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Luther Quote

Discussion in 'Theologia Crucis - Lutherans' started by JM, Sep 2, 2011.

  1. JM

    JM Well-Known Member Supporter

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    I'm trying to find a source for this quote to see if it's legit or not. Anyone know if it's real or a fraud?

     
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  2. PreachersWife2004

    PreachersWife2004 by his wounds we are healed Supporter

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    Everything I can find on it seems to cite it circularly (meaning, it's cited from a magazine that has it cited from a book that has it cited as a quote from someone), but it is never directly cited to him far as I can find.

    Instead, you should look at what we KNOW Luther said about infant baptism. Check the Large Catechism out and the Small Catechism. Both links go directly to the sections on baptism.
     
  3. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    I'll 2nd that. Luther's discussion on baptism in the Large Catechism is a masterpiece. I am stumped that it is not brought into discussions of baptism more often.
     
  4. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

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    This is the nearest I could find for a reference, but I don’t have access to the Weimar Edition.

    Werke, Weimar Edition, Vol. XXVI, p. 67​

    However, one note on this: even if Luther wrote what is claimed, that does not affect the Lutheran Confessions and our stance. As noted above, his stance in the Large Catechism is clear. So also the Formula of Concord (Andreae and Chemnitz).

     
  5. Tertiumquid

    Tertiumquid Regular Member

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  6. JM

    JM Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The substance of the quote is still valid, right? Luther is basically telling us that it's not found in scripture but it's a valid tradition because it produces fruit...do I have it right?
     
  7. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    This is a tricky thing to disect. The quote refers to a very specific instance: the time of the early Christians after the apostolic period. If the discussion is centered on that narrow question only, the scriptural support is weak, but not (as you suggest) non-existent. Consider Acts 16:15,33.

    If one considers baptism in general, though it is not specifically mentioned in the Old Testament, neither was it a new concept that John or Jesus made up in the New Testament. There are extra-biblical sources indicating baptism was a common practice. At the same time, the baptism established by Jesus at the end of Matthew is unique. So, one could argue that typical baptismal customs, whatever they might have been, don't apply. On the flip side, what did Jesus ever say that would lead one to exclude children? The exclusion seems to come through human reasoning alone, and doesn't square with the fact that God did establish a ritual for children in the OT, i.e. the temple dedication specified in Leviticus 12. So, there was never any Jewish tradition or scriptural support for excluding children. In fact, both seem very inclusive.

    But I guess none of that really speaks to your question. Is their a benefit ("fruit" as you put it) to baptizing children? Absolutely. Because baptism isn't restricted to the common interpretation of the modern American church that it's just some way for adults to seal their membership in the church through public profession (though I don't know how much influence American views on Christianity have in Canada).
     
  8. Resha Caner

    Resha Caner Expert Fool

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    (though I don't know how much influence American views on Christianity have in Canada)
     
  9. filosofer

    filosofer Senior Veteran

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  10. Tertiumquid

    Tertiumquid Regular Member

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    I probably found the same rabbit trails you did. When I checked WA 26:67, there was nothing at all close to the quote in question. I was able though to figure out it was actually page 167, and then cross-reference the German text back to the English LW.

    I love challenges like these- If anyone wants my attention, simply give me an obscure Luther quote to track down.

    James
     
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