Looking for answers and questioning

AMM · Aug 20, 2018

Former LCMS here, now a catechumen. I don't claim to be an expert at Orthodox theology by any means, but I'd be happy to chat with you about stuff over PM if you send me a message and I can get more in depth. Also feel free to find my old posts and stuff here in TAW - I definitely parsed through a lot of stuff and asked a plethora of questions over the past 2ish years.

Moses Medina · Aug 20, 2018

As Lutherans we have the Treasury of Daily Prayer, it follows the hours of prayer, matins vespers etc, what resource can I look into with something along these lines.

AMM · Aug 20, 2018

dario68w said:
As Lutherans we have the Treasury of Daily Prayer, it follows the hours of prayer, matins vespers etc, what resource can I look into with something along these lines.

The Great Horologion, I think, is more or less equivalent, but I could be wrong.

ArmyMatt · Aug 20, 2018

AMM said:
The Great Horologion, I think, is more or less equivalent, but I could be wrong.

yep, that'd be the one

Moses Medina · Aug 21, 2018

What resources are there where I can read the church fathers in addition to the didache? Im having a hard time finding resources.

ArmyMatt · Aug 21, 2018

dario68w said:
What resources are there where I can read the church fathers in addition to the didache? Im having a hard time finding resources.

the ANF and NPNF are great and are online

~Anastasia~ · Aug 21, 2018

dario68w said:
What is thr difference between tbe antiochian orthodox church of america and the orthodox church of America? Are there any titles to be weary of that hold the orthpdox name here in the states?

If you're ever wondering about a particular parish, priest, etc. you can check here.

http://www.assemblyofbishops.org/directories/

But Antiocian, OCA (Orthodox Church of America), Russian, Greek, and many others of different ethnicities are in communion. It can be tricky at first, or even after a while. Sometimes a schismatic group has a very close-sounding name, but most of the time they do tend to call themselves something like "the one true only Orthodox" Church or something like that. This is a good resource to check though.

~Anastasia~ · Aug 21, 2018

dario68w said:
We would hold that it is a change of a person, but keep in mind we Lutherans hold to original sin and thus remain in a sinful state no matter how much we abstain from habitual or realized sin.

Side note its been great talking things through and I look forward to more!

We still would say we are sinful and in need of continued repentance. In fact, the holier people I have met tend to see their own sins the most vividly and be the most grieved over them.

But we do expect actual change in ourselves. We don't just resign ourselves to sin (I'm not saying Lutherans do either?). It's maybe difficult to explain but a good guideline I've seen is that we rely on the grace of God and seek real transformation. But anything in which we fail (and we will, though ideally these should become much finer - less gross - sins) ... when we fail we simply humble ourselves and say "what did I expect? I am but a sinful man" then repent and begin leaning on God again.

I can't say that I truly understand the Lutheran viewpoint. But at times it does seem a bit different. We are less pessimistic about man's actual nature. The whole "sin boldly" quote especially gave me pause, but I know that I must have misunderstood Luther's intent.

Moses Medina · Aug 21, 2018

Sin Boldly, I am going to paraphrase, but the context was hyperbolic to extenuate grace. Sin Boldly for the grace of God is bolder.

There are obvious distinct differences so far I am reading on, many things however I am finding common ground but with different wording. Regardless, I am hitting it hard and reading, with prayer and not relying on SOLELY Lutheran publications I hope to eother find compfort in Lutheranism or hop the fence to your churches claims of being the true one holy catholic apostolic church. Please keep me in prayers.

~Anastasia~ said:
We still would say we are sinful and in need of continued repentance. In fact, the holier people I have met tend to see their own sins the most vividly and be the most grieved over them.

But we do expect actual change in ourselves. We don't just resign ourselves to sin (I'm not saying Lutherans do either?). It's maybe difficult to explain but a good guideline I've seen is that we rely on the grace of God and seek real transformation. But anything in which we fail (and we will, though ideally these should become much finer - less gross - sins) ... when we fail we simply humble ourselves and say "what did I expect? I am but a sinful man" then repent and begin leaning on God again.

I can't say that I truly understand the Lutheran viewpoint. But at times it does seem a bit different. We are less pessimistic about man's actual nature. The whole "sin boldly" quote especially gave me pause, but I know that I must have misunderstood Luther's intent.

ArmyMatt · Aug 21, 2018

dario68w said:
There are obvious distinct differences so far I am reading on, many things however I am finding common ground but with different wording. Regardless, I am hitting it hard and reading, with prayer and not relying on SOLELY Lutheran publications I hope to eother find compfort in Lutheranism or hop the fence to your churches claims of being the true one holy catholic apostolic church. Please keep me in prayers.

prayers! let us know what you find!

~Anastasia~ · Aug 21, 2018

dario68w said:
Sin Boldly, I am going to paraphrase, but the context was hyperbolic to extenuate grace. Sin Boldly for the grace of God is bolder.

There are obvious distinct differences so far I am reading on, many things however I am finding common ground but with different wording. Regardless, I am hitting it hard and reading, with prayer and not relying on SOLELY Lutheran publications I hope to eother find compfort in Lutheranism or hop the fence to your churches claims of being the true one holy catholic apostolic church. Please keep me in prayers.

Certainly, prayers for you. By all means, please continue asking anything you like.

And I thought rhatvsurely must be what Luther intended. It's just a bit shocking to hear.

Moses Medina · Aug 22, 2018

I have a question about fasting.

I am aware it is practiced every Wednesday, Froday and Sunday morning.

Besides sunday, what goes into the fast for Wednesdays and Fridays, I am aware of what to avoid Im sure there are many who dont consume anything at all until dinner... But what exactly is the extent of it? Do you eat meats poultry and fish at dinner and abstained all day, do you feast for dinner but still abstain, etc.

Again thank you!

ArmyMatt · Aug 22, 2018

dario68w said:
I have a question about fasting.

I am aware it is practiced every Wednesday, Froday and Sunday morning.

Besides sunday, what goes into the fast for Wednesdays and Fridays, I am aware of what to avoid Im sure there are many who dont consume anything at all until dinner... But what exactly is the extent of it? Do you eat meats poultry and fish at dinner and abstained all day, do you feast for dinner but still abstain, etc.

Again thank you!

typical fasting is nothing with a backbone or came from something with a backbone. so we go vegan. portions are also typically smaller.

Sunday is strict from midnight til Communion.

Hazelelponi · Aug 22, 2018

Can I ask questions then?

My husband and I aren't Lutheran because he feels they didn't go far enough in breaking away from Catholicism, and in being around them some I kind of agree. But we are reformed..I figure that's close anyway..

That said, so Orthodox doesn't teach the total depravity of man?

That seems weird to me because I actually believe in the total depravity of man.

Not here to argue...

ArmyMatt · Aug 22, 2018

Hazelelponi said:
Can I ask questions then?

My husband and I aren't Lutheran because he feels they didn't go far enough in breaking away from Catholicism, and in being around them some I kind of agree. But we are reformed..I figure that's close anyway..

That said, so Orthodox doesn't teach the total depravity of man?

That seems weird to me because I actually believe in the total depravity of man.

Not here to argue...

correct. we do not teach that man is totally depraved.

gurneyhalleck1 · Aug 22, 2018

Moderately depraved....

ArmyMatt said:
correct. we do not teach that man is totally depraved.

ArmyMatt · Aug 22, 2018

gurneyhalleck1 said:
Moderately depraved....

depraved? yes. totally depraved? no.

~Anastasia~ · Aug 22, 2018

Hazelelponi said:
Can I ask questions then?

My husband and I aren't Lutheran because he feels they didn't go far enough in breaking away from Catholicism, and in being around them some I kind of agree. But we are reformed..I figure that's close anyway..

That said, so Orthodox doesn't teach the total depravity of man?

That seems weird to me because I actually believe in the total depravity of man.

Not here to argue...

If you want to get into the details, it might help if you explained what you consider total depravity to mean? (I know there's a sort of textbook definition but not sure if you want to start there.)

We are all bent to self/sin. We all WILL sin (from the point of view of one being born). All do sin.

But if you want to go further than that?

TBH, even when I was in those circles, I couldn't accept total depravity. Young children, while not perfect, tend toward forgiveness and love and a degree of purity in their hearts. I've met people who come across as totally depraved, but I think that was the result of their choices and how they interact with the world - not how they were born.

Hazelelponi · Aug 22, 2018

Anastasia - that's okay I got my answer. As I said I wasn't here to argue or debate. Simple question, simple answer. It's something you don't believe in or teach.

I understand and thank you.

gurneyhalleck1 · Aug 22, 2018

Somewhat depraved upon occasion?

ArmyMatt said:
depraved? yes. totally depraved? no.

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