Looking for advice

[SkyWriting]

At church today I almost had a panic attack and I had to step out for the first half of the service. This is the second time this has happened to me.

I'm not sure what I really believe anymore, to be honest. I believe in Jesus, but I'm not sure I can be part of my congregation . My ethics are far more radical, and I'm critical of much of the "Christian tradition" in that area, of bourgeois morality, and I'm not sure where I stand in my congregation. I'm not sure I can remain a Lutheran in good standing. To be honest, I'm disgusted with American Christianity and the mediocrity and mental and spiritual laziness of many people. I feel like Lutherans are not "Red Letter Christians" enough, that it's cheap grace and mediocrity.

A few days ago I watched a video by a psychiatrist named Daniel Fisher talking about his own process of overcoming schizophrenia. He admitted to being an agnostic at one point, but he had such a profound authenticity to him that it really gave me pause. He seemed like a genuine caring and spiritual person who has caught onto some profound insights about reality through his own unique experience with himself and helping other people. It makes my own religion look cheap in comparison.

I'm worried my religion is committed too much to wooden dogmatism, pessimism, and discounts human experience. Especially after a conversation I had with my pastor convinced me that while he is a caring person, there is something missing in his character. I'm genuinely worried I am leaving behind my own authentic voice and becoming part of a herd in the name of conformity. I'm starting to feel my basic non-religious impulse is correct, and that I simply cannot find a way to be a Christian.

In addition, my prayer life has gradually been reduced to zero over the years. When I pray, it's like talking to a brick wall, and I stumble over something to say. I would like to get some spiritual advice but I don't know where to turn.

Prayer is tricky. The ego wants to ask for stuff and gain control.
Who Else Want's Their Prayers Answered Even Before You Pray?

 

[Tigger45]

Hoping the OP has been able to work some of these issues out and find God’s direction for this stage of his life in Christ.

 

[FireDragon76]

I'm still struggling. I feel like I'm getting very little out of going to church. I rarely go now days.

 

[FireDragon76]

Part of the problem is that I believe much of the religion I find at church, or on this forum, just doesn't operate on my intellectual level. I am not saying religion must only appeal to the intelligent, but when it is set up to intentionally exclude them, then I find that problematic.

 

[bekkilyn]

Part of the problem is that I believe much of the religion I find at church, or on this forum, just doesn't operate on my intellectual level. I am not saying religion must only appeal to the intelligent, but when it is set up to intentionally exclude them, then I find that problematic.

I find it very problematic too, and don't at all believe that "willful ignorance" is what God intended for us by creating us with brains. Some of this problem comes from the relatively new-ish belief that all of the written scriptures are infallible and inerrant when anyone with a brain can easily see that there are numerous contradictions that disprove this belief. However, someone who has put his or her faith in this idea of the *bible* (vs. Christ) as the very foundation of their beliefs MUST ignore these obvious contradictions and pretend that they don't exist or else their entire faith will be shattered.

Alternately, those who put their foundation in the *living* Word of Jesus Christ and in the event of his Resurrection aren't shattered if they find out that in one chapter, God told Noah to allow two of every kind of animal into the ark, and in another chapter, he told Noah to allow two unclean animals, but seven of every clean animal. We don't have to pretend that one chapter doesn't exist or come up with ridiculous reasons why they don't contradict each other, but can allow that regardless of the number of animals that went into the ark, the overall and true message in scripture of God's grace and mercy is still intact, and that while words written by (inspired) humans can still have issues despite their truths, the living God himself is still infallible even if humans who wrote down words inspired by him were not infallible.

So then Christians who try to evangelize unbelievers who see these obvious issues aren't successful because people who don't care what "the bible says" see right through it, even though they might be very open to God himself and God's grace through Jesus Christ.

I personally don't believe that being a Christian is about being willfully ignorant as some proof of faith. I believe that God wants us to question and learn and mature in our faith.

 

[hedrick]

There are several problems here.

First, not many people are interested in intellectual issues in the first place. This isn't specific to theology.

Second, many intelligent people have been so turned off by the many arguments that they've given up on the usefulness of theology.

Third, much of our theology conceptualizes the issues so differently from the NT writers that it's no wonder attempts to get Biblical answers are all over the map.

Some of these problems are solvable and some aren't. Personally I find that moderate modern theology avoids at least some of them. I'm particularly impressed by Doug Ottati's new systematic theology.

 

[FireDragon76]

There are several problems here.

First, not many people are interested in intellectual issues in the first place. This isn't specific to theology.

Second, many intelligent people have been so turned off by the many arguments that they've given up on the usefulness of theology.

Third, much of our theology conceptualizes the issues so differently from the NT writers that it's no wonder attempts to get Biblical answers are all over the map.

Some of these problems are solvable and some aren't. Personally I find that moderate modern theology avoids at least some of them. I'm particularly impressed by Doug Ottati's new systematic theology.

I don't think the people at church are fundamentalists in the usual sense that is understood, that's not my issue. But they do seem unaware of the modern landscape of the theology that actually exists in our denomination. The only place you see this peeking through is in some of the language used in our prayers. But otherwise people are quite happy with 1950's religion.

My pastor seems actively hostile to some progressive positions I believe in, such as open communion, for instance. He is also a fan of C.S. Lewis, whereas as I have matured as a Christian, I have become more critical of him. Those are just some examples of how we are not on the same page.

 

[FireDragon76]

I suppose what really bothers me is that I don't think anything the pastor preaches about is all that relevant to my life, and it's been getting worse in the past few years.

A few months ago the pastor actually made a statement about global warming that trivialized the issue. Even the Pope has said that there is a moral imperative for humanity. I stopped to ask myself recently if climate denial is something an educated or ethical guardian of souls would say, and the answer just came to me clearly, "no", of course it isn't. I need to go with my gut more and stop doubting myself. It's not wrong to leave such a religious organization, not at all. It's two hours of my life I could spend doing things that are much more genuinely meaningful and not have to be faced with my hypocrisy and indifference on Judgement Day.

I don't know my church's stance on environmental issues, but I expect more out of an organization that claims to speak for God. What could be a more important moral issue than something that threatens billions of people with ruin? The pastors remark trivialized an issue I take seriously and one that causes some apprehension. There is no Gospel there for me, just a kindler, gentler version of 1950's style cultural conservativism.

So I think I am skipping church this Lent.

 

[Tigger45]

I suppose what really bothers me is that I don't think anything the pastor preaches about is all that relevant to my life, and it's been getting worse in the past few years.

A few months ago the pastor actually made a statement about global warming that trivialized the issue. Even the Pope has said that there is a moral imperative for humanity. I stopped to ask myself recently if climate denial is something an educated or ethical guardian of souls would say, and the answer just came to me clearly, "no", of course it isn't. I need to go with my gut more and stop doubting myself. It's not wrong to leave such a religious organization, not at all. It's two hours of my life I could spend doing things that are much more genuinely meaningful and not have to be faced with my hypocrisy and indifference on Judgement Day.

I don't know my church's stance on environmental issues, but I expect more out of an organization that claims to speak for God. What could be a more important moral issue than something that threatens billions of people with ruin? The pastors remark trivialized an issue I take seriously and one that causes some apprehension. There is no Gospel there for me, just a kindler, gentler version of 1950's style cultural conservativism.

So I think I am skipping church this Lent.

I remember when you switched to your current congregation. I think the change was needed and good for you at the time. I have found looking back at my history of congregations/denominations and realized they were stepping stones along my particular walk with Christ. I’m hoping you’ll find another local congregation for the next phase of your journey. My circumstances are a bit different than yours but I’m looking to make changes myself.

 

[FireDragon76]

Churches can be so unlike Christ. Christ was the good shepherd that went looking for the one lost sheep. Modern churches, at best, lament the loss of the lost sheep, but won't go looking for them.

Another thing that happened to me is that a few weeks ago, Christ's words hit home, "Let the dead bury their own dead". Many mainline churches are more worried about alienating those well-heeled grey-haired parishoners than reaching out to ordinary people outside the community. Our denomination is known for taking some liberal social stances but the reality is when the rubber hits the road, it means very little in terms of actual commitments. Yet we are still punished for those same stances in the wider world. We cannot serve too masters, we need to decide if we are going to be a progressive denomination or not, and have some sense of agreement on these matters.

I don't pretend to know the solution to these problems. Of course there is no perfect church, and that is something I do consider. But I think there's a difference between being realistic, and being lazy.

 

[bekkilyn]

I suppose what really bothers me is that I don't think anything the pastor preaches about is all that relevant to my life, and it's been getting worse in the past few years.

A few months ago the pastor actually made a statement about global warming that trivialized the issue. Even the Pope has said that there is a moral imperative for humanity. I stopped to ask myself recently if climate denial is something an educated or ethical guardian of souls would say, and the answer just came to me clearly, "no", of course it isn't. I need to go with my gut more and stop doubting myself. It's not wrong to leave such a religious organization, not at all. It's two hours of my life I could spend doing things that are much more genuinely meaningful and not have to be faced with my hypocrisy and indifference on Judgement Day.

I don't know my church's stance on environmental issues, but I expect more out of an organization that claims to speak for God. What could be a more important moral issue than something that threatens billions of people with ruin? The pastors remark trivialized an issue I take seriously and one that causes some apprehension. There is no Gospel there for me, just a kindler, gentler version of 1950's style cultural conservativism.

So I think I am skipping church this Lent.

Too many Christians have trivialized our obligation to be good stewards of God's creation. Climate change denial is not only anti-intellectual, but also irresponsible.

 

[FireDragon76]

Too many Christians have trivialized our obligation to be good stewards of God's creation. Climate change denial is not only anti-intellectual, but also irresponsible.

The sad thing is that the pastor is a well-meaning man, I do not doubt that, and we live in a culture steeped in this nonsense where people play fast and loose with facts. We should all care more about truth than that, especially truth that potentially impacts many real people.

Frankly, the pastor needs to spend less time reading Catholic mystics and more time reading a newspaper. I also think it would be great if more pastors were educated in science itself.

The hard thing is that there are many people at church I sincerely love and would miss, and my absence will hurt them. But it's not always a good relationships for me.

 

[FireDragon76]

I have just been forcing myself to get more involved in church, and have started attending the vespers service on wednesdays during Lent also. I think I need the social contact. But I also realize church cannot be my primary spiritual resource, at least not until things change at the church. And I might want to get involved in a bible study. I used to go to those and it was a way to get in your 2 cents occasionally and feel out other peoples perspectives.

 

[FireDragon76]

I just wanted to say something happened to me in the past week and it's really been a healing experience for me. Last week I had told Pastor I had been a "sinning boldly" kind of Lutheran, but now I wanted something different.

We had a moving Tenebrae service with the adoration of the Cross and our first Easter vigil. I realize my sense of calling was not wrong, that this is where I belong.

My S.O., who is formerly Pentecostal, also said she felt something happening on Maundy Thursday. It was just a very powerful spiritual experience. I noticed something too. Though I am high fuctioning autistic and I rarely smile, I was able to smile at pastor and I felt like giving him a hug, so I did that. It feels like pieces of my life are starting to come back together after years of feeling broken.

I am otherwise exhausted though from 4 days of going to church.