Losing my faith

[aiki]

I'm in basically the exact position as Adam and have been for about 4 months now. I am scientifically-minded and value logic and reason. Similarily I am struggling with the idea of what "faith" is and why Christians hold faith as such a virtue. Faith as virtue seems like one of the basic tenets that you need to value in order to be a Christian. I find that in order to have faith, you have to have faith.

How do you expect to walk with an infinite God as a finite creature without faith? God is operating on a level massively beyond anything we can comprehend. While God does give us some explanation of what He is doing, much of what He does is just too far beyond our grasp for explanations to be of use. When this is so, we must simply trust God, exercise faith in what we do know of Him and move forward with Him even when the way seems murky and confusing.

I also didn't like what aiki wrote because it implies that, in order to be a Christian, you can't have free thought. The word "doubt" has a negative connotation when in reality, "searching", "seeking" or simply "freely thinking" are less-loaded terms for the same thing. I find that, in order to be a Christian, you can't actually freely think because you're ultimately constrained by the fact that you must pre-suppose the Bible's truthfulness and therefore cannot actively analyze the Bible from a different viewpoint.

Well, now, hang on. In fact, I believe quite the opposite of what you say I'm suggesting about free thinking. Searching for answers, working to have one's doubts answered, is a good thing - even a necessary thing. Doubts propel us to toward the truth, and insofar as they do, they are very valuable. Some people, though, get hung up on the doubts themselves - so much so that the doubts are all they end up seeing. It is against such thinking that I was offering caution.

No thoughtful Christian I know just blindly "presupposes" the truthfulness of the Bible. There are many very good reasons upon which to rest one's belief that the Bible is the Word of God. One is not required to do so blindly.

So if I go off "seeking", I'm not "supposed" to. Its viewed as a "bad" thing in Christian circles. And if I value free-thought and want to understand the Bible more fully, isn't it necessary to look at it from the perspective that it was a culturally-motivated, mythologized set of ancient writings no different than other mythologized books?

Doesn't this view of the Bible have its own presuppositions? It seems very clear to me that it does. Why default to this a priori view of the Bible?

Also, olympic athletes don't WANT to fail and are HIGHLY motivated to succeed in their sport. But with me (and perhaps Adam) I am finding it harder and harder to be MOTIVATED to think the happy, supportive thoughts that would "strengthen" my faith. Its been exhausting, as Adam said.

Well, this is a relational issue, not merely an epistemic one. God intends that we should know Him and relate with Him, and when we do, the joy of the experience we have in doing so motivates all else in our life as a Christian. Your faith ought to rest, not in a concept or theory of the divine, but in the Person of Christ and God. It seems that you have yet to "taste and see that the Lord is good." Until you do, until your exprience of God transcends your intellectual interest (or lack thereof), you will continue to exhaust yourself maintaining your faith by purely mental effort.

Also, aiki finishes off the paragraph saying that we shouldn't ignore doubts...but the rest of her post seems to imply that we should ignore doubts because they lead you down a bad road.

As I have explained, doubts, insofar as they propel us into truth, are very important. Doubts that expand to unreasonable proportions so that they crowd out any reasonable answer are not. It was this sort of doubting against which I was speaking to Adam.

Oh, by the way, Aiki is a gender-neutral name. I'm actually a "he," not a "her." My real name is Jon.

Selah. (Which is not a name but a Hebrew term meaning "pause and consider.")

 

[Spaceman 3]

Hi mate - I feel exactly the same way.

If I was to stick a label on myself (which I prefer not to do) I would now consider myself an Agnostic Theist. I'm still in touch with people from my Church, because some of them are genuine friends & my Mrs still goes there. The pastor doesn't judge me, but offers friendship & support & I meet up with him for lunch every couple of weeks.

In fact I discussed my problem with somebody from the congregation once & they were horrified with my doubt, telling me that I was a hypocrite & that I'd go to hell & that they felt sorry for me LOL. My Mrs was so angry that she emailed the pastor who demanded to talk with them in his office for rebuke. I prefer not to judge. Despite what one may think & feel, life's such a complex web of complexity & human beings are even more complex on top of all that - LOL. Life's just not black & white. I don't consider myself in a position to judge others, but plenty do, & they use the scriptures as an excuse to do so.

I still go along to a Sunday service now & again. I think it's important, just to hear what's preached - and I think it's important to keep an open mind, which includes hearing all aspects of the argument.

If you were to rely on scripture, let's just look at the doubt of the people that alledgedly spent their time with God in the flesh... even in their position, having heard & seen all the things they had, & spent all their time with what essentially was God, they still had their doubts, right up until the end. Says it all really...

Good luck dude...

 

[wsgqapu_ap]

I just came across an old unread e-mail that there'd been a few posts here. I haven't been here for ages, but just wanted to thank everyone for the responses and the discussion.

I see there were some posts a few years after my original post, and just wanted to give my best wishes go out to everyone who connected with my story in some way. I'll be deleting my account after this post.

Long story short: I'm no longer a Christian now (agnostic comes the closest to where I'm at), and haven't been for about two years. I'm happy where I'm at and my journal here, and I am still actively pondering the big questions about life.

While I've moved on from Christianity, there's still much I appreciate from my experiences as a Christian and I have many great Christian friends.

Whoever is reading this, I wish you all the best wherever you find yourself in life

 

[doomsayer2]

I've always wondered what is was about "faith" that some people found so easy and others so difficult to obtain. I think maybe the one who is losing it is from simply over thinking,and not just being a thinker. Some of the greatest theologians are some of the greatest thinkers around. They just have that "it" or the Faith in what they can't discern completely with the limited human mind.
From personal experience,and from what i "see" everyday in one form or another,it would be impossible for me to be anything less than a theist of some form of higher power or force. But i suppose one can ignore it as they may a bag of money left on there front porch. As long as they don't open it they will not technically be rich,even if the money is on there property or in one's possession. I just don't see why God would literally give someone more faith than another,and not equally grant each at least some ability to believe enough in the possibility of the impossible.
Basically i have to conclude that an agnostic is simply exercising the free-will to remain uncertain at best,which is really the same as not believing.
Just how i see it.
Also read Job-19:23-25...(if this man could still believe then who am i to doubt!?)