Lucifer in Isaiah 14 can't be anyone else but Satan...

[he-man]

I have never heard anyone try to say that Jesus is the angel Michael. Angels are created beings. Jesus always existed along with the Father and the Holy Spirit.

Don't know who RWP is do you? Matthew Henry? GILL? Albert Barnes? MATTHEW HENRY? Etc.
Jesus Christ shall appear his church's patron and protector: At that time, when the persecution is at the hottest, Michael shall stand up, v. 1. The angel had told Daniel what a firm friend Michael was to the church, ch. 10:21. He all along showed this friendship in the upper world; the angels knew it; but now Michael shall stand up in his providence, and work deliverance for the Jews, when he sees that their power is gone, Deu. 32:3. 6. Christ is that great prince, for he is the prince of the kings of the earth, Rev. 1:5. And, if he stand up for his church, who can be against it? But this is not all: At that time (that is, soon after) Michael shall stand up for the working out of our eternal salvation; the Son of God shall be incarnate, shall be manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Christ stood for the children of our people when he was made sin and a curse for them, stood in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the cure for them, to bear it from them. He stands for them in the intercession he ever lives to make within the veil, stands up for them, and stands their friend. And after the destruction of antichrist, of whom Antiochus was a type, Christ shall stand at the latter day upon the earth, shall appear for the complete redemption of all his. [Henry, Matthew. "Commentary on Daniel 12." . Blue Letter Bible.]
Michael and his angels fought against the dragon: by whom is meant not a created angel, with whom his name does not agree, it signifying "who is as God" ; but it seems best to interpret it of Jesus Christ, who is with God, is his fellow, is one with the Father, and in whom the fulness of the Godhead dwells bodily: he is the Archangel, the first of the chief princes, the head of all principality and power, who is on the side of the Lord's people, pleads their cause, defends their persons, and saves them; see Jud 1:9; and by "his angels" may be meant either the good angels, literally understood, who are his creatures, his ministers, and whom he employs under him, in protecting his people, and in destroying his enemies; or else the ministers of the Gospel, who are called angels in this book, and who, under Christ, fight the good fight of faith, contend earnestly for it, being valiant for the truth upon earth; or rather the Christian emperors, particularly Constantine and Theodosius, and the Christians with them, who opposed Paganism in the empire, and at last subdued, and cast it out:[GILL]
Michael - There have been very various opinions as to who Michael is. Many Protestant interpreters have supposed that Christ is meant. The reasons usually alleged for this opinion, many of which are very fanciful, may be seen in Hengstenberg (Die Offenbarung des heiliges Johannes), 1:611-622. The reference to Michael here is probably derived from Dan_10:13; Dan_12:1. In those places he is represented as the guardian angel of the people of God; and it is in this sense, I apprehend, that the passage is to be understood here. [Albert Barnes]
The parties-Michael and his angels on one side, and the dragon and his angels on the other: Christ, the great Angel of the covenant, and his faithful followers; and Satan and all his instruments. This latter party would be much superior in number and outward strength to the other; but the strength of the church lies in having the Lord Jesus for the captain of their salvation.[MATTHEW HENRY]

a) You see Michael is a warrior, not a messenger!
b) And Yet 1 Thessalonians 4:16 tells us that ...the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (NKJV) [Brown, John. "Revelation 11:19 - 12:17." . Blue Letter Bible]
The nominative here may be in apposition with polemos, but it is an abnormal construction with no verb, though egeneto (arose) can be understood as repeated. Michael is the champion of the Jewish people (Dan 10:13, Dan 10:21; Dan 12:1) and is called the archangel in Jud 1:9. [RWP]
And the Lamb shall overcome them (kai to arnion nikēsei autous). Future active of nikaō. This is the glorious outcome, victory by the Lamb over the coalition of kings as against the beast before. [RWP]
For he is Lord of lords and King of kings (hoti Kurios kuriōn estin kai Basileus basileōn). The same words are again descriptive of Christ in Rev 19:16 [RWP]

 

[he-man]

This is off topic to the thread so please don't post it anymore. Make a new thread if you want, this thread is about who Lucifer is.

Are you saying Lucifer is not the BEAST? Who is like unto the beast?

 

[StevenBelievin]

Don't know who RWP is do you? Matthew Henry? GILL? Albert Barnes? MATTHEW HENRY? Etc.
Jesus Christ shall appear his church's patron and protector: At that time, when the persecution is at the hottest, Michael shall stand up, v. 1. The angel had told Daniel what a firm friend Michael was to the church, ch. 10:21. He all along showed this friendship in the upper world; the angels knew it; but now Michael shall stand up in his providence, and work deliverance for the Jews, when he sees that their power is gone, Deu. 32:3. 6. Christ is that great prince, for he is the prince of the kings of the earth, Rev. 1:5. And, if he stand up for his church, who can be against it? But this is not all: At that time (that is, soon after) Michael shall stand up for the working out of our eternal salvation; the Son of God shall be incarnate, shall be manifested to destroy the works of the devil. Christ stood for the children of our people when he was made sin and a curse for them, stood in their stead as a sacrifice, bore the cure for them, to bear it from them. He stands for them in the intercession he ever lives to make within the veil, stands up for them, and stands their friend. And after the destruction of antichrist, of whom Antiochus was a type, Christ shall stand at the latter day upon the earth, shall appear for the complete redemption of all his. [Henry, Matthew. "Commentary on Daniel 12." . Blue Letter Bible.]
Michael and his angels fought against the dragon: by whom is meant not a created angel, with whom his name does not agree, it signifying "who is as God" ; but it seems best to interpret it of Jesus Christ, who is with God, is his fellow, is one with the Father, and in whom the fulness of the Godhead dwells bodily: he is the Archangel, the first of the chief princes, the head of all principality and power, who is on the side of the Lord's people, pleads their cause, defends their persons, and saves them; see Jud 1:9; and by "his angels" may be meant either the good angels, literally understood, who are his creatures, his ministers, and whom he employs under him, in protecting his people, and in destroying his enemies; or else the ministers of the Gospel, who are called angels in this book, and who, under Christ, fight the good fight of faith, contend earnestly for it, being valiant for the truth upon earth; or rather the Christian emperors, particularly Constantine and Theodosius, and the Christians with them, who opposed Paganism in the empire, and at last subdued, and cast it out:[GILL]
Michael - There have been very various opinions as to who Michael is. Many Protestant interpreters have supposed that Christ is meant. The reasons usually alleged for this opinion, many of which are very fanciful, may be seen in Hengstenberg (Die Offenbarung des heiliges Johannes), 1:611-622. The reference to Michael here is probably derived from Dan_10:13; Dan_12:1. In those places he is represented as the guardian angel of the people of God; and it is in this sense, I apprehend, that the passage is to be understood here. [Albert Barnes]
The parties-Michael and his angels on one side, and the dragon and his angels on the other: Christ, the great Angel of the covenant, and his faithful followers; and Satan and all his instruments. This latter party would be much superior in number and outward strength to the other; but the strength of the church lies in having the Lord Jesus for the captain of their salvation.[MATTHEW HENRY]

a) You see Michael is a warrior, not a messenger!
b) And Yet 1 Thessalonians 4:16 tells us that ...the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. (NKJV) [Brown, John. "Revelation 11:19 - 12:17." . Blue Letter Bible]
The nominative here may be in apposition with polemos, but it is an abnormal construction with no verb, though egeneto (arose) can be understood as repeated. Michael is the champion of the Jewish people (Dan 10:13, Dan 10:21; Dan 12:1) and is called the archangel in Jud 1:9. [RWP]
And the Lamb shall overcome them (kai to arnion nikēsei autous). Future active of nikaō. This is the glorious outcome, victory by the Lamb over the coalition of kings as against the beast before. [RWP]
For he is Lord of lords and King of kings (hoti Kurios kuriōn estin kai Basileus basileōn). The same words are again descriptive of Christ in Rev 19:16 [RWP]

Well, I guess they're wrong too if they think that when the bible says "Michael" it's really "Jesus" wearing a Michael the Archangel costume... Revelation 12 is a retelling of the war in heaven before the fall of man when Satan was cast down / out. It's not the last battle at the Second coming of Christ where Jesus is on the white horse. Michael is the restrainer in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. When he stands up it is to stop restraining the mystery of iniquity (the Antichrist). Notice it is directly when Michael stands up that the tribulation starts? That's because he's the one restraining it from happening now. The Pre-Tribbers would like to believe it is either the church or the Holy Spirit, but that isn't true. Both the church and the Holy Spirit will be on the earth when the antichrist is revealed. Why else would Jesus tell His disciples "When YOU see the abomination that causes desolation spoken of in Daniel standing in the holy place". The warning was to the disciples and the church that followed after. But that's a subject for a different thread..

 

[ewq1938]

Are you saying Lucifer is not the BEAST? Who is like unto the beast?

The first beast is a governmental system Satan uses to help him rule the world.

 

[he-man]

Well, I guess they're wrong too if they think that when the bible says "Michael" it's really "Jesus" wearing a Michael the Archangel costume... Revelation 12 is a retelling of the war in heaven before the fall of man when Satan was cast down / out. It's not the last battle at the Second coming of Christ where Jesus is on the white horse.

That is funny because what John says leaves out your devil theory because according to him it hadn't happened before the book was written! John says, 'things which must shortly come to pass and things which must be hereafter. '
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Tell my why you are not foolish when you say you think your devil is cast down from heaven when you consider what Job says in chapter 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Job says that all the evil which the LORD had brought upon him Job 42:11
The Satan doctrine is one of the most deceptive and corrupt doctrines to ever enter Christendom, and which has been embraced and promoted by false teachers for thousands of years in as much as from the hand of God only good can come, but against him, the Creator of the universe, no opposing being could originally exist but through their own fault they fell (John 8, 44; 2 Pet. 2, 4; Jude 6); when Christ shall appear to overthrow the kingdom of [death] (1 Cor. 15, 26; Heb. 2, 14; 1 John 2, 8). SEE [Winer, 2, 385]
At an earlier stage of the language it might have been possible to establish different renderings, but now the English equivalents are so stereotyped that any change seems impossible. Thus the rendering of διαβολος and διαμονιον by the same word 'devil' is a grievous loss ; and it is much to be regretted that Wycliffe's translation of διαμονιον by ' fiend ' was not adopted by Tyndale, in which case it would probably have become the current rendering.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Hillel , son of the nm. morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
The name is a cognate of the Hebrew word Shachar (שחר) meaning dawn.
In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary" or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge) Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.
Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches. There is no unambiguous reference to the Devil in the Torah, the Prophets, or the Writings. [Carus P. History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil]
Against this is his rationalist approach to the topic of the devil and supernatural evil. David Joris anticipated the views of Thomas Hobbes, John Epps and Dr. John Thomas in interpreting the devil as an allegory. David Joris (c. 1501–1556)
Later than Muggleton, but earlier than Bekker, Newton came to the same conclusion as both of them – that the devil in Scripture was never the supernatural evil being of ‘orthodox’ theology, and that all temptation comes from the lust of the heart: The “Devil”, then, is a symbol of lust and an vivid hypostatization of idolatry in aggregate. This language cannot be reconciled with the orthodox position.’
[Stephen Snobelen, ‘Lust, Pride, And Ambition: Isaac Newton And The Devil’, pages 7, 8,9,10,11,12 November 2002]

 

[ewq1938]

The subject of this thread is identifying Lucifer, not whether or not the devil exists so please no more off topic. Start a new thread to debate that please.

That is funny because what John says leaves out your devil theory because according to him it hadn't happened before the book was written! John says, 'things which must shortly come to pass and things which must be hereafter. '
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Tell my why you are not foolish when you say you think your devil is cast down from heaven when you consider what Job says in chapter 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Job says that all the evil which the LORD had brought upon him Job 42:11
The Satan doctrine is one of the most deceptive and corrupt doctrines to ever enter Christendom, and which has been embraced and promoted by false teachers for thousands of years in as much as from the hand of God only good can come, but against him, the Creator of the universe, no opposing being could originally exist but through their own fault they fell (John 8, 44; 2 Pet. 2, 4; Jude 6); when Christ shall appear to overthrow the kingdom of [death] (1 Cor. 15, 26; Heb. 2, 14; 1 John 2, 8). SEE [Winer, 2, 385]
At an earlier stage of the language it might have been possible to establish different renderings, but now the English equivalents are so stereotyped that any change seems impossible. Thus the rendering of διαβολος and διαμονιον by the same word 'devil' is a grievous loss ; and it is much to be regretted that Wycliffe's translation of διαμονιον by ' fiend ' was not adopted by Tyndale, in which case it would probably have become the current rendering.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Hillel , son of the nm. morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
The name is a cognate of the Hebrew word Shachar (שחר) meaning dawn.
In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary" or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge) Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.
Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches. There is no unambiguous reference to the Devil in the Torah, the Prophets, or the Writings. [Carus P. History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil]
Against this is his rationalist approach to the topic of the devil and supernatural evil. David Joris anticipated the views of Thomas Hobbes, John Epps and Dr. John Thomas in interpreting the devil as an allegory. David Joris (c. 1501–1556)
Later than Muggleton, but earlier than Bekker, Newton came to the same conclusion as both of them – that the devil in Scripture was never the supernatural evil being of ‘orthodox’ theology, and that all temptation comes from the lust of the heart: The “Devil”, then, is a symbol of lust and an vivid hypostatization of idolatry in aggregate. This language cannot be reconciled with the orthodox position.’
[Stephen Snobelen, ‘Lust, Pride, And Ambition: Isaac Newton And The Devil’, pages 7, 8,9,10,11,12 November 2002]

 

[StevenBelievin]

No, The Satan doctrine is one of the most deceptive and corrupt doctrines to ever enter Christendom, and which has been embraced and promoted by false teachers for thousands of years in as much as from the hand of God only good can come, but against him, the Creator of the universe, no opposing being could originally exist but through their own fault they fell (John 8, 44; 2 Pet. 2, 4; Jude 6); when Christ shall appear to overthrow the kingdom of [death] (1 Cor. 15, 26; Heb. 2, 14; 1 John 2, 8). SEE [Winer, 2, 385]
At an earlier stage of the language it might have been possible to establish different renderings, but now the English equivalents are so stereotyped that any change seems impossible. Thus the rendering of διαβολος and διαμονιον by the same word 'devil' is a grievous loss ; and it is much to be regretted that Wycliffe's translation of διαμονιον by ' fiend ' was not adopted by Tyndale, in which case it would probably have become the current rendering.
Isa 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Hillel , son of the nm. morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!
The name is a cognate of the Hebrew word Shachar (שחר) meaning dawn.
In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary" or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge) Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition. And you Also quoted Revelation 12 is a retelling of the war in heaven before the fall of man when Satan was cast down / out. That is funny because what John says leaves out your identifying Lucifer theory as null and void because according to him it hadn't happened before the book was written! John says, 'things which must shortly come to pass and things which must be hereafter. '
Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:
4:1 After this I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
Tell my why you are not foolish when you say you think your identifying Lucifer as cast down from heaven when you consider what Job says in chapter 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.
19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.
Job says that all the evil which the LORD had brought upon him Job 42:11
Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches. There is no unambiguous reference to the Devil in the Torah, the Prophets, or the Writings. [Carus P. History of the Devil and the Idea of Evil]
Against this is his rationalist approach to the topic of the devil and supernatural evil. David Joris anticipated the views of Thomas Hobbes, John Epps and Dr. John Thomas in interpreting the devil as an allegory. David Joris (c. 1501–1556)
Later than Muggleton, but earlier than Bekker, Newton came to the same conclusion as both of them – that the devil in Scripture was never the supernatural evil being of ‘orthodox’ theology, and that all temptation comes from the lust of the heart: The “Devil”, then, is a symbol of lust and an vivid hypostatization of idolatry in aggregate. This language cannot be reconciled with the orthodox position.’
[Stephen Snobelen, ‘Lust, Pride, And Ambition: Isaac Newton And The Devil’, pages 7, 8,9,10,11,12 November 2002]

So in Luke 10:18 when Jesus said He saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, he was referring to a symbol of lust in the heart? I think you should stop reading heretical books. Jesus knew that Satan was very real and so did his disciples. Pretty sure Paul was convinced as well. Satan would very much like people to think he isn't real, and it would seem he has convinced you.

 

[he-man]

So in Luke 10:18 when Jesus said He saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, he was referring to a symbol of lust in the heart? I think you should stop reading heretical books. Jesus knew that Satan was very real and so did his disciples. Pretty sure Paul was convinced as well. Satan would very much like people to think he isn't real, and it would seem he has convinced you.

It was not a literal satan that fell, it was the figure of all superstitions about demons. The phrase “from heaven” is to be referred to the lightning, and does not mean that he saw “Satan” fall “from heaven,” but that he fell as quick as lightning [falls] from heaven or from the clouds. Luk 10:18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven. And Paul said in 2Co 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
The case of tēi sarki can be either locative (in) or dative (for). What was it? Certainly it was some physical malady that persisted. All sorts of theories are held (malaria, eye-trouble, epilepsy, insomnia, migraine or sick-headache, etc.). Messenger of Satan (aggelos Satana). Angel of Satan, the affliction personified.[RWP]
What this thorn in the flesh might be has given birth to a multitude of conjectures: Tertullian thought it dolor auriculae, the ear ache; Chrysostom, κεφαλαλγια, the head ache; Cyprian, carnis et corporis multa ac gravia tormenta, many and grievous bodily torments. I believe the apostle to refer simply to the distresses he had endured through the opposition he met with at Corinth; which were as painful and grievous to him as a thorn in his flesh. The messenger of Satan - Another mode of expressing what he calls the thorn in the flesh; and he seems most plainly to refer to the false apostle at Corinth. [CLARKE]
Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.
The word devil is derived from the Greek word diabolos ("to slander"), and the term devil can refer to a greater demon in the hierarchy of Hell. At the same time, the term devil is also derived from the same Indo-European root word for deva, which roughly translates as "angel." It is easy to see how modern religions mistakenly adapted the satan to mean "fallen angel".
The idea that there is a God in heaven above who fights against a god of the underworld, or hell, is not monotheism, however, it is the same duality found in other pagan faiths. Through His prophet Isaiah, God profoundly states, "I form light and create darkness, I make peace and CREATE evil; I am God, I do all these things" (Isaiah 45:7).Consider this: If there were such an opponent and foe of God like a Satan, as Christianity claims, don't you think God is capable of eliminating His created angel with a mere breath - or thought (anthropomorphically speaking)? If God spoke him (Satan) into existence; God could simply quit speaking and Satan would simply cease to exist. (Abraham Joshua Heschel, The Prophets, Jewish Publication Society, 1962, Philip Birnbaum, Encyclopedia of Jewish Concepts, Hebrew Publishing Company, 1991, Aryeh Kaplan, Jewish Meditation,
Schocken Books, 1985.).

 

[Sammy-San]

Angels are not bodiless spirits. When they are called spirits it means something different than a ghost/spirit.

Angel statues and images

Angels are ‘spirit’ not flesh, and they never were flesh – which is the reason angels should not be portrayed as people, or portrayed using images fashioned after the flesh. This is just one of man’s devices!

 

[Sammy-San]

Nope, Angels are angelic men:

Dan_9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

This man is an angel.

30 Quick Facts About Angels

6. They can take the appearance of men. The angels who rescued Lot and his family from Sodom and Gomorrah were so convincing appeared as men that the males of the city wanted to have sexual relations with them (Read Genesis 9:1-9). In Hebrews 13:2 it reads “2 Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels.”

 

[real tree]

So in Luke 10:18 when Jesus said He saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven, he was referring to a symbol of lust in the heart? I think you should stop reading heretical books. Jesus knew that Satan was very real and so did his disciples. Pretty sure Paul was convinced as well. Satan would very much like people to think he isn't real, and it would seem he has convinced you.

Im not claiming to agree with the guy in the video, he claims that satan still dwells in heaven, Do you feel that he is twisting scripture. Im just looking for opinions from fellow Christians.

 

[StevenBelievin]

Im not claiming to agree with the guy in the video, he claims that satan still dwells in heaven, Do you feel that he is twisting scripture. Im just looking for opinions from fellow Christians.

No Satan doesn't dwell (live) in heaven. I don't have time to watch a 23 minute video right now though..

 

[he-man]

Im not claiming to agree with the guy in the video, he claims that satan still dwells in heaven, Do you feel that he is twisting scripture. Im just looking for opinions from fellow Christians.

Too Bad but
Deu 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD He is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Deu 3:24 ...for what God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works, and according to thy might?
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Psalm 73:25 Whom have I in heaven but you? ..but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.
No One dwells in heaven but God with Jesus on His right hand!
there is none elsebut the Lord: Deu_4:35; Jos_2:11; 1Ch_29:11; 2Ch_20:6; Psa_115:3, Psa_135:6; Dan_4:35

 

[real tree]

Thankyou

 

[real tree]

Too Bad but
Deu 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in thine heart, that the LORD He is God in heaven above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Deu 3:24 ...for what God is there in heaven or in earth, that can do according to thy works, and according to thy might?
Gen 1:1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Psalm 73:25 Whom have I in heaven but you? ..but God is the strength of my heart and my portion forever.
No One dwells in heaven but God with Jesus on His right hand!
there is none elsebut the Lord: Deu_4:35; Jos_2:11; 1Ch_29:11; 2Ch_20:6; Psa_115:3, Psa_135:6; Dan_4:35

Thankyou

 

[Sammy-San]

13 As for the wheels, it was cried unto them in my hearing, O wheel.

14 And every one had four faces: the first face was the face of a cherub, and the second face was the face of a man, and the third the face of a lion, and the fourth the face of an eagle.

These 4 faces don't belong to the Cherubs but the wheels which had four faces, one being the face of a Cherub.

Ezekiel 1-3-10.
Ezekiel 10 1-22.

 

[UN161]

Lucifer is not a name but a word
In 2 Peter 1:19, the KJV renders the Greek word φωσφόρος (phosphoros) as ‘day star.’ Again, the Latin Vulgate has lucifer here:

et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem cui bene facitis adtendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies inlucescat et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris. 2 Peter 1:19. It just means morning star.

In English. Surely Lucifer is not Satan.
We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

 

[ewq1938]

The serpent was in the garden of Eden.
Lucifer was in the garden of Eden.
Satan was the serpent in the garden of Eden.

Satan fell from heaven.
Lucifer fell from heaven.

Satan will be cast into a pit.
Lucifer will be cast into a pit.

So how exactly is Lucifer not Satan?

 

[UN161]

This is talking about the king of Babylon, and how he wanted to be a God, and that most kings have proper royal burials, and God is making sure this king does not have anything after death. If satan was cast out of heaven in this, how did he keep going back later?


Lucifer is not a name! Its a latin word, that means light bearer, shining light morning star, Nothing more! The kjv writers didn't know how to translate this word in this verse so they left the latin word in there.

All the kings of the nations lie in glory,

Each in his own tomb.

19 “But you have been cast out of your tomb

Like a rejected branch,

Clothed with the slain who are pierced with a sword,

Who go down to the stones of the pit

Like a trampled corpse.

 

[ewq1938]

Lucifer is not a name! Its a latin word, that means light bearer, shining light morning star, Nothing more!

So is Gabriel not a name anymore? Is it merely a Hebrew word that means man of God? Or can it be both? Can Lucifer be both as well?


H1403
גּבריאל
gabrı̂y'êl
gab-ree-ale'
From H1397 and H410; man of God; Gabriel, an archangel: - Gabriel.