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Featured Lucifer was worship leader in heaven?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Lg2000, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. Lg2000

    Lg2000 Member

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    Not sure if I posted this in the the correct section.
    I hear this said all the time and I never read it in the bible. I'm also looking for it and see nothing on it

    This is all I've seen people post to claim it .
    Ezekiel 28:13
    , “The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes was prepared for you on the day you were created.”
     
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  2. Dave L

    Dave L Well-Known Member Supporter

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    He still is a "worship leader" in many churches.
     
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  3. A_Thinker

    A_Thinker Well-Known Member Supporter

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    There is no real Biblical support for this.

    The Bible speaks much more on the subject of bad/poor leadership (i.e. Saul, the Pharisees, etc.)
     
  4. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    The foundation of God’s throne (the mercy seat) in heaven was His law (ark of the covenant), and Lucifer was once an angel that stood closest to the throne of God, “covering” (meaning “to guard” or “protect”) the law of God. This was his position in heaven.
    ( covering cherub)
    Ezekiel 28:14-16
    Exodus 25:14-20

    All was at peace until “iniquity” was found in Lucifer (Ezekiel 28:15). According to 1 John 3:4, iniquity, or sin, is defined as, “Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.” Lucifer, the angel that was to guard the law of God, the foundation of God’s government, turned against that very law, which resulted in the introduction of sin into the heavenly atmosphere.
     
  5. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Tyre, a city (Lebanon), was very wealthy and considered a "holy" island, it's temples there dating around 2750 B.C.according to Herodotus, some of the oldest on earth...

    These verses are talking about the King of Tyre in particular, although the people of Tyre in general, and gets very ironic in its wording order to point out their great sins against God...

    While you may be able to extrapolate some of this onto Satan, these aren't directly referencing Satan/Lucifer in anyway - unless you think Satan is only a man...

    The sins of Tyre are the same, age old sins that plague mankind. In prosperity they believe themselves to be something they aren't, and can never be.
     
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  6. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    There is the passage in Ezekiel which rebukes the king of Tyre, which some have interpreted as referring to the devil in the same way that many have interpreted the rebuke against the king of Babylon in Isaiah as a reference to the devil.

    The problem is that both are very clearly against human rulers, using celestial language as part of the condemnation.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
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  7. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ezekiel 28 is a type of parable, similar to Isaiah 14 which uses Lucifer within a proverb. Here is the definite proof that God is not just speaking to the flesh king of Tyrus...

    Ezek 28:12-15
    12 Son of man, take up a lamentation upon the king of Tyrus, and say unto him, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Thou sealest up the sum, full of wisdom, and perfect in beauty.

    13 Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.


    Ask yourself; was the flesh king of Tyrus ever in God's Garden of Eden? Absolutely not. Who was then? Satan as "that old serpent" was we know for sure (Revelation 12:9). So God isn't really addressing this to a flesh king of Tyre, but about Satan himself, using the flesh king of Tyrus as a 'type' of allegory.



    14 Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.


    Ask yourself again, was any flesh born king at God's Altar in Heaven? That is the place God is pointing to there, right there at His Altar and Throne in Heaven.

    Also, a "cherub" is a Heavenly created being, not a flesh person. The outstretched winged entities Israel was told to create upon the ark of the covenant were cherubim, representing God's Throne being protected in Heaven by those cherub angelic beings. That was Satan's original job.


    15 Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.
    KJV


    Thus that is about Satan when God originally made him perfect in his ways, and then iniquity was found in him. How? He rebelled against God in coveting His Throne. That is what this Ezekiel 28 chapter is especially about, the coveting of God's Place and His Throne. Same thing in Isaiah 14 about Lucifer.
     
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  8. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    Very musical yes...

    Worship leader in heaven - probably so.
     
  9. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    First thing, I think, that I agree with you about.
     
  10. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    Adam was. He got cast down and out.
    Paradise is in Eden, in the third heaven.
    The Tree of Life is in the midst of the Paradise of God.
    There is a throne there made for the firstborn human being flesh son of God to sit on.
    Adam lost the position, the glory, the right to that throne, and all his seed died in his loins as sons of God to be born to build the house not made with hands for the Glory to indwell, that day, and the right to go in and out of Eden above, and eat of the Tree of Life.
    That is why we must be born again, into the One Living Spirit (Christ) of the second, and only living, "Firstborn son of God", who is God the Word, come in New Creation flesh, to ransom all the seed of Adam back (whosoever will), and clothe us in New Man flesh, "for the Glory" =uncorrupted flesh like His, at our change.
     
  11. The Liturgist

    The Liturgist Traditional Liturgical Christian

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    Indeed. I am convinced Lucifer is not the proper name of the devil. Some Old Testament apocrypha suggests it was Sataniel.
     
  12. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    What you're suggesting is that Adam was the "anointed cherub that covereth", which is about a NON-FLESH ANGELIC being. Last time I looked at God forming Adam in His Garden of Eden (on earth) is that He made Adam flesh. Do I really need to show you that Genesis 2 Scripture about that?
     
  13. DragonFox91

    DragonFox91 Well-Known Member

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    In context, the Ezikiel passage and others in the prophets people think refer to Lucifer, clearly refer to a sinful nation or king. BUT I am pretty sure the Jews interpreted biblical prophecies not in just the face-value context, but other contexts as well. This is why many of the prophecies in the New Testament refer to prophecies in the Old Testament that in context in the OT seem like they have nothing to do w/ the context the NT is presenting it as. We incorrectly look at the face-value context.

    So, those OT prophecies that in context refer to a nation or king, may have a second interpretation referring to Lucifer. I'm not sure tho, I haven't looked into the Lucifer "origins" too closely.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2021
  14. yeshuasavedme

    yeshuasavedme Senior Veteran

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    The anointed cherub that covered is not the language of the Hebrew, and at least one English Bible translation tells it like it is...the angel covered...not Adam, not Satan...
    Cherubim are mighty powerful and holy angels, and not one has fallen. Only some of the Watcher angels have fallen, and can never enter heaven again. Satan is still there, and has authority over earth since the fall of Adam, who sold the kingdom he was set over into the control of the Satan and his evil angels, who are still not cast down, but will be, for the last millennial Day of this present creation -until the grand finale at the end, before the Beginning, which is that 8th Day, and the New Beginning.

    At any rate, Satan is not a fallen Cherub, was never a cherub, is not a fallen angel, and is an evil spirit created to do what he does, which is to try, test, and prove the watcher angels and the Adam creation. He is the accuser, and the Lake of Fire was made for him and his evil angels who are under him. Satan is not everywhere at once, as YHWH is, and has a host, an army, under his control to do what they do, which is to accuse those they Tempt who believe their lies and therefore disqualify themselves for the eternal Glory And fellowship with the One True God.
    Satan could not test Job without permission from God to whom he answers. Satan got permission to try/test Peter, Jesus said, and Jesus said He had prayed for Peter and to strengthen his brethren after he got the victory, so to speak.
    As to where Paradise is, always has been, and always will be, you need to check the Word of God on that.

    2 Cor 12: It is [a]doubtless not profitable for me to boast. I will come to visions and revelations of the Lord: 2 I know a man in Christ who fourteen years ago—whether in the body I do not know, or whether out of the body I do not know, God knows—

    such a one was caught up to the third heaven.

    3 And I know such a man—whether in the body or out of the body I do not know, God knows—

    4 how he was caught up into Paradise

    Revelation 2:7 “He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes I will give to eat from

    the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God.” ’
     
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  15. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That silliness of man's false philosophy above isn't even worth a response. Amazing how much that above is outside of God's Holy Writ and goes directly against it.
     
  16. tturt

    tturt Senior Veteran Supporter

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    Eze 28 and Isa 14
     
  17. MMXX

    MMXX Jesus Loves You

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    He was the heavenly worship leader in the Silmarillion as Melkor.
     
  18. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    none of that is true.
     
  19. BobRyan

    BobRyan Junior Member

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    indeed - even prophecies like Isaiah 7:14, and Isaiah 9 refer to a local event and also a much bigger , epic Gospel story of salvation person.
     
  20. Davy

    Davy Well-Known Member Supporter

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    That maybe is more in the case of the example of Isaiah 14 than Ezekiel 28 though. It's because the flesh king of Tyrus we well know is not an 'anointed cherub', nor was he ever in the Garden of Eden like the Scripture points to (Ezekiel 28:13-14). Thus it is easy to know God was not really speaking of the flesh king of Tyre there, but in reality giving an allegory about Satan. Another factoid given in the Ezekiel 28 chapter to know God was pointing to Satan, is the fact that no flesh man has been judged and sentenced yet to perish. Yet Ezekiel 28:18 reveals the one He pointed to is already judged and sentenced to perish. So this is a no-brainer to know God is pointing to Satan in Ezekiel 28. Even the name "Tyrus" means 'rock', and Satan represents the little 'rock' of Deuteronomy 32:31.
     
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