Lords supper

[Dick Barton]

I provided what you asked; did you read it?

I stand by my post; we have been reasonable, it is you that came into a discussion thread with a closed mind, denigrating the beliefs of others with no desire to try and understand.

As Christians, we should seek to find the similarities between us and use this as a basis to understand our differences. Most who come here trying to used their "personal understanding" as a hammer are trolls. Prove me wrong.

BTW, life is too short to get this stuff wrong.

I provided what you asked; did you read it?. Why would I read it? I know everything according to you so there is no need for me to consult with an inferior intellect.

I stand by my post; we have been reasonable, it is you that came into a discussion thread with a closed mind, denigrating the beliefs of others with no desire to try and understand.

Whose WE? Apart from more of the same "I am superior to you so listen up" attitude.

Most who come here trying to used their "personal understanding" as a hammer are trolls. Prove me wrong. I think this comment deserves reporting as it is a blatant and arrogant attack on me personally.

 

[Dick Barton]

Obviously, Jesus was not asking them to eat his literal body, his arm or heart, etc.

He was referring to a mystical event, a supernatural event, in which he is truly and intimately made present with the disciples. The Lord's Supper is not exclusively a mental activity, nor is it but a gesture or a symbol.

The objection is sometimes raised that Jesus also said it was to be done in remembrance of him, but there is no sense in thinking that the ceremony cannot be a remembrance in addition to whatever else it is.

I personally don't find any of this comment backed up by scripture.

 

[Albion]

I personally don't find any of this comment backed up by scripture.

That's not the fault of the scriptures, though. People make assumptions about the wording. For example, thinking that Christ's words have to be taken a certain way and it never occurs to them that it may not be the only possible meaning.

 

[Dick Barton]

That's not the fault of the scriptures, though. People make assumptions about the wording. For example, thinking that Christ's words have to be taken a certain way and it never occurs to them that it may not be the only possible meaning.

Precisely. That is why I have made a study of the meaning behind the words other than what seems the obvious meaning. I spent two years doing that very thing, discovering all sorts of meanings along the way. Especially when I delved into the original Greek, which is the most accurate meaning.

The end result is what I have posted so I am very confident in what I have said. Especially as it has been confirmed by men who know much more than I do. And by denominational leaders who I spoke to personally and admitted I was right, but they were not prepared to change denominational preferences as it would cause too many ructions.

So there you have it. Rigorous study backed up by learned men of God and denominational leaders. It does not bother me that they choose non scriptural denominational doctrine over scripture as I have found out the truth which by the way sets you free.

It has set me free from all the ritual and rigmarole of religious communion and allows me to enjoy communal meals with others without feeling guilty that I have not had a sip of wine and a piece of bread.

I meet with others every week for a communal meal and we always feel that we have really connected with each other and with the Lord. We don't sit and listen to some preacher who has very little to say when all is said and done. We tend to deal with the nitty gritty like a few weeks ago when one of us was fearing the death of his daughter because of the need of a heart transplant.

The heart transplant went well but an infection happened and she died as a result. Only 23 years of age. In a situation like that singing hymns isn't much use neither is a sermon. What is needed is comfort and support through the heartbreak.

What I have discovered because I was prepared to look outside the square has been more beneficial to me and others than the rigmarole of a sip of wine and a piece of bread.

 

[Dick Barton]

That's not the fault of the scriptures, though. People make assumptions about the wording. For example, thinking that Christ's words have to be taken a certain way and it never occurs to them that it may not be the only possible meaning.

Just to put people in the picture that seem to enjoy attacking me and what I have said. Being autistic, one thing that we place great emphasis on is facts. Because we do not have the ability to be governed by our feelings as in I think this or I think that or it is my opinion, we do not have much else left other than facts.

Autistic people have a tendency to leave well alone unless they have unearthed every possible scenario and fully analyzed them. As I said I have spent two years looking into this before I wrote one single word on the subject.

Their study involves cross referencing everything to ensure that their opinion does not interfere with their findings, so they are not convinced about anything until there is a body of work that confirms what has been revealed by enough people who have done an excessive amount of study on the subject.

I guess I have learnt this at University where I obtained three degree's both undergraduate and post graduate and a theological degree at bible college. For someone who was a dunce at school, I am rather pleased as a mature student I was able to study and achieve the end result I did.

And for those of you that consider I am boasting, that is your problem not mine. So if you want to accuse me of this that and the other, it is all water of a ducks back to me as I let the criticism go through to the keeper as my confidence is in the Lord, not people's opinion of me.

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

I rest my case.

 

[Dick Barton]

I rest my case.

What case? Is that the one where your denomination has appointed a transgender bishop????

 

[MarkRohfrietsch]

What case? Is that the one where your denomination has appointed a transgender bishop????

You truly are ignorant of the diversity of Christianity. I posted either here or on the other thread that I am a member of Lutheran Church Canada (Home - Lutheran Church–Canada). There are two distinct groups within Lutheranism. Liberal and Conservative-confessional.

We do not even ordain Women. We are not "woke", we are not "social Marxists" who disregard the clear reading of Scripture regarding sexuality, the structure of the family, and the Church. Us, and other traditional Lutheran Church Synods are members of the International Lutheran Council (Home - International Lutheran Council). While not all of the Churches in this world wide organization are in full fellowship, many are. Here in North America, we are in fellowship with the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. We are also in fellowship with the following Synods:

• Australia: Lutheran Church of Australia
• Brazil: Igreja Evangélica Luterana do Brasil (Evangelical Lutheran Church of Brazil)
• England: The Evangelical Lutheran Church of England
• Germany: Selbständige Evangelisch–Lutherische Kirche (Independent Evangelical–Lutheran Church)
• Finland: The Evangelical Lutheran Mission Diocese of Finland
• Hong Kong: The Lutheran Church–Hong Kong Synod
• Nicaragua: Iglesia Luterana Sinodo de Nicaragua
• USA: The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Unfortunately, the heterodox behavior of congregations and synods that retain the name "Lutheran" that we are not associated with get top billing in the news because of their woke, social Marxist, social justice theology and practice.

If you had taken time to look outside of your own comfort zone, you will notice, even here at Christian Forums, that in the Lutheran Forum, there or two sub-forums, one for the Liberals (ELCA, ELCIC, and another for the conservatives (LCMS, LCC, WELS)

Most paint us with the same brush, but both in theology and practice, we are two completely different Churches, with completely different theologies.

My ancestors were refugees, just like most of the Confessional Churches, we left our homelands in one of the various states in western Europe (in our case, Alsace) to escape persecution by the Calvinist who confiscated our Churches and farms, imprisoned and killed our clergy, and profane the Sacraments by denying their efficacy.

You have a lot of catching up to do if you ever hope to understand Christianity. If you equate your journey through life and faith with a road trip, if you don't know where you started, there is no way you can ever hope to find your destination... Even a GPS needs to figure out your present location before it can direct you to your destination.

You owe it to yourself ot open up your mind, otherwise you end up looking foolish like the remark about the gender-bending Bishop.

BTW, this is our National Bishop, and my former Pastor; The Rev. Timothy Teuscher, President of Lutheran Church Canada:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1406067236417124

 

[Dick Barton]

You truly are ignorant of the diversity of Christianity. I posted either here or on the other thread that I am a member of Lutheran Church Canada (Home - Lutheran Church–Canada). There are two distinct groups within Lutheranism. Liberal and Conservative-confessional.

We do not even ordain Women. We are not "woke", we are not "social Marxists" who disregard the clear reading of Scripture regarding sexuality, the structure of the family, and the Church. Us, and other traditional Lutheran Church Synods are members of the International Lutheran Council (Home - International Lutheran Council). While not all of the Churches in this world wide organization are in full fellowship, many are. Here in North America, we are in fellowship with the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod. We are also in fellowship with the following Synods:

• Australia: Lutheran Church of Australia
• Brazil: Igreja Evangélica Luterana do Brasil (Evangelical Lutheran Church of Brazil)
• England: The Evangelical Lutheran Church of England
• Germany: Selbständige Evangelisch–Lutherische Kirche (Independent Evangelical–Lutheran Church)
• Finland: The Evangelical Lutheran Mission Diocese of Finland
• Hong Kong: The Lutheran Church–Hong Kong Synod
• Nicaragua: Iglesia Luterana Sinodo de Nicaragua
• USA: The Lutheran Church—Missouri Synod

Unfortunately, the heterodox behavior of congregations and synods that retain the name "Lutheran" that we are not associated with get top billing in the news because of their woke, social Marxist, social justice theology and practice.

If you had taken time to look outside of your own comfort zone, you will notice, even here at Christian Forums, that in the Lutheran Forum, there or two sub-forums, one for the Liberals (ELCA, ELCIC, and another for the conservatives (LCMS, LCC, WELS)

Most paint us with the same brush, but both in theology and practice, we are two completely different Churches, with completely different theologies.

My ancestors were refugees, just like most of the Confessional Churches, we left our homelands in one of the various states in western Europe (in our case, Alsace) to escape persecution by the Calvinist who confiscated our Churches and farms, imprisoned and killed our clergy, and profane the Sacraments by denying their efficacy.

You have a lot of catching up to do if you ever hope to understand Christianity. If you equate your journey through life and faith with a road trip, if you don't know where you started, there is no way you can ever hope to find your destination... Even a GPS needs to figure out your present location before it can direct you to your destination.

You owe it to yourself ot open up your mind, otherwise you end up looking foolish like the remark about the gender-bending Bishop.

BTW, this is our National Bishop, and my former Pastor; The Rev. Timothy Teuscher, President of Lutheran Church Canada:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1406067236417124

 

[Dick Barton]

So you are all over the place and the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. And I did not realize that the Lutheran church was the one that God anointed to control all the other lesser churches. However, to most people that are not Lutheran the Lutheran church is the Lutheran church. And when we talk about it we don't go through the church annals to find out which one we are talking about.

Whatever one you are talking about, it doesn't alter the fact that the Lutheran church has appointed a transgender bishop. Not a good look regardless of which branch has decided that God is not relevant.

 

[Albion]

However, to most people that are not Lutheran the Lutheran church is the Lutheran church.

I don't know if it's true that "most people" really are that misinformed.

Whatever one you are talking about, it doesn't alter the fact that the Lutheran church has appointed a transgender bishop.

If facts matter, it's worth noting this fact: There is no "the Lutheran church," but there are a number of different Lutheran bodies and they do not agree with each other on all matters--just as is the case also with almost every other denomination.

 

[Dick Barton]

I don't know if it's true that "most people" really are that misinformed.


If facts matter, it's worth noting this fact: There is no "the Lutheran church," but there are a number of different Lutheran bodies and they do not agree with each other on all matters--just as is the case also with almost every other denomination.

I am so glad that you admit you don't know.

And as I said most people know the Lutheran church as the Lutheran church. They are not versed in this synod, that synod, the other synod. But it seems some Lutherans get all upset if one is not versed in all 57 synods, or is that 157?

I wonder if a synod is a place that Lutherans are free to syn?

 

[Albion]

And as I said most people know the Lutheran church as the Lutheran church.

That's a guess, but if it is accurate, those people are mistaken. There's no question about that.

And if it is true, then the criticism I was reading here is off-base also. That's worth knowing.

 

[Dick Barton]

That's a guess, but if it is accurate, they are mistaken. There's no question about that fact.

And if it's true, then the criticism I was reading here is wrong also. That's worth knowing before the thread goes further off-course.

No, not a guess. A fact. In all my 68 years as a Christian living on three continents, I have never ever heard anyone refer to this da da synod or that da da synod. All I have ever heard is " The Lutheran Church."

The only way you are going to overcome that problem is to make it clear when you are speaking or writing, you state clearly that you are the Lutheran Church, whatever synod. In my country it has never been mentioned so as far as we know, Lutheran Church, full stop.

 

[Albion]

No, not a guess. A fact. In all my 68 years as a Christian living on three continents, I have never ever heard anyone refer to this da da synod or that da da synod. All I have ever heard is " The Lutheran Church."

Of course it's a guess to say that most people do not know that there is no single Lutheran church body. But either way, the criticism of the mythical monolithic Lutheran church is wrong since there is no such animal. And now you've learned something new.

 

[Dick Barton]

Of course it's a guess to say that most people do not know that there is no single Lutheran church body. But either way, the criticism of the mythical monolithic Lutheran church is wrong since there is no such animal. And now you've learned something new.

If that is the case then it is the fault of the Lutheran church. Where I live there is a Lutheran Church down the road. Not once in all it publicity has it said it is the Lutheran Church, something or other synod. That being the case, how are people supposed to know?

 

[Albion]

If that is the case then it is the fault of the Lutheran church.

...and every almanac, Lutheran website, and the yellow pages of the local phonebook.

Not likely.

 

[Dick Barton]

...and every almanac, Lutheran website, and the yellow pages of the local phonebook.

Not likely.

I don't read almanacs, Lutheran websites or local phone books. But I do read the local paper and the Lutherans never refer to themselves as Lutheran Church, whatever synod.

 

[FreeinChrist]

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