Luke 21:24

mkgal1

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Moreover, note the context isn't of God telling the Jews to flee to the mountains because the Romans were coming to persecute them. Rather it is that God's servants would be delivered up to be afflicted, and they shall be killed, and shall be hated of "all nations" for Christ's name's sake, and that many shall be offended because of Christ, and shall betray one another, and they shall hate one another.
This seems to be what happens when a person doesn't have any other source except the Bible (and maybe some pastors/other teachers that also don't use other historical text). Using ONLY the Bible - the context I see is this:

Matthew 24:3 ~ And what is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?"

Jesus’ Self-Understanding
 
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mkgal1

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Yeah, I can see that you are confused. Show me what I said connected to the physical city of Jersualem and temple system?
When you wrote:

TribulationSigns said:
Now that's what you would call total destruction that can not be repaired, as was the Old Testament Holy City of Jerusalem and the Temple thereof
 
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mkgal1

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Do you not understand what Jesus said, "The temple of His Body." that was being destroyed by His people, Jews?

And you also don't understand that God's people are making up of chosen ones and professed believers. The one who is destroying Christ is the people of the said congregation. Yes, it is "God's people" because they are the people of the prince per context. Didn't Peter, a Jew, denied Christ three times before he went to the Cross? But in Christ's grace, he rebuilt His Congregation in three days (including Peter and all of His faithfuls at that time) and send Gospel message to the Gentiles
You seem to have conflated your groups here (and mislabeling another). You also seem to be forgetting this:

Romans 3:2 ~ First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God.

- but I'm going to leave you to it (at least for now).
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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You're also confused about his points? I'm glad I'm not alone.
You're doing a fine job and I am enjoying you spirit led posts.
This seems to be what happens when a person doesn't have any other source except the Bible (and maybe some pastors/other teachers that also don't use other historical text). Using ONLY the Bible - the context I see is this:

Matthew 24:3 ~ And what is the sign of Your coming and of the end of the age?"

Jesus’ Self-Understanding
Jesus uses a few unique words in that verse and why I like going to the Greek......
Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke's Temple/Jerusalem Discourses harmonized

Matthew and Mark shows them on the Mount of Olives.
Peter and James and John and Andrew are shown in Mark
All 3 ask these 2 questions "when shall these be? and what the sign?"
Matthew 24 has "sign of Thy parousia<2952>
and full end of the age. Mark has "fully concluded"
==============================

Matthew 24:3
Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives, the Disciples came toward to Him according to own saying "be telling to us!
when shall these be being?
and what the sign of Thy parousia<3952> and full-end<4930> of the Age?


Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,
Peter and James and John and Andrew inquired<1905> of Him according to own
4 Tell us! when these shall be?

and what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> all these to be fully concluded<4931>.


Luke 21
7 They inquire yet of Him saying “Teacher!
when then shall these be being?

And what the sign whenever may be being about<3195> these to becoming<1096>?

===============================
Matthew 24 Mount of Olives and Titus's 10th Legion on Mt Olives 70ad

Coincidentally, about 40yrs after this discourse is given, the Romans siege Jerusalem and according to Josephus, the 10th Legion, along with Titus encamped on the eastern side of the City on top of the Mount of Olives, giving them a clear view of the Temple.

Matthew 24:3

Yet of Him sitting on the Mount of the Olives,.......................
Mark 13
3 And of sitting of Him into the Mount of the Olives over against the Temple,

https://www.preteristarchive.com/JewishWars/timeline_military.html

"..probably the greatest single slaughter in ancient history."
ROMAN SIEGE AND SACK OF JERUSALEM


Legio X Fretensis - Wikipedia

By 70, the rebellion in all of Judaea had been crushed, except for Jerusalem and a few fortresses, including Masada. In that year X Fretensis, in conjunction with V Macedonica, XII Fulminata, and XV Apollinaris, began the siege of Jerusalem, stronghold of the rebellion. The Xth camped on the Mount of Olives. During the siege, Legio X gained fame in the effective use of their various war machines.

It was noted that they were able to hurl stones that weighted a talent (about 25 kg) a distance of two furlongs (400 m) or further. The projectiles of their ballistae caused heavy damage to the ramparts. According to Josephus (vol. III of his history of the Judaean war), Larcius Lepidus was the commanding officer of the X Legion. The siege of Jerusalem lasted five months and the besieged population experienced all the terrible rigors of starvation. Finally, the combined assaults of the legions succeeded in taking the city, which was then subjected to destruction.

Legion X soon joins them, making a separate camp on the Mt. of Olives, east of the city ... May 1, 70. Nissan/Xanthicus 14.


302604_bd3c4a55a2acc9d0f36c50211f02864f.jpg



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TribulationSigns

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When you wrote:

Tribulationsigns: "Now that's what you would call total destruction that can not be repaired, as was the Old Testament Holy City of Jerusalem and the Temple thereof"

So, I said, "WHAT YOU WOULD CALL." What YOU believe. Not me. No wondering you are confused.
 
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TribulationSigns

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You seem to have conflated your groups here (and mislabeling another). You also seem to be forgetting this:

Romans 3:2 ~ First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God.

- but I'm going to leave you to it (at least for now).

I am not forgetting Roman 3:2. Need to compare it with rest of the Scripture:

Romans 1:16 KJV
[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

Romans 9:4 KJV
[4] Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;

All the great expressions and foreshadows of the Gospel of Salvation were given to the Jews first in the Word of God, the OLD TESTAMENT. So the Jews had priority in having the Scripture. First the Jews then the Gentiles. In other words, the Jews have a priority over the Gentiles in that the Messiah Himself, Jesus Christ, came first as a Jew to the Jews. So what is your point? That does not change what I said earlier about the congregation as a whole. The congregation of Israel started with the Jews, then the Gentiles, but together they are one in Christ.
 
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mkgal1

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So, I said, "WHAT YOU WOULD CALL." What YOU believe. Not me. No wondering you are confused.
Let's try again.

You wrote:

Tribulationsigns said:
"Now that's what you would call total destruction that can not be repaired, as was the Old Testament Holy City of Jerusalem and the Temple thereof"
You asked this:

TribulationSigns said:
Show me what I said connected to the physical city of Jersualem and temple system?
....and that was what you'd posted.

You DON'T believe the destruction of the Temple was total destruction that couldn't be repaired - or what IS even the point you're trying to make?
 
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TribulationSigns

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Let's try again.

You wrote:


You asked this:


....and that was what you'd posted.

You DON'T believe the destruction of the Temple was total destruction that couldn't be repaired - or what IS even the point you're trying to make?

Read again.

"Now that's what you would call total destruction that can not be repaired, as was the Old Testament Holy City of Jerusalem and the Temple thereof"

Read the whole post regarding Babylon "thrown down" in Revelation instead of one sentence. You missed the point I was making.


 
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mkgal1

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Of course, I know, that you do not understand how covenant/congregation of Israel works. I am going to leave you to it.
So you aren't going to explain this statement (below)? Why post on a discussion board and then refuse to support your arguments?

TribulationSigns said:
He rebuilt His Congregation in three days (including Peter and all of His faithfuls at that time) and send Gospel message to the Gentiles
 
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TribulationSigns

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How come you put that quote in as if I posted that :scratch:......
You need to be more careful about your quotes..........
Congrats..........You are now the first member to make my ignore list.........carry on........

Good! But of course, you will be tempted to read my posts anyway! :)
 
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TribulationSigns

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So you aren't going to explain this statement (below)? Why post on a discussion board and then refuse to support your arguments?


Don't play a game with me here. I have explained John 2:18-21 many times, even on this thread. Look for it if you need an explanation. I am done discussing this with you.

I have testified that Luke 21:24 is not about a physical temple or city of Jerusalem falling by the Romans. Period. If you prefer to look for literal fulfillment based on "history books" that is your prerogative. I go by Word of God as biblical history. Thank you.
 
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mkgal1

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I go by Word of God as biblical history. Thank you.
As do I - and confirmed by historians, that God fulfilled just what He promised with remarkable and meaningful timing.
 
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As do I - and confirmed by historians, that God fulfilled just what He promised with remarkable and meaningful timing.

Again, as I said:

The only history that can prove anything Biblically, is "Biblical History." That is to say, the history of the world as it is written in the Bible alone. Biblical history cannot be proven truth by the writings of the historian Josephus declaring what he believes took place in AD 70. Are we to suppose that God would leave the interpretation of His Holy Word concerning the mountains of flight to Josephus, an unbeliever? We are not to suppose that at all. Holy men of God who declared truth spoke as they were moved by the Holy Ghost (2nd Peter 1:21), Josephus did not. He was not divinely inspired to write anything, and secular writing (no matter how accurate we may think they are) cannot be looked upon as "proof" of prophecy fulfillment. The Holy Spirit, through God's word proves prophecy.
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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TribulationSigns said:
I go by Word of God as biblical history. Thank you.
As do I - and confirmed by historians, that God fulfilled just what He promised with remarkable and meaningful timing.
Hello mkgal....
Isn't the book of Acts considered a historical book?
[Historically, Revelation shows both the birth and ascension of our Lord and Savior.?

Jesus' Birth, Crucifixion, Death, Resurrection and Ascension in Revelation.

Luke 2:
7 and she brought forth her Son — the first-born, and wrapped Him up, and laid Him down in the manger, because there was not for them a place in the guest-chamber.

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a Son, a male,
Who is about to be shepherding<4165> all the nations in iron rod/staff.
and caught away was her Child unto God and His throne,

Acts 1
9 And these things having said — they beholding —
He was taken up, and a cloud did receive Him up from their sight;
10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in His going on, then behold! two Men stood by them in white apparel,
 
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TribulationSigns

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Hello mkgal....
Isn't the book of Acts considered a historical book?

Biblical history...according to Scripture. Not a secular History book per se.

[Historically, Revelation shows both the birth and ascension of our Lord and Savior.?

Jesus' Birth, Crucifixion, Death, Resurrection and Ascension in Revelation.

Luke 2:
7 and she brought forth her Son — the first-born, and wrapped Him up, and laid Him down in the manger, because there was not for them a place in the guest-chamber.

Revelation 12:5
And she brought forth a Son
, a male,
Who is about to be shepherding<4165> all the nations in iron rod/staff.
and caught away was her Child unto God and His throne,

Acts 1
9 And these things having said — they beholding —
He was taken up, and a cloud did receive Him up from their sight;
10 and as they were looking stedfastly to the heaven in His going on, then behold! two Men stood by them in white apparel,

And you got this information from guess where? The Bible? So it Biblical history! :)
 
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LittleLambofJesus

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TribulationSigns said:
Do you not understand what Jesus said, "The temple of His Body." that was being destroyed by His people, Jews?

And you also don't understand that God's people are making up of chosen ones and professed believers. The one who is destroying Christ is the people of the said congregation. Yes, it is "God's people" because they are the people of the prince per context. Didn't Peter, a Jew, denied Christ three times before he went to the Cross? But in Christ's grace, he rebuilt His Congregation in three days (including Peter and all of His faithfuls at that time) and send Gospel message to the Gentiles
You seem to have conflated your groups here (and mislabeling another). You also seem to be forgetting this:
Romans 3:2 ~ First of all, the Jews were entrusted with the whole revelation of God.
-
but I'm going to leave you to it (at least for now).
Jews.......used in 2 verses of Revelation:

Revelation 2:9
I am aware of thee the works, and the tribulation and the poverty, but rich thou are. And the out of the ones saying themselves Judeans to be and not they are but a synagogue of the Satan they are.

Revelation 3:9
Behold! I have given out of the Synagogue of the Satan, of the one saying themselves Judeans to be and not they are, but they are falsifying. Behold! I shall be making them that they shall be arriving and shall before worshiping before the feet of thee and may be knowing that I love thee.
======================
I suppose it would help if we know the biblical definition of "Jew" in the Bible.

History of God's Holy Bible and the so-called Jews
What is a Jew?


Speaking to His elect Church Jesus said, "I know your affliction and your poverty, but you have heavenly riches, and I know the blasphemy of them who say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan . . . Take note, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, who say they are Jews, but are impostors who lie, to come and worship before your feet, and to know that I have loved you" (Revelation 2:9; 3:9).

Speaking to the so-called Jews who were of the sect of the Pharisees (or Judaism) Jesus said, "You serpents, offspring of vipers, how can you escape being sentenced to hell fire? Therefore take notice, I will send you prophets, and wise men, and scribes, some of whom you will kill and crucify; and some of whom you will flog in your synagogues, and persecute from town to town, that upon you may come all the righteous blood that has been shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zachariah the son of Barachiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. I assure you, all these things shall come upon this race" (Matthew 23:33-36).

Jesus identified these so-called Jews as the descendants of Cain.

Speaking to Cain God said, "What have you done? the voice of your brother's blood cries to Me from the ground. And now you are cursed from the earth, which has opened her mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand" (Genesis 4:10-11).

Speaking to Christ's end-time Bride regarding the Words of Jesus, the prophet William Branham said, "Here is a verse that will bear considerable thought, not only because it is most peculiar in its contents, but also it is virtually repeated in an age that is over a thousand years later. . . To begin with, the word, Jews, does not describe the religion of the Jewish people. It refers only to the people of Judah and has the same precise meaning if I were to say I am Irish born. These people were saying that they were actually Jews, real Jews by birth. They were liars. They were not Jews by birth and they weren't Jews by religion."

(The word Jew was coined by Nebuchadnezzar's troops as an abbreviation of the word "Judean." A Jew or Judean is one who is a resident of Judea regardless of his religion, race, or nationality. Every resident of Palestine is a "Jew" whereas the so-called Jews living abroad are not Jews at all, neither by residence, nor by birth, nor by religion. This is confirmed by the Bible in the Old and New Testaments, Jewish historians such as Josephus, Professor of Medieval Jewish History at Tel Aviv University, A. N. Poliak in his book Khazaria (1944, 1951); American historian Professor Dunlop of Columbia University in his article on the Khazars in the Encyclopaedia Judaica (1971); Noam Chomsky in his book, Fateful Triangle, Arthur Koestler in his masterpiece, The Thirteenth Tribe; Professor Heinrich H. Graetz in his History of the Jews, p. 141 (1891-98); Soviet archaeologist M. I. Artamonov in Istoria Khazar, Benjamin Freedman in Facts are Facts, Chief Rabbi of the United States, the late Steven S. Wise, the Message of William Branham the Prophet of Malachi 4:5-6 and Revelation 10:7, every Jewish and all Gentile encyclopaedias affirm that barely any so-called Jew is an Israelite let alone Semitic. Note also that Judaism is Pharisaism based on the Talmud, which is the antithesis of pre-exilic Yahweh Torah or Yahwism, the Law and the Prophets, and accursed of God in Matthew 15:1-9, and Moses in Deuteronomy 5:22; 12:32).

"If all this is true, what were they? They were a deceived people who were already part of the church. They belonged to the false vine."

(Brother Branham is explaining how the Roman Catholic church, which organized at the Hegelian dialectic of the First Nicea Council in AD325, had its beginnings as the First Church of Rome founded in AD36 by the apostles Junias and Andronicus (Romans 16:7). This church apostatised when the elders, who had emigrated from Judea to escape the persecution of the Jews (Acts 8:1), were subsequently expelled from Rome by Emperor Claudius along with all Judeans (Acts 18:2). It was thirteen years before the Judeans could return, and when the Christian elders returned they found the First Church of Rome would not repent).

"They were not of the true church, but of the false church because God said "they were the synagogue of Satan." Now the word for synagogue is not the same word we use for church. In the Bible, church means, "the called out ones," or the "summoned ones." The Psalmist said of these elect people, "Blessed is the man whom THOU CHOOSEST, and CAUSEST to approach unto Thee, that he may dwell in Thy courts" (Psalms 65:4). But the meaning of synagogue is "assembly or gathering." This can be good or bad, but in this case it is bad, for these are they whose assembling is not of God but of their own selves. Isaiah said of them, "Behold, they shall surely gather together, but NOT BY ME: whosoever shall gather together against Thee shall fall for Thy sake" (Isaiah 54:15). And since these were surely against the true vine, God will one day deal with them in destruction."
 
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TribulationSigns

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Jews.......used in 2 verses of Revelation:

"Jews" you said? Yet you used a Bible translation that I feel is pretty poor...like this:

Revelation 2:9
I am aware of thee the works, and the tribulation and the poverty, but rich thou are. And the out of the ones saying themselves Judeans to be and not they are but a synagogue of the Satan they are.

Revelation 3:9
Behold! I have given out of the Synagogue of the Satan, of the one saying themselves Judeans to be and not they are, but they are falsifying. Behold! I shall be making them that they shall be arriving and shall before worshiping before the feet of thee and may be knowing that I love thee.

My KJV reads:

Revelation 2:9 KJV

[9] I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 KJV
[9] Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Why did God use the word "Jews" here? For a good reason, see below:


I suppose it would help if we know the biblical definition of "Jew" in the Bible.

Really? Can you? Let see what Scripture says again:

Revelation 2:9 KJV
[9] I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Revelation 3:9 KJV
[9] Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.

Forget the commentaries you quoted. I do not think they have a correct understanding of the "Jews" Christ t In Revelation 2 and 3. Unfortunately, many people don't understand what the Spirit is saying to the seven churches. The TRUE JEWS are those who are the seed of Christ. Thus those who will be made of the synagogue of Satan, which "say they are Jews," and are not, are DEFINED by God, not by man, or your favorite commentaries or Josephus!

Romans 2:28-29 KJV
[28] For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
[29] But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

My point is Jews as God defines Jews. Just as Gentiles as God defines Gentiles. The problem with most Church prophesy today is that they look at everything strictly from a literal or physical middle east Israel worldview perspective and thus the nations attacking them as the physical nations that surround them. Completely ignoring the Biblical principle that interpretations and definitions belong to God. Completely ignoring that the only Jews in God's sight (Romans 2:28) in the New Testament dispensation are those of the Church, and consequently the Gentiles those unsaved who assaults her. The nations attacking the camp of the saints are not geographical political nations, they are Gentiles according to God's definition, who when Satan is loosed, are deceived of him to bring the unfaithful Church to judgment. Which is ultimately the victory of the saints in the judgment of God.

Revelation 17:16-17
[16] And the ten horns which thou sawest upon the beast, these shall hate the harlot, and shall make her desolate and naked, and shall eat her flesh, and burn her with fire.
[17] For God hath put in their hearts to fulfil his will, and to agree, and give their kingdom unto the beast, until the words of God shall be fulfilled
."

Revelation 11:1-2 KJV
[1] And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
[2] But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

The court which is WITHOUT the temple are people who claim that they are the Jews but they are not. They are professed Christians. The Gentiles are the unsaved world who have nothing to do with Christ or temple in Revelation 11. In other words, you can't have apostasy, counterfeit Christians and false Christs without having those who are spiritually the other nations or Gentiles. For example, Israel against the Nations/Gentiles, the Gentiles against the camp of the Jews. And in the New Testament, that can only be the Church.
 
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