• Welcome to Christian Forums
  1. Welcome to Christian Forums, a forum to discuss Christianity in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

  2. The forums in the Christian Congregations category are now open only to Christian members. Please review our current Faith Groups list for information on which faith groups are considered to be Christian faiths. Christian members please remember to read the Statement of Purpose threads for each forum within Christian Congregations before posting in the forum.

Featured Love is fulfillment of the law?

Discussion in 'General Theology' started by Neostarwcc, Oct 2, 2017.

  1. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Let me clarify what I was saying. The pain here is caused by disobedience not Love. Now it is Love in that Jesus Loves even those that don't Love Him but the discussion is more directly related to how Love itself sometimes hurts not how disobedience results in death. It's a minor difference but one that I think is important. Suffering is because of sin/disobedience, but sometimes we can be obedient and still hurt because of the sins of others...aka Jesus suffering.
     
  2. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

    +15,035
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I think I see the distinction. Of course, the purging in John 15 is at the Lord's discretion and not simply in response to someone's sin.
     
  3. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Amen but He also tells us who those people are....
     
  4. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    no clue and not willing to ask given how hostile your posts appear.
    What you seem to be talking about here is the compassion of Love. Which is true, Love is compassionate but that is a totally different discussion than the one we are currently trying to have. The current discussion is whether or not Love sometimes hurts while never doing harm. You were shown 3 different biblical examples of that being the case.

    Does this mean you accept what I said and are now interested in changing the topic? It's hard to keep up with discussions where people change the topic without warning. My husband does that sometimes and it can create some humor as well as terrible communication.
     
  5. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

    +221
    Non-Denom
    Private
    have you ever heard of demons distorting someone's words and what (kind of) mood someone's behavior indicates in someone else's mind?!

    i don't think the purpose of the true God and His Saints is to glamorize things such as distress and pain, including as things accompanying life/love under sin

    Blessings
     
  6. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    sure but it doesn't apply here and I even tested to make sure it didn't apply.
    No one suggested that God or His Saints were glamorizing anything except for you right here right now. Why would you even think such a thing? Who planted that thought in your mind?
     
  7. ~Cassia~

    ~Cassia~ Devoted to Truth Supporter

    +10,743
    Canada
    Christian
    Private
    Sounds like flies in the ointment to me ::tutu:
     
  8. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I think I will keep the tests since they are the ones scripture tells us to use...thank you anyway for your advice but I do trust God much more than any human including but not limited to you.



    it seems as if you are talking about God propagating masochism and turning people into masochists - are you aware of the fact that evil spirits are the primary cause of things such as distress and pain (all spirits that Jesus and His true disciples cast out from demon-possessed people)?!

    Blessings[/QUOTE]what in heavens name are you talking about? Seriously...I never even suggested or hinted that God was a masochist or turning people...oh I don't even know how to continue with this discussion without being accused falsely and attacked for things that never happened. I pray that you will one day find the peace that all men seek and the unfailing Love that God offers to all people.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 15, 2017
  9. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

    +221
    Non-Denom
    Private
    here i have to agree with the fact that trusting God more than anyone else is good/right as a basis of faith, however, it is very important that the faith be only in the One Who is really the true Lord God i.e. without the worshiper having any other god, lord(christ) or spirit

    given the hitherto prevailing world situation of so many evils with so many people, how (is it/will it be right) to say "distress and pain are good for us/our friends"?!

    Blessings
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2017
  10. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    you will probably report me for saying this but suggesting I worship another god or that I am listening to demons is inflammatory not to mention lies and it needs to stop if you ever want to talk to me again.
    As I pointed out already...there are at least three separate examples in scripture. If you don't agree with scripture that is up to you but personally I believe scripture and I serve the God of the Bible. Disagree all you want but the answer was given out of scripture and you have no right to attack me and falsely accuse me because you don't like what scripture says.
     
  11. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    I have no idea what you are talking about "propagated sadism or masochism" you are the only one talking about such things...I do know that if you want to present scripture that shows my examples wrong you have had more than enough opportunity to do so and instead of going to scripture you falsely accuse me. The record stands, you refuse scripture on the matter which is your choice, but I choose God through scripture...I guess we are done.
     
  12. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    The issue was brought up about persecution...like the other issue presented about purging the vine where these are examples of Love hurting it is not what we are talking about when we say that Love sometimes hurts. I thought that should be stated for anyone who is reading but not commenting. when we talk about Love hurting we are primarily talking about God's perfect Love correcting us and the discomfort of that correction aka hurting but not harming. It's straight out of scripture...Proverbs 3:12 and others. In this case the Love is on both sides, both God's pure Love and the son who Loves His father.

    In the other cases presented where Love is involved it is not always on both sides of the issue thus is not what we are talking about when we talk about Love sometimes hurting but never doing harm. Now that that clarification has been given I hope that things can return to civil discussion that is both educational and enlightening as well as Biblical. As has repeatedly been clarified and stated.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2017
  13. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

    +221
    Non-Denom
    Private
    razzle, first is the Living Word coming directly from the Kingdom of the true God, while Scripture is a written record of the Word that had been respectively spoken to the relevant people in the past - let's be at least rational, not just reading parrots

    as far as i can remember scripture you referred to in your posts to me was 1 Corinthians 13 and 2 Timothy 3:12, and what you intimated was that love is closely, integrally or inseparably related to sufferings, and what i told you was that i don't believe the true God would (deliberately) give the satanic kingdom any reason/opportunity to cause evil/harm/suffering to people/souls, otherwise He would be unrighteous and guilty of sin/death... - just think how many millions of people may suffer if He allows satan to cause humans evil/harm/suffering...

    as i said before, so i say again now, things such as distress, pain and harm/damage may (against the Will of the true God) accompany a person's life (while still living) in this world under "sin" and "death", but this doesn't mean that they are an integral or constant part of love or that they make love perfect (more than it is in essence)

    Blessings
     
  14. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    the authority of who God is is the very word He gave us to tell us who He is...period end of statement. If you think that you are some authority for who God is it explains your behavior on this thread and others.
    this is the problem...you have absolutely no idea whatsoever what I said in my posts. In fact, you reinvented what I said into something I didn't say, something offensive to what I did say then try to belittle me into arguing the new point you made that isn't even close to what I said or believe. Shame on you especially after accusing me of listening to demons...In fact, what I said and repeatedly pointed out to you is that correction is a hurt that Love causes but does no harm...now think about this for just a brief second, get rid of the spirits that are lying to you about what I said and think it through...if as I said and pointed out in scripture Love can hurt but never does harm how would that equal God causing "harm" as you try to assert here as a result of Love? Hum???????? See, the one listening to other voices was not me but you. Report me for saying that if you want the evidence is clear. I said boldly and clearly and clarified many times over that Love can hurt as we see in the father who corrects the child he loves (aka scripture about God and HIs children) but never does Harm...you know, like the never does the things you keep trying to assert that I said but I spoke out against many times over. That means you have not heard anything I said....so who is listening to demonic voices?
    See previous post. You are talking about something that no one else is talking about and I can't even figure out what you want to say about it as per what I said cause honestly and I do not mean to be offensive here, you sound like you don't even know what you are saying much less what I said. I would tell you what others have said about your posts and what they sound like but that would certainly get me reported. You are not responding to me and what I said and I have no idea what you even think you are arguing but that seems all to common with you. It would really help communication if you would only respond to what is said and not change topics without warning.

    Now, if you want to respond to what I did say and drop all this other non sense we can talk. Otherwise I will ignore your posts and just more non sense
     
  15. toLiJC

    toLiJC Senior Member

    +221
    Non-Denom
    Private
    does it seem only to me or also to others that you act like a saboteur walking along a thin line of the lie bordering directly/tightly on the truth?!

    to tell the truth, i have no tradition to waste the time of anybody (including me) with nonsense - either we are helpful and not detrimental to each other in the true God, or let the cobbler stick to his last

    i tell you again, the purpose of such an intervention as that of giving a testimony about God and faith in Him is to unload people from burdens, not to burden them

    Isaiah 58:6 (AKJV) "Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that you break every yoke?",

    Matthew 23:4 (AKJV) "they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.",

    Romans 15:1-4 (AKJV) "We then that are strong ought to bear the infirmities of the weak, and not to please ourselves. Let every one of us please his neighbor for his good to edification. For even Christ pleased not himself; but, as it is written, The reproaches of them that reproached you fell on me. For whatever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope."

    because if we say every person has necessarily to suffer all the time, then we don't unburden them, but on the contrary we burden them - and in fact, the true God Himself never causes evil/harm/suffering to any person/soul

    Blessings
     
  16. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Please quote the person you are responding to and not just quote a random post and pretend to respond to it it is very confusing to communication when you quote one person then talk to another as you are doing here.
     
  17. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    that is exactly the problem...you quote me then address someone else with different ideas and words than I came here with which is what makes your posts so difficult because you quote me but talk to someone else and it's all very confusing which is why I asked you to respond only to my posts when quoting me and when talking to someone else please quote them and leave me out of your debate over something I have no idea what you are talking about because I can't find the context of who you are talking to. It's simple communication rules nothing more or less I should think you would be capable of following that simple rule.
     
  18. razzelflabben

    razzelflabben Contributor

    +2,382
    Non-Denom
    Married
    Since no one can show a reason not to believe scripture when it says that Love sometimes hurts but never does harm as in the case of correction I think that if anyone is still lingering after the poor behavior of some we should talk about the other side of the suffering issue as per scripture.

    The instance of correction which was offered as an example involved both parties Loving one another with Biblical Love. God Loving His children and His children Loving Him thus His children.

    There is another type of suffering talked about in scripture and farouk was kind enough to post one example. That of justice. Compassion and justice are both a part of Love and sometimes those things are uncomfortable to those that are not consistent with what God asks of us. We can look at this as a one sided Love. IOW's in the example farouk gave Love is still Love but it is not His children who Love Him back that are the one's being hurt. Another example of this one sided Love is that of Christ's suffering or the persecuted Church. The suffering is endured because of Love (I Corinthians 13) but it is not because of Love that the suffering is happening.

    So when it comes to Biblical Love, it can hurt but we have to understand what the hurt is caused by before we can actually understand how Love hurts but does no harm.

    For anyone who wants to talk more about Love which I would surely Love I am going to ignore the poster who is being unloving so we can talk freely about the truth in scripture about Love. Hope someone is willing to continue our discussion.
     
Loading...