Lucifer in Isaiah 14 can't be anyone else but Satan...

[Sammy-San]

I disagree. Angels are men, just not human men.

Dan_9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Still going to claim angels aren't men?

Mind-Blowing Story of Russian Cosmonauts Who Saw Angels in Space - TechEBlog

All of the cosmonauts reported seeing the faces of seven angels who were hovering just outside the space station. They told ground control they were humanoid in appearance (faces and bodies looked human), but they had wings and halos. These beings kept pace with the space station for 10-minutes before vanishing.

 

[ewq1938]

are the living beasts cherubim?

No.

 

[Sammy-San]

No.

Why are they not angels if they are heavenly beings?

 

[ewq1938]

Why are they not angels if they are heavenly beings?

You asked if the beasts in Rev were Cherubim and I said no. The above question doesn't make any sense.

 

[Sammy-San]

You asked if the beasts in Rev were Cherubim and I said no. The above question doesn't make any sense.

Do you believe the angels in space story is of God?

 

[ewq1938]

Do you believe the angels in space story is of God?

I have no idea.

 

[Sammy-San]

Is there scripture to prove God changed what they looked like?

What about testimonies of people who saw them?

 

[ewq1938]

What about testimonies of people who saw them?

They don't affect my original answer.

 

[Sammy-San]

They don't affect my original answer.

Post edited.

 

[he-man]

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

Reading Isa 14:4, "That you shall take up this proverb against the **king of Babylon,** and say, How has the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased!", it becomes clear that this is the king of Babylon and his nation that is being spoken of here.
While this mythological information is available to scholars today via translated Babylonian cuneiform text taken from clay tablets, it was not as readily available at the time of the Latin translation of the Bible.
Thus, early Christian tradition interpreted the passage as a reference to the moment Satan was thrown from Heaven. Lucifer became another name for Satan and has remained so due to Christian dogma and popular tradition.
Well, you also forgot Ezekiel 28:8 They shall bring thee down to the pit, and thou shalt die the deaths of them that are slain in the midst of the seas.
Job says that all the evil which the LORD had brought upon him
Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him
In mainstream Judaism there is no concept of a devil like in mainstream Christianity or Islam. In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan means "the adversary" or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge).
Much "Satanic" lore does not originate from actual Satanists, but from Christians. Best-known would be the medieval folklore and theology surrounding demons and witches.
But in truth, the question touches on two mysteries, the relation of the infinite to the finite sρirit, and the permission of the existence of evil under the government of him whom is "the Good." As a part of these it must be viewed —to the latter especially it belongs; and this latter, while it is the great mystery of all, is also one in which the facts are proved to us by incontrovertible evidence.—Smith, s. v.
Lev. 17, 7, the word translated " deνil" is (sair', hairy), ordinarily a"goat," but rendered " satyr" in Isa. 34, 14 ; probably alluding to the wood-daemons, resembling he-goats, supposed to live in deserts, and which were an objects of idolatry and beast worship upon the Heathens.
The belief of the Hebrews down to the Babylonian exile seems but dimly to have recognized either Satan or demons, at least as a dogmatic tenet, nor had it many occasions for them, since it treated moral evils as a properly humans act (comp. Gen. 3), and always as subjective and concrete, but regarded misfortunes according to teleological axioms, as a punishment deserved on account of sin at the hand of a righteous God, who inflicted it especially by the agency of one of his angels (2 Sam. 24,16; comp. 2 kings xix, 35), and was according looked upon as the proper author of every afflictive dispensation (Amos 3, 64, Apparitions were part of the popular creed : there were beings inimical to mankind inhabiting solitude, but not yet adopted in the association of religious ideas.
Daemons are not mentioned in the canonical books of the Old Test., unless (with many interpreters) we understand "the host of the high ones" in Isa. 24, 21 [the kings of the earth, comp. Dan. 8. 8), the “he goat”] (comp. Isa. 14, 12), and interpret the whole passage as referring to the punishment [of the King of Babylon].
The Satan doctrine is one of the most deceptive and corrupt doctrines to ever enter Christendom, and which has been embraced and promoted by false teachers for thousands of years.
For Newton, therefore, demons were figures for disordered psychotic states. The cases of demon-possession in the Synoptic Gospels do not describe the activity of literal devils, but instead reflect the (mistaken) beliefs of first-century Jews.’
‘Newton laid the blame for the rise of the pagan doctrines about demons in the Church at the door of his ecclesiastical nemesis Athanasius.
Later than Muggleton, but earlier than Bekker, Newton came to the same conclusion as both of them – that the devil in Scripture was never the supernatural evil being of ‘orthodox’ theology, and that all temptation comes from the lust of the heart:
Newton’s “Paradoxical questions concerning Athanasius,” an important manuscript held at the Clark Library dating from the early 1690s, makes this clear’
The “Devil”, then, is a symbol of lust and an vivid hypostatization of idolatry in aggregate.
This language cannot be reconciled with the orthodox position.’
Stephen Snobelen, ‘Lust, Pride, And Ambition:
Isaac Newton And The Devil’, pages 7, 8,9,10,11,12 November 2002
2 Peter 1:19 And so we have the prophetic word confirmed, which you do well to heed as a light that shines in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts; (20) knowing this first, that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, (21) for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Sammy-San]

They don't affect my original answer.

Can we at least agree what angels look like doesn't matter-following God matters?

 

[ewq1938]

Can we at least agree what angels look like doesn't matter-following God matters?

Everything matters. Some things simply matter more than others.

 

[Sammy-San]

Everything matters. Some things simply matter more than others.

Do you believe the appearance of angels matters?

 

[ewq1938]

I said, "Everything matters."

 

[Sammy-San]

You asked if the beasts in Rev were Cherubim and I said no. The above question doesn't make any sense.

Ezekiel 10 20.

These were the living creatures I had seen beneath the God of Israel by the Kebar River, and I realized that they were cherubim.

 

[Sammy-San]

Angels are "actual men"...

So Adam wasn't the first man?

 

[ewq1938]

So Adam wasn't the first man?

I've repeatedly said Angels are men, but not human men. Please note the difference.

 

[Sammy-San]

I've repeatedly said Angels are men, but not human men. Please note the difference.

Do you think the he is a reference to authority?

 

[ewq1938]

Do you think the he is a reference to authority?

"he"? No.

 

[Sammy-San]

"he"? No.

Are all angels male or are some female?

However, Matthew 22:30 does highlight one important and often overlooked aspect of this discussion. Angels are not human, so we should not assume they live and function in the same way humans do. The Bible clearly presents angels as males, yet that portrayal may be an allowance for our limited understanding. Angels may truly exist in a manner in which gender is not the same as we understand it.