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Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by chunkofcoal, Aug 3, 2019.

  1. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    I came across something about this and thought it was interesting to ponder - In three places the name "LORD God of Abraham, Isaac and Israel" is used instead of "LORD God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob".
    So what is the significance of using Israel instead of Jacob? Are they using Israel in reference to the collective people of Israel, or in reference to the remnant, or ??? Any thoughts or insights? :)

    Spoken by Elijah -

    1Ki 18:36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.

    Spoken by King David -

    1Ch 29:18 O LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, our fathers, keep this for ever in the imagination of the thoughts of the heart of thy people, and prepare their heart unto thee:

    Spoken by King Hezekiah -

    2Ch 30:6 So the posts went with the letters from the king and his princes throughout all Israel and Judah, and according to the commandment of the king, saying, Ye children of Israel, turn again unto the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel, and he will return to the remnant of you, that are escaped out of the hand of the kings of Assyria.
     
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  2. gospels

    gospels Active Member Supporter

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  3. Tone

    Tone Star Fish Radiant Supporter

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    It seems that it is pointing to the fulfillment of the promise concerning people and land...so yeah, the nation.
     
  4. BrotherJJ

    BrotherJJ New Member

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    A bit of history

    Matt 1:2 (A) Abraham begat Isaac; and Isaac begat Jacob

    Jacob's name is changed by the Angel of the Lord to Israel: Gen 32:28-30 & 35:10

    Jacob/Israel has 12 sons: Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph & Benjamin.

    The 12 sons are then referred to as the House of Jacob/the 12 Tribes/or Israel.

    Each of Jacobs Sons/Tribes (except Levi) is given a portion of land within Israel's God promised/given land. Levi or the Levites, are chosen to be Priests Of God. They get no land, animals, fruit trees etc.

    Each of the other tribe's are commanded to give a 1/10th of their wealth increases to support the Priesthood/Levites.

    Joseph received a double portion (Gen 48:21). Joseph's two sons, Manasseh & Ephraim (often called the "two half-tribes of Joseph") together form the House of Joseph. So, in Revelation when you read about Manasseh it's includes Ephraim/Josephs portion.

    The tribe of Dan was the 1st tribe of Israel to plunge into pagan IDOLATRY! Danites failed to drive out their Philistine and Canaanite neighbors. As a result, they migrated to another land, in the northernmost limits of Canaan. It's true other Tribes fell into idolatry, but, only the Tribe of Dan left the promised land.

    Tribe/territory examples today:
    What we refer to today as, Tel-Aviv is the tribe/territory of Jacobs son Ephraim

    What we refer to today as the West Bank was the tribe/territory of Jacobs son Judah. Question: What to we call people from Japan? Answer Japanese! What to we call people from China? Answer Chinese. What SHOULD we call people from Judah/west bank? Answer: JEWS! Yet, somehow this piece of land, God gave to Abraham/Jacob is somehow seen to belong to Palestinians. I digress.


    Additional text:
    The house of Jacob/Nation of Israel, stays united with Jerusalem as its capital, thru King Solomon's reign. After Solomon dies, his son Rehoboam attempts to succeed him. 10 of the 12 tribes/sons revolt (1 Kings 12). Only 2 tribes Judah & Benjamin remained loyal to Rehoboam.

    Although, still called Israel/the house of Israel/or the Northern Kingdom. Their capital becomes Samaria. Judah & Benjamin, the 2 tribes/sons that stayed loyal to Rehoboam. Are now referred to as Judah, the house of Judah or the Southern Kingdom.

    Find additional history on the 2 kingdoms throughout the books of Kings 1 & 2
     
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  5. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    Jacob refers to the fleshy seeds while Israel refers to the spiritual seeds.

    The typical Christian understanding would see Jacob as old covenant Judaism and Israel as new covenant Christianity.

    Messianic Judaism understands the difference as complimentary, not divisive.

    Jacob represents the Jewish people chosen by Adonai to reveal salvation to the world. Through his seed the Messiah of his people and the world would be realized.

    Israel represents the redeemed, both physical seeds and those grafted into through the Spirit. It speaks of the blessings given to the fathers, and the redemption to come.

    Abraham represents the Father, Isaac represents Yeshua, and Israel represents Zion. The redeemed of Adonai.

    But the point of this is Jacob represents the now, Israel represents the world to come.
     
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  6. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Israel The name “Israel” applies to four entities in the Bible...
    1. the patriarch Jacob,
    2. the kingdom ruled by David and Solomon,
    3. the northern kingdom after the division,
    4. the church that Christ established.


    Romans 9:6

    It is not as though God's word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel.

    You must be born of that Spirit, circumcised in the heart, not only this, but even before the cross in order to be Abraham’s seed you would have had to have been born of the Spirit. Galatians 3:16 says Abraham’s “seed, which is Christ”(See also Galatians 3:28, 29). Christ is that seed. “The Lord is that Spirit”(2 Cor 3:17). When you are in Christ, you are that seed and joint heirs with him.

    Therefore Gods Israel are all those who were (promise of the Messiah to come) and are in Christ and transcends all churches and physical nations .... it's all spiritual through Christ.

    John 8:56

    56 Your father Abraham rejoiced as he looked forward to my coming. He saw it and was glad.”

    John 8:58

    58“Truly, truly, I tell you,” Jesus declared, “before Abraham was born, I am!”
     
  7. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    What proof do you have that Israel is the "Church" Jesus Christ established other than the "church" saying so?
     
  8. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Israel is not Israel ... there is neither greek nor Jew ... we are all the same in Christ ... members of His body

    1 Corinthians 12:27

    Now you are Christ's body, and individually members of it.

    Romans 12:4-5
    For just as we have many members in one body and all the members do not have the same function, so we, who are many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.

    1 Corinthians 12:12

    For even as the body is one and yet has many members, and all the members of the body, though they are many, are one body, so also is Christ.

    Ephesians 4:4

    There is one body and one Spirit, just as also you were called in one hope of your calling;

    Colossians 1:24

    Now I rejoice in my sufferings for your sake, and in my flesh I do my share on behalf of His body, which is the church, in filling up what is lacking in Christ's afflictions.

    Galatians 3

    23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith. 27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.
     
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  9. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    So Israel is not the Christian church?
     
  10. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Everything is spiritual ... and everything is in and through Jesus.
     
  11. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    All the versions I'm finding says Israel in 2 chronicles 30:6. I'll have to look into that more.

    But still, God said
    (Exo 3:15) And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

    So why did these three call God "LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel"?
    Names are important, like how Hannah was the first to call God's name as The LORD of Hosts - but that would be another thread! :)
     
  12. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    Interesting. I was thinking there was something to it because the Name is used three times - three being significant from what I understand - and because the Name was used by Elijah, David and Hezekiah.
    So, if "Israel" represents the redeemed, the physical and spiritual seeds, did these three use the Name the LORD God of Abraham, Isaac, and Israel because they knew and believed?
    (Well, that idea makes me feel a bit awestruck and humbled!)
     
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  13. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    Thank you for that. There are lots of lessons and insights to learn from the Bible, including in the history sections. More people should read it.
     
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  14. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    The seeds of Marcion are still prevalent in the church I see.
    Did not the Spirit of Adonai dwell within and through the Jewish body of Yeshua? Isn't Yeshua fully Spirit and fully man? Doesn't Yeshua have a physical body?

    Do you believe in the physical restoration of the people and nation of Israel? And finally, Don't you believe the Spirit of Adonai dwells within physical people/nations?

    Your denial of the children of Israel is duly noted.

    Where is this body, if not made up of physical people?

    I always noticed how Christian's fully erase the Jew in this verse but never apply it equally to the Greek. If you were to apply both to the same measure not only would there be no Jewish nation there would be no Gentile nations either.

    But I bet the Vatican would have something to say about that.

    Everything is not spiritual. Adonai dwells within the physical hearts of his children, and replacement theology is a red flag for the Messianic community.

    John 17
    14 I have given them Your word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world just as I am not of the world. 15 I am not asking that You take them out of the world, but that You keep them from the evil one. 16 They are not of the world, just as I am not of the world. ​

    Not of the world BUT still in the world. Kept till the day of our redemption.

    17 “Make them holy in the truth. Your word is truth. 18 Just as You sent Me into the world, so I have sent them into the world. 19 And for their sakes I make Myself holy, so that they also may be made holy in truth.”​

    Life is in the blood... think about that in regards to everything being spiritual.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2019
  15. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    Yes, just like the prophets knew. Did you realize that Isaac was the only person who did not have his name changed in that group? Abram's name was changed to Abraham and Jacob's name was changed to Israel, but Isaac remained Isaac. Isaac is a figure of Yeshua who's name is from the foundation of the world. Unchanging and eternal. The name above all names.
     
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  16. chunkofcoal

    chunkofcoal Messianic Christian

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    Your connection between Isaac and Yeshua made me think about God being called "The Fear of Isaac" and about Yeshua being "heard in that He feared".
     
  17. eleos1954

    eleos1954 God is Love Supporter

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    Yes ... and how does HE do that? Spiritually.

    Ezekiel 36:26 And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh.

    1 Corinthians 3:16

    Do you not know that you are a temple of God and that the Spirit of God dwells in you?

    Ezekiel 36:27

    "I will put My Spirit within you and cause you to walk in My statutes, and you will be careful to observe My ordinances.

    2 Timothy 1:14

    Guard, through the Holy Spirit who dwells in us, the treasure which has been entrusted to you.

    Romans 8:11

    But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.
     
  18. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    Ah yes, the budding of wisdom. Another way to better understand it is to consider the synonym Reverence.
    • admiration
    • adoration
    • awe
    • deference
    • devotion
    • esteem
    • loyalty
    • piety
    • respect
    • veneration
    • apotheosis
    • approbation
    • approval
    • bow
    • deification
    • devoutness
    • fealty
    • fear
    • genuflection
    • homage
    • honor
    • love
    • obeisance
    • obsequiousness
    • praise
    • prostration
    • religiousness
    • worship
    • high esteem
    When understood as such it starts to make sense. These are the actions Adonai sees when we "fear" him. This is what causes the heart of Adonai to respond in mercy to us. This is the beginning of teshuvah.
     
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  19. TreWalker

    TreWalker Walking Tree

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    Yes.
    I like your quotes. Reminds me of the new covenant promises given through Jeremiah.


    31
    32 “But this is the covenant I will make with the house of Israel after those days” —it is a declaration of Adonai—
    “I will put My Torah within them. Yes, I will write it on their heart.
    I will be their God
    and they will be My people. 33
    No longer will each teach his neighbor
    or each his brother, saying: ‘Know Adonai,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest.”
    it is a declaration of Adonai. “For I will forgive their iniquity, their sin I will remember no more.”

    Israel's redemption is of the Spirit. The same Spirit offered to both brothers (Jews) and neighbors (Gentiles) redeems us both.

    The main difference between the old covenant and the new covenant is not that the Torah (or Israel) would be done away with but that it would be written on their hearts. Ezekiel also speaks about this very same thing.

    Do you realize that even in her unbelief God will honor his promise to Israel. God actually set up the covenant that way in Genesis 15.

    God alone made covenant with Abraham without requiring him to do the same. Instead he put him in a deep sleep. This covenant of grace enables God to bless Israel even if she is in unbelief. Unlike the new covenant the covenant of circumcision was not a covenant that promised eternal life. It was specifically between Abraham and his natural seed. And to this day God honors his promise to Israel through circumcision. The Jewish people are blessed despite their rejection of Yeshua from the majority, there has always been a faithful remnant.

    And he continues to honor his covenant. Many get hung up in understanding that God can honor two covenants at one time. The new covenant surpasses the covenant of circumcision in every way, but that doesn’t mean that it cancels it out. And part of the covenant of circumcision was God giving the land of Israel to the Jewish people as an everlasting possession. Genesis 17:7-8

    Adams covenant still stands, broken as it is. As does Noah, or can the earth be deluged by water again now? Abraham's covenant is firmly committed to by God as eternal. And Moses covenant still stands as long as the Jewish people exist. As broken as our people have rendered it.

    The new covenant surpasses these covenants in every way, but that doesn’t mean that it cancels out the people or the blessings that are promised.

    Redemption and reconciliation are funny this way. They don't give the dogmatic a foothold. All will be humbled, or humiliated.
     
  20. visionary

    visionary Your God is my God... Ruth said, so say I. Supporter

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    Not everything. Your flesh is not spiritual.
     
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