Lovin'n the Worship Music Yet Hating the House of Joel Osteen/WOF It was Birthed In?

[Tallen]

tyfyt

 

[Simon Peter]

As both TasmanOfGod and I are fellow Australians, I should come to his defence by pointing out that he is from Tasmania - things don't seem to move all that fast down there.

While where discussing time-warps, I've noticed that you are from the USA but you are displaying a British flag - RULE BRITANNIA!! Actually I thought that the poms lost that little debarcle over the tea tax a few years back?

I'm British but my location is currently America. Does that mean I'm flying the union flag in virtual America

Those revolutionists didn't know how good they had it, their government is now taxing them and restricting them far more than the British ever did. But despite heading in the wrong direction, at least the US hasn't yet turned into a total nanny state like the UK has.

It looks like one of my step-brothers is moving to Tasmania this year.

peace,
Simon

 

[TasManOfGod]

It looks like one of my step-brothers is moving to Tasmania this year.

Now there is one intelligent brit

 

[Biblicist]

Now there is one intelligent brit

Things are looking up Tassy old boy, looks like the population of Tasmania is about to double!

 

[Gxg (G²)]

Worship is truly complex...

 

[ToBeBlessed]

You don't think that their theology effects their music and worship? That's odd.

I wouldn't consider using music in my worship from anyone that was "aberrational" or out right heretical. Christian or not. No more than I would use music of Hindus or any other that was singing something to their Lord.

People tend to be syncretic, once we allow something other than what YHWH has ordained for our worship, we have corrupted the worship. Look at the Israelites at Mount Horeb, they brought in a false worship to honor YHWH, and it almost cost all of them their lives. It's important to keep our worship as pure as we can letting scripture itself regulate it. The idea is that scripture alone should determine our practice of worship. Sola Scriptura.

I believe that we are always communicating even when we are not communicating. What we choose to do communicates as much as what we choose not to do.

I would NOT listen to this album, because it is obvious that he condones the NAR agenda.

The title of his album "a new level, a new breed" is very telling in that NAR is extremely associated with this 'new breed' 'new generation/level' of spiritual warriors for God.

Dominion, Kingdom Now, Manifest Sons of God, Latter Rain, NAR theology is NEVER something I would associate myself with.

That's just where I stand. Hillsong is very openly following a NAR agenda.

 

[sunlover1]

You don't think that their theology effects their music and worship? That's odd.

Since we can't know the hearts of whoever wrote a particular
hymn/worship song, we really have no need to be concerned
about the author. Just as we're told to eat what's set before
us without being concerned about where the meat came from,
same thing with the music.
You have no idea if your organist or priest/pastor is actually
secretly pagan.
Same thing.
Worship God, leave the rest to Him.

I wouldn't consider using music in my worship from anyone that was "aberrational" or out right heretical. Christian or not. No more than I would use music of Hindus or any other that was singing something to their Lord.

I sing some songs that were written a long time ago and I have
absolutely no idea of their origins.

People tend to be syncretic, once we allow something other than what YHWH has ordained for our worship, we have corrupted the worship. Look at the Israelites at Mount Horeb, they brought in a false worship to honor YHWH, and it almost cost all of them their lives. It's important to keep our worship as pure as we can letting scripture itself regulate it. The idea is that scripture alone should determine our practice of worship. Sola Scriptura.

But where Scripture is silent, we can't just add our own traditions to it,
and call it imperative.
That's why God created us to hear His VOICE, not just read His Word.
I too adhere to SS, but I also have to Hear my Father speak to me
directly if it's not "written" already.


imo

 

[JGiddings]

I'm not a fan of Joel. To me is more of a self help kinda preacher. He is definately running a seeker-friendly church. I don't see him as Word/Faith at all.
I DO BELIEVE that God does use him. I wonder how many people started their journey of faith at that church, and have left to mature at other smaller churches. I bet a lot!


Now concerning music: I don't love the contemporary stuff. I respect it and it has it's place. I like old hymnals and old school Gospel. Ever been to a Church of God in Christ??? Man that's some awesome music and praise!!!!

My FAVORITE:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2_BxswCQRtU

 

[AGTG]

It seems to me that when we worship, we are in the Spirit, so there is a unity there. Here is something Joseph Prince pointed out. That in alot of churches the music and worship is anointed and everyone is blessed. But then when the pastor starts to teach, there is alot of law and legalism instead of life being ministered.

Joseph Prince has some misunderstandings of the concept of grace. The law is beautiful, as it reflects a holiness that is within God. The problem with the law is people. We can't fulfill it in and of ourselves. But Jesus made a way that we can be empowered by His resurrection life and enabling grace that allows us to be changed and transformed as we are sanctified.

"Justification" is by faith alone in Christ's work on the cross. This gets us into the Kingdom of God, it's a free gift. But it is most certainly God's will that we become "sanctified" and transformed into the likeness of Christ as we grow in knowledge of Jesus. "Glorification" will come when we are given our new resurrected bodies at the end of the age.

Our salvation has three components (justification, sanctification, and glorification) and none of them should be neglected, as it departs from God's plan and makes us vulnerable to deception and sin. I hope this blesses you...

 

[whatfor]

I had a dream last week that I felt like sharing now.
In the dream our church was twice the size ( not sure about that bit) and we were in the worship before the message. What struck me as I woke was the song the worship team were singing was " Let me entertain you by Robbie Williams"
Not sure what to make of it but felt it was about the church.

 

[hopeinGod]

What I have noticed over the past decade are what I call "mosh pit" worship services, where everyone stands at the front of the multipiece band to sway and leap as if they are at a secular concert. The worst part, of course, is that all of that music is extremely loud, which can cause the unwary and ignorant profound ear damage from exposure to noise.

Here they are today, standing at the front praising God for miracles He does, while at the same time inflicting themselves with tinnitus, hyperacusis and hearing loss. It's truly stupid.

Do you know what the number one service connected disability is for our military men and women? Tinnitus, which is the ringing of the ears, caused by being around loud artillery and guns. This music that is now being played in churches is done at high volumes and causing the exact thing to listeners.

Those who think they are staying built up in the Lord as they wear their ipods 24/7 listening to Christian music are doing the same thing, bringing to themselves some of the worst problems they will face in their lifetimes.

Read the many, many threads in the Tinnitus Support Message Board Support Forum from young people who have become victims from their overuse of music at high volumes. Some confess they have become nearly suicidal. Also, watch the trailer to a film on the topic of noise damage. It's called "The Devil's Symphony" The Devil's Symphony tinnitus - YouTube The bass player in that film who tells of his present trials is me.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

I had a dream last week that I felt like sharing now.
In the dream our church was twice the size ( not sure about that bit) and we were in the worship before the message. What struck me as I woke was the song the worship team were singing was " Let me entertain you by Robbie Williams"
Not sure what to make of it but felt it was about the church.

Back in the '70s I led a Bible study Group. The folks in the Group were all Christians/Born Again to the best of my understanding.

And TWO of them were FIRST reached for the Lord -

By Jesus Christ Superstar.

Over the years I've learned to be a LOT less Judgmental. If the Holy Spirit can use a "Rock Opera" written to "Make the myth Live" by the composers, there's probably not much He CAN'T use.

What "Broke" me was the expression on a new Christian's face - there it was - the WHOLE Gospel - on his face. I couldn't get by that.

 

[whatfor]

Back in the '70s I led a Bible study Group. The folks in the Group were all Christians/Born Again to the best of my understanding.

And TWO of them were FIRST reached for the Lord -

By Jesus Christ Superstar.

Over the years I've learned to be a LOT less Judgmental. If the Holy Spirit can use a "Rock Opera" written to "Make the myth Live" by the composers, there's probably not much He CAN'T use.

What "Broke" me was the expression on a new Christian's face - there it was - the WHOLE Gospel - on his face. I couldn't get by that.

I have thought about it since and am not sure if it was about the church looking at the entertainment, or was it God saying He wanted to entertain us in some way.
All I know is the title really stood out for some reason.

 

[sunlover1]

I have thought about it since and am not sure if it was about the church looking at the entertainment, or was it God saying He wanted to entertain us in some way.
All I know is the title really stood out for some reason.

Perhaps the church is a bit uptight and our God is delighted
with all of our worship even if it seems offensive to some.
Just like when David worshiped God and his wife was disgusted
by his worship.

Just sayin'.
Peace!

 

[TasManOfGod]

Perhaps God appreciates the seed of the gospel being scattered amongst all types of ground.

 

[Truthfrees]

To the Gxg about the OP.

Your observation proves that many people don't understand what or why they disagree with something.

Prejudice is a type of blindness.

"There arose a great commotion." - Acts 19:23

"The whole city was filled with confusion, and rushed into the theater." - Acts 19:29

"Some therefore cried one thing and some another, for the assembly was confused, and most of them did not know why they had come together." - Acts 19:32

 

[sunlover1]

To the Gxg about the OP.

Your observation proves that people don't understand what or why they disagree with something.

Prejudice is a type of blindness.

"There arose a great commotion." - Acts 19:23

"The whole city was filled with confusion, and rushed into the theater." - Acts 19:29

"Some therefore cried one thing and some another, for the assembly was confused, and most of them did not know why they had come together." - Acts 19:32

Love the screenname, could you expound a bit more?
Maybe more passages?

 

[Seeking Him]

Joseph Prince has some misunderstandings of the concept of grace. The law is beautiful, as it reflects a holiness that is within God. The problem with the law is people. We can't fulfill it in and of ourselves. But Jesus made a way that we can be empowered by His resurrection life and enabling grace that allows us to be changed and transformed as we are sanctified.

"Justification" is by faith alone in Christ's work on the cross. This gets us into the Kingdom of God, it's a free gift. But it is most certainly God's will that we become "sanctified" and transformed into the likeness of Christ as we grow in knowledge of Jesus. "Glorification" will come when we are given our new resurrected bodies at the end of the age.

Our salvation has three components (justification, sanctification, and glorification) and none of them should be neglected, as it departs from God's plan and makes us vulnerable to deception and sin. I hope this blesses you...

Thank you for your thoughts.

I agree with your first paragraph. God does change us over time into his image by grace. A problem can arise if we start looking for sin all the time and become sin conscious. The law can then become "the power of sin." For sanctification mostly, I believe we are sanctified by receiving the gift of righteousness. We put on the new man who is already "created in righteousness and holiness." I love that! Already created in righteousness.

Grace centered teachings minister life and grace by empowering us to live in the "new man". As opposed to sin centered teachings which mostly just show us sin, but have no power to free us.

 

[Truthfrees]

To the Gxg about the OP.

Your observation proves that many people don't understand what or why they disagree with something.

Prejudice is a type of blindness.

"There arose a great commotion." - Acts 19:23

"The whole city was filled with confusion, and rushed into the theater." - Acts 19:29

"Some therefore cried one thing and some another, for the assembly was confused, and most of them did not know why they had come together." - Acts 19:32

Love the screenname, could you expound a bit more?
Maybe more passages?

The 19th chapter of Acts is a true story about a whole city of people who opposed something blindly (without being fully informed).

They jumped on the bandwagon, shouting and rioting, not knowing WHAT or WHY they were opposing something.

Some shouted this, some shouted that, and everyone was confused, but they were rioting anyway.

This type of carnal prejudice, misinformation, pre-judging, blindness, confusion, etc, is common with people who make their own decisions WITHOUT consulting the LORD.

The scripture lesson of Acts chapter 19 is:

1. Find out from the LORD what HIS mind and heart is on issues. Lay aside prejudices, pre-judgments, etc.

2. The majority isn't necessarily right, no matter how loud they shout and riot against something.

3. Loud excessive opposition often comes from a root of ignorance, confusion, carnality, etc.

Paul told Timothy to teach the truth WITHOUT quarreling and fighting.

"Avoid foolish and ignorant disputes, knowing that they generate strife. 24 And a servant of the Lord must not quarrel but be gentle to all, able to teach, patient, 25 in humility correcting those who are in opposition, if God perhaps will grant them repentance, so that they may know the truth, 26 and that they may come to their senses and escape the snare of the devil, having been taken captive by him to do his will." - 2 Timothy 2:23-2

 

[Gunny]

Over the years I've learned to be a LOT less Judgmental.

Amen, and Amen.