Looking for a book on economic justice

[PloverWing]

[ This is the WWMC forum. Non-liberals are welcome to join the discussion, especially if you have good book ideas, but please no snarky comments about social justice being a waste of time. ]

I've been involved in a book club at my church for the last year. The group includes our parish priest plus about half a dozen church members. We've read several books on topics related to ethics and social justice: two books on race, one on gender, one on sexuality, and most recently we're finishing one on economics. As we discussed race and gender, economic disparities and unjust economic systems kept coming up, and we felt it was time to discuss economics directly.

Our current book is Being Consumed, by William Cavanaugh, which we chose because some of our priest's friends recommended it to him. We've been disappointed in the current book; it turned out to be more about changing our feelings and less about changing the world than we'd hoped. (The book is fine, and contains some interesting philosophy; it's just not quite what we were looking for.)

So: The ideal book for us would be one that explores ways of working toward an economically just society, from a Christian perspective. Has anyone read a book like this that you might recommend to us?

 

[Halbhh]

[ This is the WWMC forum. Non-liberals are welcome to join the discussion, especially if you have good book ideas, but please no snarky comments about social justice being a waste of time. ]

I've been involved in a book club at my church for the last year. The group includes our parish priest plus about half a dozen church members. We've read several books on topics related to ethics and social justice: two books on race, one on gender, one on sexuality, and most recently we're finishing one on economics. As we discussed race and gender, economic disparities and unjust economic systems kept coming up, and we felt it was time to discuss economics directly.

Our current book is Being Consumed, by William Cavanaugh, which we chose because some of our priest's friends recommended it to him. We've been disappointed in the current book; it turned out to be more about changing our feelings and less about changing the world than we'd hoped. (The book is fine, and contains some interesting philosophy; it's just not quite what we were looking for.)

So: The ideal book for us would be one that explores ways of working toward an economically just society, from a Christian perspective. Has anyone read a book like this that you might recommend to us?

If we want to do more than only talk about economic justice, it's needed to understand the real causes that the poor (of all races) work longer hours while the wealthy multiply their wealth more and more.... The same causes as long ago, but a certain Henry George figured out the good solution that actually works on a social-economic level (truly is fair and doesn't kill the economy), and we've only partly put his idea into practice, at times. Even today, we are perhaps doing 1/3rd of what George found, and that 1/3rd has helped so much.

Progress and Poverty
https://www.amazon.com/Progress-Poverty-Industrial-Depressions-Increase/dp/1975767098

from the wiki:Progress and Poverty - Wikipedia
"For some years prior to 1952 I was working on a history of American reform and over and over again my research ran into this fact: an enormous number of men and women, strikingly different people, men and women who were to lead 20th century America in a dozen fields of humane activity, wrote or told someone that their whole thinking had been redirected by reading Progress and Poverty in their formative years. In this respect no other book came anywhere near comparable influence.[3]

Progress and Poverty had perhaps even a larger impact around the world, in places such as Denmark, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand, where George's influence was enormous.[4]

 

[KeithAC]

[ This is the WWMC forum. Non-liberals are welcome to join the discussion, especially if you have good book ideas, but please no snarky comments about social justice being a waste of time. ]

I've been involved in a book club at my church for the last year. The group includes our parish priest plus about half a dozen church members. We've read several books on topics related to ethics and social justice: two books on race, one on gender, one on sexuality, and most recently we're finishing one on economics. As we discussed race and gender, economic disparities and unjust economic systems kept coming up, and we felt it was time to discuss economics directly.

Our current book is Being Consumed, by William Cavanaugh, which we chose because some of our priest's friends recommended it to him. We've been disappointed in the current book; it turned out to be more about changing our feelings and less about changing the world than we'd hoped. (The book is fine, and contains some interesting philosophy; it's just not quite what we were looking for.)

So: The ideal book for us would be one that explores ways of working toward an economically just society, from a Christian perspective. Has anyone read a book like this that you might recommend to us?

The bible is actually a very good book on economics, work hard, be wise with your wealth, don't be cruel to your slaves, trust God and be a joyful giver. One might also note, the bible quote of, the love of money being at the root of many evils, doesn't just mean greed, it's also bitterness and resentfulness when someone is upset because other people have more money then them, so think they deserve more then they get. As far as economics are concerned, ultimately people only need food, clothing and shelter, and perhaps just enough luxury to keep oneself away from being all work and no play.

 

[PloverWing]

The bible is actually a very good book on economics

The Gospel of Luke is especially relevant, yes.

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

The bible is actually a very good book on economics, work hard, be wise with your wealth, don't be cruel to your slaves, trust God and be a joyful giver. One might also note, the bible quote of, the love of money being at the root of many evils, doesn't just mean greed, it's also bitterness and resentfulness when someone is upset because other people have more money then them, so think they deserve more then they get. As far as economics are concerned, ultimately people only need food, clothing and shelter, and perhaps just enough luxury to keep oneself away from being all work and no play.

1-2 Peter is a good book on economics an may explain that the air in the top 1/3 is only created from the perfect storm. Who needs a card .... mama

 

[Halbhh]

@KeithAC
@PloverWing

Let's listen to the wonderful and life-giving instructions about economics and Life from Christ, our Lord and Savior:


19 “Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moths and vermin destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20 But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moths and vermin do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

22 “The eye is the lamp of the body. If your eyes are healthy, your whole body will be full of light. 23 But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

24 “No one can serve two masters. Either you will hate the one and love the other, or you will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve both God and money.

25 “Therefore I tell you, do not worry about your life, what you will eat or drink; or about your body, what you will wear. Is not life more than food, and the body more than clothes?

26 Look at the birds of the air; they do not sow or reap or store away in barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not much more valuable than they? 27 Can any one of you by worrying add a single hour to your life?

28“And why do you worry about clothes? See how the flowers of the field grow. They do not labor or spin.

29 Yet I tell you that not even Solomon in all his splendor was dressed like one of these. 30 If that is how God clothes the grass of the field, which is here today and tomorrow is thrown into the fire, will he not much more clothe you—you of little faith? 31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’

32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.

33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

Matthew 6 NIV


But when our brothers or sisters are in need, or are sick, or are a stranger....:

31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

 

[Strivax]

If we want to do more than only talk about economic justice, it's needed to understand the real causes that the poor (of all races) work longer hours while the wealthy multiply their wealth more and more.... The same causes as long ago, but a certain Henry George figured out the good solution that actually works on a social-economic level (truly is fair and doesn't kill the economy), and we've only partly put his idea into practice, at times. Even today, we are perhaps doing 1/3rd of what George found, and that 1/3rd has helped so much.

Progress and Poverty
https://www.amazon.com/Progress-Poverty-Industrial-Depressions-Increase/dp/1975767098

from the wiki:Progress and Poverty - Wikipedia
"For some years prior to 1952 I was working on a history of American reform and over and over again my research ran into this fact: an enormous number of men and women, strikingly different people, men and women who were to lead 20th century America in a dozen fields of humane activity, wrote or told someone that their whole thinking had been redirected by reading Progress and Poverty in their formative years. In this respect no other book came anywhere near comparable influence.[3]

Progress and Poverty had perhaps even a larger impact around the world, in places such as Denmark, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand, where George's influence was enormous.[4]

Thanks for that reccomendation. I am much concerned by poverty. That, and the rapid rate of environmental degradation we are witnessing are, in my opinion, the two main global issues facing our generation.

Anyway, I have bought the book, look forward to reading it, and maybe discsussing it here with anyone interested.

Best wishes, Strivax.

 

[Fantine]

Bridges Out of Poverty
Nickled and Dimed in America
All of Robert Reich books and essays
Elizabeth Warren books
Deer Hunting with Jesus

 

[Lukaris]

Perhaps:

On Social Justice: St. Basil the Great (Popular Patristics): C. Paul Schroeder: 9780881410532: Amazon.com: Books

On Social Justice: St. Basil the Great (Popular Patristics) [C. Paul Schroeder] on Amazon.com. *FREE* shipping on qualifying offers. On Social Justice: St. Basil the Great (Popular Patristics)

www.amazon.com

 

[The Liturgist]

Actually I would suggest the homiles of St. John Chrysostom concerning avarice. Recall that his Patriarchate in Constantinople came to an end when he repeatedly criticized the Empress for her decadent lifestyle, for example, her solid gold commode, which is an obscene waste of money even for someone like me who is a capitalist and not particularly interested in liberation theology or the social gospel. He argued that she should give the money wasted on the solid gold “throne” to the poor, and he was right, but she wouldn’t hear it, and had him death-marched in 406 AD.

St. Basil the Great meanwhile used the healthy treasury of the diocese of Caesarea-in-Cappadocia to finance construction of hostels, hospices, and the first ever hospital that we would recognize as such, all of which were provided as services to the local community.

We also have St. Nicholas of Myra, who famously dipped into the treasury of his church to spare three young girls from being forced into prostitution.

The character of Santa Claus is very clearly a composite of St. Nicholas and St. Basil.

Later, in England, Scotland and Russia, the monasteries played a vital role in providing social services to the public, until they were partially, under Czar Peter “the Great”, or entirely, under King Henry VIII, dispossessed of their ability to serve or dissolved outright.

 

[FireDragon76]

[ This is the WWMC forum. Non-liberals are welcome to join the discussion, especially if you have good book ideas, but please no snarky comments about social justice being a waste of time. ]

I've been involved in a book club at my church for the last year. The group includes our parish priest plus about half a dozen church members. We've read several books on topics related to ethics and social justice: two books on race, one on gender, one on sexuality, and most recently we're finishing one on economics. As we discussed race and gender, economic disparities and unjust economic systems kept coming up, and we felt it was time to discuss economics directly.

Our current book is Being Consumed, by William Cavanaugh, which we chose because some of our priest's friends recommended it to him. We've been disappointed in the current book; it turned out to be more about changing our feelings and less about changing the world than we'd hoped. (The book is fine, and contains some interesting philosophy; it's just not quite what we were looking for.)

So: The ideal book for us would be one that explores ways of working toward an economically just society, from a Christian perspective. Has anyone read a book like this that you might recommend to us?

Sometimes changing your own perspective is important too, so don't discount that. It shouldn't be about trying to figure out the morass of contemporary politics, necessarily. Social structures are important, but social structures are not more primary than individuals that make them up, just as a body is nothing without the individual cells that make it up.

I tend to agree with the Indian philosopher, Sri Aurobindo, that raising consciousness is more important than immediate political concerns. That's why I favor engaged contemplative spirituality, rather than focusing on trying to find political solutions in the existing order of things. Until a critical mass of people can reach an integral stage of human development, politics will remain broken. It will just suck up peoples energy for no purpose other than justifying regressive tendencies in the collective consciousness.


So I'd say, trying to deconstruct and unpack your own obstacles in your own life and focusing on personal development is the way to go. That can involve reading about various social and environmental problems, but it needs to be integrated within ones spirituality and commitment to self-improvement, and not outside of them (ie, politics is not a substitute for inner work, this is a huge problem right now among secular and religious social activists).

 

[Halbhh]

So: The ideal book for us would be one that explores ways of working toward an economically just society, from a Christian perspective. Has anyone read a book like this that you might recommend to us?

This book (below), while not meant to be Christian in particular (but it's Christian to apply it to society...) -- I'd recommend (after reading many hundreds of articles and books on economics) y'all read Henry George from the 19th century (or a good article on the book at least), below, where he explained what a just/fair/best economic system would look like. (and he's not ideological, but wise and insightful)

I was looking for a quick description, and the wiki is more like a teaser, as it doesn't talk about the main ideas much (of course), but is more about how much impact this book had on changing attitudes. But, that's a good teaser:

Progress and Poverty - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Halbhh]

Sometimes changing your own perspective is important too, so don't discount that. It shouldn't be about trying to figure out the morass of contemporary politics, necessarily. Social structures are important, but social structures are not more primary than individuals that make them up, just as a body is nothing without the individual cells that make it up.

I tend to agree with the Indian philosopher, Sri Aurobindo, that raising consciousness is more important than immediate political concerns. That's why I favor engaged contemplative spirituality, rather than focusing on trying to find political solutions in the existing order of things. Until a critical mass of people can reach an integral stage of human development, politics will remain broken. It will just suck up peoples energy for no purpose other than justifying regressive tendencies in the collective consciousness.


So I'd say, trying to deconstruct and unpack your own obstacles in your own life and focusing on personal development is the way to go. That can involve reading about various social and environmental problems, but it needs to be integrated within ones spirituality and commitment to self-improvement, and not outside of them (ie, politics is not a substitute for inner work, this is a huge problem right now among secular and religious social activists).

Salvation is only ever one person at a time, yes.