Lucifer in Isaiah 14 can't be anyone else but Satan...

[jesse67]

Never read this before?

Rev 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.

If one doesn't that the right "ear" he won't hear what's being spoken...

The one that overcometh is the one who believes that Jesus is the son of God.
1 John 5:5 - Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

Therefore the one who has the ear to hear is the one who believes that Jesus is the son of God. Therefore that person has the right ear

 

[Sammy-San]

He is an angelic man as all angels are including Satan. The Hebrew word for man can mean human man or a male as opposed to a female and not limited to humans only.

Rev 21:17 And he measured the wall thereof, an hundred and forty and four cubits, according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel.

Here an angel is called a man but is clear to make sure this man was an angel. They are synonymous terms.

The proper rendering is "according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel; of an angel." That is, the measure here used by the angel is that used by men. It's not saying angels ARE men-youtube quoted.

 

[Der Alte]

Begin quote

There is no "Lucifer" in the Jewish translations.

1917 JPS Isa 14:12
(12) How art thou fallen from heaven, O day-star, son of the morning! How art thou cut down to the ground, that didst cast lots over the nations!

Pre-Christian Targum
Isa 14:12 How art thou cast down from on high, who wast shining among the sons of men as the star Venus* among the stars: thou art dashed down to the earth, who wast a slaughterer among the nations.
* Literally " as the bright star." Often met with in the rabbinical writings, signifying the planet Venus.

225 BC LXX Isa 14:12 πῶς ἐξέπεσεν ἐκ τοῦ οὐρανοῦ ὁ ἑωσφόρος ὁ πρωὶ ἀνατέλλων; συνετρίβη εἰς τὴν γῆν ὁ ἀποστέλλων πρὸς πάντα τὰ ἔθνη.
phōsphoros φωσφόρος foce-for'-os
From G5457 and G5342; light bearing (“phosphorus”), that is, specifically) the morning star (figuratively): - day star.
ἕως heōs heh'-oce
Of uncertain affinity; a conjugation, preposition and adverb of continuance, until (of time and place): - even (until, unto), (as) far (as), how long, (un-) til (-l), (hither-, un-, up) to, while (-s).​

End quote.

ἑωσφόρος, highlighted in red, in the LXX above is a compound word formed from eos and phosphoros. Definitions above.

 

[ewq1938]

The proper rendering is "according to the measure of a man, that is, of the angel; of an angel." That is, the measure here used by the angel is that used by men. It's not saying angels ARE men.

I disagree. Angels are men, just not human men.

Dan_9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Still going to claim angels aren't men?

 

[Sammy-San]

I disagree. Angels are men, just not human men.

Dan_9:21 Yea, whiles I was speaking in prayer, even the man Gabriel, whom I had seen in the vision at the beginning, being caused to fly swiftly, touched me about the time of the evening oblation.

Still going to claim angels aren't men?

Do angels have wings? So angels are men of an ethereal form?

 

[ewq1938]

Do angels have wings? So angels are men of an ethereal form?

Cherubim and Seraphim do, I don't believe regular angels do. Angel's male beings in bodies similar if not the same to the spiritual body humans seek to receive much like Christ's resurrected body. Flesh and bone but incorruptible:

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

 

[Sammy-San]

Cherubim and Seraphim do, I don't believe regular angels do. Angel's male beings in bodies similar if not the same to the spiritual body humans seek to receive much like Christ's resurrected body. Flesh and bone but incorruptible:

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Is ethereal the right word to use?

 

[ewq1938]

Is ethereal the right word to use?

As long as it's understood properly:

e·the·re·al
(ĭ-thîr′ē-əl)
adj.
1. Extremely light or delicate: "An ant lion ... is lovely, long-bodied like a damselfly, with a pair of ethereal wings" (Jennifer Ackerman).
2.
a. Of the celestial spheres; heavenly.
b. Spiritual or otherworldly.
3. Chemistry Of or relating to ether.


Definition of ethereal

1. 1a : of or relating to the regions beyond the earthb : celestial, heavenlyc : unworldly, spiritual
   

 

[Sammy-San]

Cherubim and Seraphim do, I don't believe regular angels do. Angel's male beings in bodies similar if not the same to the spiritual body humans seek to receive much like Christ's resurrected body. Flesh and bone but incorruptible:

Luk_24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

Do cherubim look different from men? the verse about the face of an a man and a cherub imply a difference in features.

i read a youtube comment on the issue of angels and gender saying, "
We differentiate male from female because humans are divided up into the two genders. When non-gender supernatural beings are spoken of as he, him, etc. it doesn't make them male because it requires 2 genders for there to be such a distinction."

 

[ewq1938]

Do cherubim look different from men? the verse about the face of an a man and a cherub imply a difference in features.

Actually whatever had the multiple faces had a face of a man and a face of a Cherub so a Cherubs face is solitary just as the face of a man is. I think Ezekiel is describing something different that had the faces of other beings.

i read a youtube comment on the issue of angels and gender saying, "
We differentiate male from female because humans are divided up into the two genders. When non-gender supernatural beings are spoken of as he, him, etc. it doesn't make them male because it requires 2 genders for there to be such a distinction."

Except Adam was a man before Eve was created so that persons theory falls apart.

 

[Sammy-San]

Actually whatever had the multiple faces had a face of a man and a face of a Cherub so a Cherubs face is solitary just as the face of a man is. I think Ezekiel is describing something different that had the faces of other beings.




Except Adam was a man before Eve was created so that persons theory falls apart.

do cherubim look like men or like some ethereal angelic being?

 

[ewq1938]

do cherubim look like men or like some ethereal angelic being?

The seem to be described as having two wings although I don't know if that's literal or symbolism but they would look like a human male.

 

[Sammy-San]

The seem to be described as having two wings although I don't know if that's literal or symbolism but they would look like a human male.

does that verse in daniel describe gabriel as with wings?

 

[ewq1938]

does that verse in daniel describe gabriel as with wings?

No.

 

[Sammy-San]

No.

are cherubim and serpahim angels-i've read they are not.

 

[ewq1938]

are cherubim and serpahim angels-i've read they are not.

Angel simply means a messenger but heavenly angels are heavenly beings with different jobs and titles. IMO Cherubim are high level angels but Seraphim are a different type of being.

Isa_6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

Rev_4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev calls these 6 winged being as "beasts" so I believe they are different than Cherubim or angels.

 

[Sammy-San]

Angel simply means a messenger but heavenly angels are heavenly beings with different jobs and titles. IMO Cherubim are high level angels but Seraphim are a different type of being.

Isa_6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

Rev_4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev calls these 6 winged being as "beasts" so I believe they are different than Cherubim or angels.

are angel and heavenly being synonymous or there's a difference?

 

[ewq1938]

are angel and heavenly being synonymous or there's a difference?

Since angel can be anyone serving as a messenger I like to use heavenly angel or heavenly being to describe literal angels. Humans have been called angels in scripture so this tends to help identify exactly who is meant.

 

[ewq1938]

Numbers 21:8 And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live.


serpent
8314

08314 saraph {saw-rawf'}

from 08313; TWOT - 2292a,2292b; n m

AV - fiery serpent 3, fiery 2, seraphim 2; 7

1) serpent, fiery serpent
1a) poisonous serpent (fiery from burning effect of poison)
2) seraph, seraphim
2a) majestic beings with 6 wings, human hands or voices in attendance
upon God


This is a serpent like creature called a Saraph, same as the Saraphim which are heavenly beings that serve God. This is why Rev calls them beasts.

 

[Sammy-San]

Angel simply means a messenger but heavenly angels are heavenly beings with different jobs and titles. IMO Cherubim are high level angels but Seraphim are a different type of being.

Isa_6:2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had six wings; with twain he covered his face, and with twain he covered his feet, and with twain he did fly.

Rev_4:8 And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come.

Rev calls these 6 winged being as "beasts" so I believe they are different than Cherubim or angels.

are the living beasts cherubim?