharist as I know it wouldn't be available.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Well, in the Catholic view, it lacks a valid Epiclesis and succession. So a concern would be that you are leaning toward a kind of unintentional Liturgical Donatism combined with (again not intentionally) removing the Eucharist from central factor in the mass.

Since, in your heart, I would think from all I know about you it is love for the Eucharist that bothers you with the local irreverence...I think it would be unwise to go somewhere with a different view of the Eucharist.

I don't think donatism is a fitting word, prior to V2 reverence at mass was the norm. NO opens up for these shameful displays. It's actuality highly Catholic not to accept things like this. I'm not searching for perfect clergy and a perfect mass I'm just tired that I experience a show whenever at mass.
We're clapping all of the time at mass too...

Well the Eucharist is of course very important, but I think this post Vatican 2 view that so called trads are to shut up about a dreadful liturgy and focus on the Eucharist only is a bit minimalistic and derogatory. Isn't mass about more than the Eucharist?

The Eucharist is important, but it's not the only important thing. To praise God with humility & reverence is equally important.

We shouldn't have to put up with blasphemy at mass of all places imo.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Is finding a better parish not an option? But yeah, conservative and confessional Lutheran churches haven't changed, still highly traditional and reverent, whereas a lot of Catholic masses can be sickening. But it comes down to the Eucharist. For a very brief period of time I had to attend an LCMS church that was like LCMS and ELCA made a baby and its godparents were Pentecostal. Guitar, stupid sermons and jokes, etc. I wanted to be a refugee at the traditional Catholic church but the Eucharist as I know it wouldn't be available.

Then I have to go out of town which isn't really an option. This identity crisis in Rome is tiresome to the faithful...

 

[Davidnic]

Not to be harsh but the phrase: "The Eucharist is important, but..."

Is a dangerous road.

Yes other things are important but the reverence, humility, reflection of the beauty that exists in Truth, and all the things the Liturgy expresses are there because of the central fact of the Eucharist.

In fact the greatest argument for those things and against the odd three ring circus of self expression the liturgy has become in some areas (to paraphrase Cardinal Arinze) is that it is disrespectful to the Eucharist.

I pray for your situation, I am blessed with good priests in this regard.

My advice, if you can, is go to the mass you can get to. The frustration that comes from what you experience, offer in reparation to the Holy Eucharist for the affront of Liturgical abuses.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

The Eucharist is what separates us from all else. We are the people of the Eucharist. Receiving every Sunday is the most important thing we do all week. Our opening announcement is a welcome, the opening hymn #, and the phrase "This mass is the most important thing we will do all week" as a reminder.

 

[Davidnic]

Correct me if I am wrong, your parish recently went through a priest change correct. And it has gone from a reverent liturgy to one with some oddities?

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

The Eucharist is what separates us from all else. We are the people of the Eucharist. Receiving every Sunday is the most important thing we do all week. Our opening announcement is a welcome, the opening hymn #, and the phrase "This mass is the most important thing we will do all week" as a reminder.

As I said in the op it's not about leaving the faith nor quitting mass, but rather alternating by adding some occasional reverence. Like going to Lutheran service one Sunday a month or something.

Correct me if I am wrong, your parish recently went through a priest change correct. And it has gone from a reverent liturgy to one with some oddities?

Yes, but this isn't just an isolated incident. It's a trend in Norway. Guitars, clapping hands and asking random people random questions as part of the homily etc etc.
The homily thing isn't something I've encountered before so that's heavily attached to our new priest, but the rest isn't as much a parish issue as its a church issue.

Thing is I have my hands full with fatigue and studies so I don't have the time nor the energy to pursue this within the ecclesiastical bureaucracy. I think it would do me some good to be at some place more reverent on occasion.

 

[AvilaSurfer]

Well, after this post I'm staying out of this conversation. I just don't understand the mentality of thinking that going somewhere else, even just occasionally, fulfills the Sunday obligation.

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

Well, after this post I'm staying out of this conversation. I just don't understand the mentality of thinking that going somewhere else, even just occasionally, fulfills the Sunday obligation.

One could argue whether or not the mass as irreverently as its celebrated some places even fulfills it but that's a whole other discussion.

The Roman pontiff about the matter; Pope Tells Lutheran to 'Talk to the Lord' About Receiving the Eucharist

 

[Stabat Mater dolorosa]

The pope or the catechism?

 

[tz620q]

Yes, but this isn't just an isolated incident. It's a trend in Norway. Guitars, clapping hands and asking random people random questions as part of the homily etc etc.
The homily thing isn't something I've encountered before so that's heavily attached to our new priest, but the rest isn't as much a parish issue as its a church issue.

Thing is I have my hands full with fatigue and studies so I don't have the time nor the energy to pursue within the ecclesiastical bureaucracy. I think it would do me some good to be at some place more reverent on occasion.

I think that in the U.S., as in Norway, we are surrounded by Protestant churches. Many of them are reverent and liturgical, like the Lutheran church you mentioned. Many are more like the Pentecostal churches. There is a temptation to conform to what is around you. That is, as you put it, not a Catholic approach. But here is where I disagree with what you suggest. We, as individuals (and this was an emphasis from V2), are called to be lights to the world even within our own churches. I know that within the pre-V2 church there was a reluctance to question a priest's behaviour; but by abandoning your church without trying to hold up what you feel they are doing wrong you are actually allowing that to continue. The NO mass does not reject ritual and formality. It's intent was to draw the people closer to the worship and break down this insurmountable wall between priest and laity.

Throughout the mass, most parts are prescribed by the GIRM General Instruction of the Roman Missal. Unfortunately, the homily is not as well controlled. This is the only part of that document that outlines the content of the homily.
"The Homily

65. The homily is part of the Liturgy and is strongly recommended, for it is necessary for the nurturing of the Christian life. It should be an exposition of some aspect of the readings from Sacred Scripture or of another text from the Ordinary or from the Proper of the Mass of the day and should take into account both the mystery being celebrated and the particular needs of the listeners."

That said, we had a new priest whose style for his homily was monotonic and dry. When he had his review that was brought up and he changed to be a very good homilist. So it is possible to give feedback and maybe it will be accepted. The one thing that this priest had going for him was he was humble, which is the start of all change.

Good luck and God Bless you.

 

[Rhamiel]

Pray for the heretical and irreverent in your church but do not abandon it
God does not abandon you when you sin so how can you abandon His church?

I know it is hard but the alternative is not really an alternative

 

[Sword of the Lord]

Pray for the heretical and irreverent in your church but do not abandon it
God does not abandon you when you sin so how can you abandon His church?

I know it is hard but the alternative is not really an alternative

Even as a Lutheran, I agree a million percent. I know to be a good and true Catholic, you really believe it is the one, true Church and there is no other. I understand this feeling. You cannot venture off, Stabat. You are where you belong. The early Church dealt with so much crap, which is why we know what we know now. Endure til the end, buddy. We all must.

 

[Rhamiel]

I do not want to sound dismissive
I know this is hard
but maybe God placed you in that parish for a reason?

 

[Maryslittleflower]

That's the question.
I've come to realize that there's a very orthodox and reverent Lutheran church in town and that my catholic parish is irreverent in comparison. I'm really considering it for Sunday liturgy as it uses the 1690 liturgy of the Danish-Norwegian church which is very reverent, at least more so than the NO mass.
Not long ago the celebrating priest told a blasphemous joke as part of his homily!

I'm really considering spending at least a occasional Sunday in said church as some sort of refugee. I'm so sick of liberal Catholicism that I nearly puke...

The Lutherans don't have the Real Presence. So it would be a reverent liturgy with no Eucharist... plus heresies...

do you have a parish with the Latin Mass near you? I go to an FSSP parish and it's awesome. No liberalism at all. An Eastern rite Catholic church might appeal to you as well. But please don't leave the Church over something like this. There is only one Church, through which all graces flow (even the ones that are received by non Catholics).

The Eucharist is fundamental. That's the reason for the liturgy - the *Sacrifice* of the Mass. The spiritual reality is very important here.