Luke 2:35 interpretations?

[Tigger45]

This verse has always puzzled me. I’d prefer ‘Traditional Theology’ type and especially ECF interpretations.

American Standard Version
Luke 2:35

yea and a sword shall pierce through thine own soul; that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This verse has always puzzled me. I’d prefer ‘Traditional Theology’ type and especially ECF interpretations.

American Standard Version
Luke 2:35

yea and a sword shall pierce through thine own soul; that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.

Basically saying they are not immune and or they or she will suffer the death of their Son. Best to focus on all he said. Also note that the phrase you are referring to is in parenthesis in the NKJ but not in the ASV.
“Behold, this Child is destined for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign which will be spoken against 35 (yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

 

[Tigger45]

Basically saying they are not immune and or they or she will suffer the death of their Son. Best to focus on all he said. Also note that the phrase you are referring to is in parenthesis in the NKJ but not in the ASV.
“Behold, this Child is destined for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign which will be spoken against 35 (yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

Thank you. I should of clarified this in my OP but I’m most interested in the last half of this verse.
Luke 2:35b that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Thank you. I should of clarified this in my OP but I’m most interested in the last half of this verse.
Luke 2:35b that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.

I believe this means that Mary's suffering at the foot of the Cross was intimately linked to the suffering of her Son, in a redemptive way.

Mary, Mediatrix of All Graces

 

[ewq1938]

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

 

[WherevertheWindblows]

Thank you. I should of clarified this in my OP but I’m most interested in the last half of this verse.
Luke 2:35b that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.

I see what you mean almost like a similitude of one as it relates to the many, think Hebrews 4:1 could relate to that one?

 

[WherevertheWindblows]

Heb 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
Heb 4:13 Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do.

I meant Hebrews 4:12 and was overposting you (sorry bout that) lol

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Thank you. I should of clarified this in my OP but I’m most interested in the last half of this verse.
Luke 2:35b that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.

Heart is a Hebrew idiom for mind. So basically it is God reading thoughts , our mind as to our faith in Jesus Christ of Nazareth and that includes Mary and Joseph.

 

[anna ~ grace]

This may also be helpful;

Statement of Purpose - Traditional Theology Statement of Purpose

 

[dzheremi]

HH St. Cyril of Alexandria's commentaries on Luke are available online via the website tertullian.org, which is an excellent repository of translations of early Christian writers (though note well that even though it bears the title "Early Church Fathers", not all of those housed there are orthodox, not even in the slightest, e.g., Philostorgius, Nestorius, Theodore of Mopsuestia, etc). Of most direct interest for your question is the fourth, which covers verses 25 to 35. I'd quote from it directly here but there are a lot footnotes that make a mess of any attempt to read it due to hyperlinks that don't stay as superscripts when pasted into the reply box on this messageboard (hence putting weird random numbers all over the place). Plus, the entire thing really deserves a read, as all of his preserved sermons and writings do. Here's a direct link to the fourth.

 

[Radagast]

Basically saying they are not immune and or they or she will suffer the death of their Son. Best to focus on all he said. Also note that the phrase you are referring to is in parenthesis in the NKJ but not in the ASV.
“Behold, this Child is destined for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign which will be spoken against 35 (yes, a sword will pierce through your own soul also), that the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed.”

The ESV reads: "And Simeon blessed them and said to Mary his mother, 'Behold, this child is appointed for the fall and rising of many in Israel, and for a sign that is opposed (and a sword will pierce through your own soul also), so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed.'"

The brackets reflect an understanding that "so that thoughts from many hearts may be revealed" refers back to "a sign that is opposed."

Note that the Catholic NABRE has the same brackets.

 

[~Anastasia~]

This verse has always puzzled me. I’d prefer ‘Traditional Theology’ type and especially ECF interpretations.

American Standard Version
Luke 2:35

yea and a sword shall pierce through thine own soul; that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.

Catena is my best source - and ironically that verse is blank for commentaries.

 

[icxn]

Here's St Basil's commentary from his epistle to Optimus the Bishop:

By a sword is meant the word which tries and judges our thoughts, which pierces even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of our thoughts. Now every soul in the hour of the Passion was subjected, as it were, to a kind of searching. According to the word of the Lord it is said, All you shall be offended because of me (Matthew 26:3). Simeon therefore prophesies about Mary herself, that when standing by the cross, and beholding what is being done, and hearing the voices, after the witness of Gabriel, after her secret knowledge of the divine conception, after the great exhibition of miracles, she shall feel about her soul a mighty tempest. The Lord was bound to taste of death for every man — to become a propitiation for the world and to justify all men by His own blood. Even you yourself, who hast been taught from on high the things concerning the Lord, shall be reached by some doubt. This is the sword. That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. He indicates that after the offense at the Cross of Christ a certain swift healing shall come from the Lord to the disciples and to Mary herself, confirming their heart in faith in Him. In the same way we saw Peter, after he had been offended, holding more firmly to his faith in Christ. What was human in him was proved unsound, that the power of the Lord might be shown.​

 

[Tigger45]

Here's St Basil's commentary from his epistle to Optimus the Bishop:

By a sword is meant the word which tries and judges our thoughts, which pierces even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of our thoughts. Now every soul in the hour of the Passion was subjected, as it were, to a kind of searching. According to the word of the Lord it is said, All you shall be offended because of me (Matthew 26:3). Simeon therefore prophesies about Mary herself, that when standing by the cross, and beholding what is being done, and hearing the voices, after the witness of Gabriel, after her secret knowledge of the divine conception, after the great exhibition of miracles, she shall feel about her soul a mighty tempest. The Lord was bound to taste of death for every man — to become a propitiation for the world and to justify all men by His own blood. Even you yourself, who hast been taught from on high the things concerning the Lord, shall be reached by some doubt. This is the sword. That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. He indicates that after the offense at the Cross of Christ a certain swift healing shall come from the Lord to the disciples and to Mary herself, confirming their heart in faith in Him. In the same way we saw Peter, after he had been offended, holding more firmly to his faith in Christ. What was human in him was proved unsound, that the power of the Lord might be shown.​

Excellent, thank you very much!

 

[ViaCrucis]

Here's St Basil's commentary from his epistle to Optimus the Bishop:

By a sword is meant the word which tries and judges our thoughts, which pierces even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of our thoughts. Now every soul in the hour of the Passion was subjected, as it were, to a kind of searching. According to the word of the Lord it is said, All you shall be offended because of me (Matthew 26:3). Simeon therefore prophesies about Mary herself, that when standing by the cross, and beholding what is being done, and hearing the voices, after the witness of Gabriel, after her secret knowledge of the divine conception, after the great exhibition of miracles, she shall feel about her soul a mighty tempest. The Lord was bound to taste of death for every man — to become a propitiation for the world and to justify all men by His own blood. Even you yourself, who hast been taught from on high the things concerning the Lord, shall be reached by some doubt. This is the sword. That the thoughts of many hearts may be revealed. He indicates that after the offense at the Cross of Christ a certain swift healing shall come from the Lord to the disciples and to Mary herself, confirming their heart in faith in Him. In the same way we saw Peter, after he had been offended, holding more firmly to his faith in Christ. What was human in him was proved unsound, that the power of the Lord might be shown.​

Beautiful, thank you for sharing this.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[hedrick]

John Calvin comments:

"When the light of the Gospel arises, and persecutions immediately spring up, there is, at the same time, a disclosure of affections of the heart, which had been hitherto concealed: for the lurking-places of human dissimulation are so deep, that they easily remain hidden till Christ comes. But Christ, by his light, discloses every artifice, and unmasks hypocrisy; and to him is properly ascribed the office of laying open the secrets of the heart. But when the cross is added to doctrine, it tries the hearts more to the quick. For those who have embraced Christ by outward profession, often shrink from bearing the cross, and, when they see the Church exposed to numerous calamities, easily desert their post."

See also John 3:20-21.

 

[mark kennedy]

I think what Mary is being warned of is this:

While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”​

He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.” (Matthew 12:46-50)
​

That's gotta hurt, but I think he was busy with his ministry and his family would have to wait. His brothers would author letters the would be included in the canon and Mary, well obviously, is greatly honored among many Christians. But Jesus didn't play favorites, his Apostles got the business end of his double edge sword early and often. She was duly warned, as indeed we all should be, his words heal and his correction isn't always pleasant. Like the other things she experienced with him, I'm sure she treasured them in her heart.

Grace and peace,
Mark

 

[kkamagwi]

Jesus' mistreatment during his earthly ministry would try Mary. She'd feel the hatred directed against her son. It'd be a sword penetrating her, as when she saw the crucifixion.

 

[Tigger45]

Jesus' mistreatment during his earthly ministry would try Mary. She'd feel the hatred directed against her son. It'd be a sword penetrating her, as when she saw the crucifixion.

Exactly. Context, context, context.

 

[1stcenturylady]

This verse has always puzzled me. I’d prefer ‘Traditional Theology’ type and especially ECF interpretations.

American Standard Version
Luke 2:35

yea and a sword shall pierce through thine own soul; that thoughts out of many hearts may be revealed.

It is referring to the symptom of this type of sign - "a sign which will be spoken against." You notice Jesus is that kind of sign for either the rise or the fall of many in Israel. Those who believe in Him rise; those who don't fall and "speak against" Christ.

This is also true in 1 Corinthians 14:22. Tongues is a sign to the unbeliever. But it is referring to the same type of sign - "a sign which will be spoken against." Those who speak against tongues say things like tongues is gibberish, or that they are crazy (vs. 23). And, again, you see in verse 25 that the thoughts of many hearts are revealed which ties this sign to belief vs. unbelief. But instead of about Jesus, it is belief in tongues. It is the whole reason tongues was made to sound so peculiar. It is easy to separate the believers from the unbelievers.