Living together before marriage

JillLars

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actually oldominion, there are other reasons...I have quite a few reasons I am not getting married right now, and it has nothing to do with "not knowin if he's the right one".

1. I want to have a nice wedding, and I will have to pay for it myself.
2. I want to focus on finishing college before planning a huge celebration.
3. (this is probably the most important one) My parents are going through a messy divorce, and it certainly isn't a time in my life to be asking my family to help with a celebration. I need to let them work things out first.

If I could afford to pay for college, rent and every other expense by myself, I wouldn't have to live with my boyfriend, and I could pay for my own wedding right now too. The bible says, once you sleep with someone you are to be married to them. It doesn't give a time requirement of when you have to get married to them. God knows if you are married or not, regardless of whether you have a piece of paper saying it, I would bet there are a lot of people who do have that piece of paper who God would consider un-married.

This isn't about sex before marriage though, its about living together before marriage. As the first post said, he hasn't had sex w/ his girlfriend yet. I highly doubt he would have sex with her if he lived with her for another year. In this day and age, if you have made it more than a couple of years, you're good to go, there are always oppurtunities to have sex...living together doesn't make them more available (I would know...) especially not if you can exercise self control.
 
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hotknikkels

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Seriously, why put yourself in a situation why you can be tempted? God planned sex for marriage, so man and wife can be one...

Therefore why place yourself in a situation where you are in close quarters with someone you are sexual attracted to? That is a really stupid thing to do, no offence.

I would seriously any couple who are not married to not live together. You will have plenty of time to do that when you are married. Why rush? Why not wait?
 
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JillLars

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Well, here's a few reasons someone might want to live with their b/f or g/ f before marriage.

1. Rent is a lot cheaper while you're going to college.
2. You don't have to find some random person to live with while all of your best friends are away at colleges elsewhere.
3. You live with someoe you know you get along with and depend on.
4. You get to spend more time with your best friend.
5. You don't have to pay more than a 1,000 dollars a month for a dorm room at the state university.

I guess if we are tempted all the time, then we better not ever be in close quarters w/ our b/f or g/f, that argument is just stupid. If him and his girlfriend have made it this long w/out having sex, living together won't change much.
 
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hotknikkels

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I think if you are living together alone with your b/f or g/f, that ain't such a good idea. Even if you guys are okay with it - what if another Christian couple follow your example and they cannot resist temptation too good? Also, what kind of message are you giving to other people?

As Christians one of our responsibilites is to help protect fellow Christians from temptation. I am not arguing that you guys can't resist that temptation, but I am saying that other may see your example and say, "Well it works for them, so it should work for us". And then it goes pear-shaped for them.

Also, part of marrying someone is that thing about living together, learning about each other habits and stuff, I think that living together beforehand takes away part of the special bits of marriage, but hey, I can't tell you what to do, I can just advise you of what I believe.
 
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OracleX

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Today at 04:19 AM JillLars said this in Post #89

actually oldominion, there are other reasons...I have quite a few reasons I am not getting married right now, and it has nothing to do with "not knowin if he's the right one".


There is no good reason, but lets continue.

1. I want to have a nice wedding, and I will have to pay for it myself.

So get a job and live with some girlfriends.

2. I want to focus on finishing college before planning a huge celebration.

So?  Why does this mean you have to live with your boy friend.

3. (this is probably the most important one) My parents are going through a messy divorce, and it certainly isn't a time in my life to be asking my family to help with a celebration. I need to let them work things out first.

Refer back to reason number 1.  Get a job and live with some girlfriends. 

If I could afford to pay for college, rent and every other expense by myself, I wouldn't have to live with my boyfriend, and I could pay for my own wedding right now too. The bible says, once you sleep with someone you are to be married to them.

The Bible does not say that your are married once you sleep with someone you are not married to.  It says you are commiting fornication.

It doesn't give a time requirement of when you have to get married to them. God knows if you are married or not, regardless of whether you have a piece of paper saying it, I would bet there are a lot of people who do have that piece of paper who God would consider un-married.

Once again you are saying that God's way is not right for you.  That what God says is not relevant for you.  You do not have a convenant, you are not legally married - all you have is words, promises - which does not constitute a Biblical marriage.
 
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OracleX

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Today at 06:49 AM JillLars said this in Post #91

Well, here's a few reasons someone might want to live with their b/f or g/ f before marriage.

1. Rent is a lot cheaper while you're going to college.
2. You don't have to find some random person to live with while all of your best friends are away at colleges elsewhere.
3. You live with someoe you know you get along with and depend on.
4. You get to spend more time with your best friend.
5. You don't have to pay more than a 1,000 dollars a month for a dorm room at the state university.

I guess if we are tempted all the time, then we better not ever be in close quarters w/ our b/f or g/f, that argument is just stupid. If him and his girlfriend have made it this long w/out having sex, living together won't change much.

Response 1: So live with some girlfriends.

Response 2: So live with some girlfriends - make some friends if you have to.

Response 3: So live with some girlfriends - confilict is a part of life that you need to learn how to deal with.  If you can't deal with a conflict with a girlfriend then do you really think you can handle it right with a boyfriend?

Response 4: Get a best female friend.  The only difference is the time factor here is that you wouldn't be sleeping with him at night.  Oh darn.

Response 5: Live with some girlfriends.


 
 
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OracleX

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Jill, why are you posting here?  Really why?  As I have said in other posts, we love you and care about you and pray for you, but why are you still posting this stuff?

You have made it quite clear that what is said in the Bible on this issue is not for you.  Ok, you made your choice, we see you have made your choice.  We understand that money means a lot to you and that you struggle to trust God to meet your needs.  We are praying for you.  You come to a Christian forum asking for advice and got almost the same response from almost everyone here.  Yet you are bent on trying to convince us that we are mislead?  I am really confused as to your purpose in continuly stating your reasons why Gods way is not for you, that living together before marriage is fine, and how your life seems to be ruled by money. 

Please help me understand, I would really like to help you but you don't seem to be interested in hearing anything but someone to tell you that what you are doing right.  Well you are in the wrong place to hear that.  But you are in the right place for people to help you get out of your bad situation.
 
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LN

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I feel pretty strongly against living together before marriage. All of my biblical reasons have been stated so far, so I'd like to make some other points about it.

I lived with girlfriends before I got married. That was one of the most important things I could have done for both my marriage and my friendships. Those girls I lived with are still some of my best friends. In a marriage its so important to have a wonderful Christian support system outside of the marriage. I cannot empahsize how important this is - especially for women. Your husband cannot be your end-all for emotional support and fellowship, no matter how wonderful he is!

If you are still in college, I hate to say it but you are depriving yourself from wonderful experiences if you don't want to meet anyone else and live on campus. Yes, on-campus housing is expensive but its also qualifiable for financial aid, which off-campus housing is not. Please don't give up your college years to live like a married couple - you will have so much time to do that in the future! Those college years are some of the most formidable years of someone's life. I would not trade them for anything.

Also, I have seen many, many friends who have lived with thier boyfriends before marriage get really hurt. When a guy is living with a girl, no matter how much he loves her... he really doesn't have a whole lot of motivation to go out and get a ring (men please don't take offense this is just my observation). I have seen friends spend years and years fighting with their b/f about getting married. One of my friends even had to break up with her b/f when she finally realized he would never marry her. Another friend ended up getting a ring out of an ultimateum to move out - but who wants to have to do that?!!

Finally, living together is a very difficult thing to do and based on my observations - living together tends to make marriage more difficult. The reason is because when you are living together, many people are afraid or do not want to communicate their needs just because the situation is not "permanant." But when you are married you are forced communicate your needs, and then work through it. The mentality when living together often is "let's try this out and see how it goes" which then gets transferred to married living. This would explain why the divorce rate is higher for those who live together before marriage than those who do not.
 
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hotknikkels

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OracleX - I just decided that I love ya (as a brother) - I love the reply!!!

LN - well said

Actually there has been some research into this and it shows that people who have lived together before marriage are more highly likely to divorce than those people who have waited until marriage before living together - which I think is really cool!!!
 
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JillLars

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Today at 07:33 AM OracleX said this in Post #95

Jill, why are you posting here?  Really why?  As I have said in other posts, we love you and care about you and pray for you, but why are you still posting this stuff?

You have made it quite clear that what is said in the Bible on this issue is not for you.  Ok, you made your choice, we see you have made your choice.  We understand that money means a lot to you and that you struggle to trust God to meet your needs.  We are praying for you.  You come to a Christian forum asking for advice and got almost the same response from almost everyone here.  Yet you are bent on trying to convince us that we are mislead?  I am really confused as to your purpose in continuly stating your reasons why Gods way is not for you, that living together before marriage is fine, and how your life seems to be ruled by money. 

Please help me understand, I would really like to help you but you don't seem to be interested in hearing anything but someone to tell you that what you are doing right.  Well you are in the wrong place to hear that.  But you are in the right place for people to help you get out of your bad situation.


Well first of all, I am posting here because I'm a member and I think all opinions have a right to be heard.  So excuse me, but I am going to continue posting here.  You can say that I am going against God's way all you want, but you haven't shown me a shread of proof yet that your way is right, and better than my way.

Next, if you had read my post I said that my friends and girlfriends live out of town where they are going to school, or they already have living arrangements with their other friends.  I lived with one girlfriend for a year before I moved in with my boyfriend, and even though she's my best friend, she isn't responsible.  I would have to ask her for money for the rent or bills constantly, I would have to deal with her having people over who were yelling and shouting while I was trying to sleep or study.  I work nights so it isn't as easy as just meeting some friends, there aren't a lot of places to just go out and meet people around here.  I don't think its a good idea to live with a stranger because I don't know that person, and I don't know if I can depend on them for rent, among other things.  With my boyfriend, I can trust him, I know that he isn't going to have a bunch of guys come over with booze when we are underage (something my old roomie did)  I know that he will have money for the rent and won't blow it on clothes and **** (another thing my old roomie did).  The college that I go to doesn't have on-campus housing.  My boyfriend applied for financial aid last year and got nothin, he had to take out a loan to pay 1000 dollars a month for a dorm room with a roommate who smoked pot and got drunk every night. 

I take great offense to the fact that you say my life is run by money.  I trust God will provide for me when I need it, as he has helped me out before, but God also wants me to use common sense when making decisions about money in my life.  And from my past experiences living with a stranger, or even your best friend is not neccesarily a good financial move. 

So, please don't assume that you know me, or all of my circumstances.  And don't be telling me to stop posting my opinion, I am allowed to offer advice as I see fit.
 
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OLDoMiNiON

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Jill, as we've already discussed, i believe sex before marriage is wrong, and doing something such as living together, which is only going to increase the temptation, or the ease in your case, for you to have sex.
If you truly ask God for another place to stay, he *will* provide one! After all, "he will not let you be temped any more than you can bear".. if you don't want to be tempted that is.
So i sugges you pray long and hard, and decide if this is *really* how God wants you to be living.. i know know it's not easy to say, "Yes, i'm doing something wrong", but sometimes it takes a stronger person to admit that.. and to actually do something about it!
I pray that God will provide you with an alternative solution, and that you won't be too closed mind to see the door open to you when he does!

Love in Christ
Chris
 
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the_man

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Today at 01:30 AM OLDoMiNiON said this in Post #88

I think the only reason you would not want to, is because you are not 100% sure that you want to marry that person... if not, why are you living together...

Just visiting this thread (again) and I must say that I can't let what OLDoMiNiON said just slip by.  He hit a nail square on the head.  If two people are 100% commited to stay together, they would have no problem making vows (promises) to one another in front of God and others.  Without these vows (promises) the two are not bound to the relationship irrespective of living arrangements.

Here is a link to "Mere Christianity" Chapter 16 'Christian Marriage' by CS Lewis.  It is a read I recommend to all.
 
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OracleX

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Today at 04:35 PM JillLars said this in Post #98

Well first of all, I am posting here because I'm a member and I think all opinions have a right to be heard.  So excuse me, but I am going to continue posting here.  You can say that I am going against God's way all you want, but you haven't shown me a shread of proof yet that your way is right, and better than my way.

We are glad you are a member here and we pray that you will find truth here too.  As far as proof ... there has been many people who have give you proof and I have twice, given you a very detailed explaination from the Bible.  (For your benefit I will post it again for you.)  You have been given much proof tha not my way is right, but God's way is right.  Our lives as Christians are not our ways but God's ways.  If we follow our ways, we will be lead a stray.

Deuteronomy 26:17 "You have today declared the LORD to be your God, and that you would walk in His ways and keep His statutes, His commandments and His ordinances, and listen to His voice."

Psalm 25:4 "Make me know Your ways, O LORD; Teach me Your paths."

Proverbs 3:6 "In all your ways acknowledge Him, And He will make your paths straight."

Isaiah 55:7-9
Let the wicked forsake his way
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
And let him return to the LORD,
And He will have compassion on him,
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon. 

"For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways," declares the LORD. 

"For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
 So are My ways higher than your ways
 And My thoughts than your thoughts."


Next, if you had read my post I said that my friends and girlfriends live out of town where they are going to school, or they already have living arrangements with their other friends.  I lived with one girlfriend for a year before I moved in with my boyfriend, and even though she's my best friend, she isn't responsible.  I would have to ask her for money for the rent or bills constantly, I would have to deal with her having people over who were yelling and shouting while I was trying to sleep or study.  I work nights so it isn't as easy as just meeting some friends, there aren't a lot of places to just go out and meet people around here.  I don't think its a good idea to live with a stranger because I don't know that person, and I don't know if I can depend on them for rent, among other things.  With my boyfriend, I can trust him, I know that he isn't going to have a bunch of guys come over with booze when we are underage (something my old roomie did)  I know that he will have money for the rent and won't blow it on clothes and **** (another thing my old roomie did).  The college that I go to doesn't have on-campus housing.  My boyfriend applied for financial aid last year and got nothin, he had to take out a loan to pay 1000 dollars a month for a dorm room with a roommate who smoked pot and got drunk every night. 

I take great offense to the fact that you say my life is run by money.  I trust God will provide for me when I need it, as he has helped me out before, but God also wants me to use common sense when making decisions about money in my life.  And from my past experiences living with a stranger, or even your best friend is not neccesarily a good financial move.

My comment about your view of money was a from the reasons you gave.  5 out of the 8 reasons you gave were related to money.  I am sorry if you take offense to that, but they were your reasons.  You say you trust God to provide for you when you need it, you need it.  You need to get out of your current situation and you need to trust God to help you get out.  But that doesn't mean that the answer will pop up infront of you, you may have to pray and seek the answer.  In another post I asked you this question and never saw the answer, do you go to church?  If you do, don't you think that the church and members there of would help you get out of your situation?  I know mine would.  I would even go so far as offering free room for a time for one seeking to be pure before God.  Do you go to a church?  Have you ever asked for help?  If you did I would be very surprised if they brushed off someone who was sincere in getting out of the situation that you are in.

So, please don't assume that you know me, or all of my circumstances.  And don't be telling me to stop posting my opinion, I am allowed to offer advice as I see fit.

I never told you to stop posting, and we don't want you to stop posting.  What I did say is that I did not understand why you were continuing to post the same thing.

As I mentioned above I will post a Biblical proofs for you, but consider this.  If what you are doing is fine, then why do you think that there is so much oposition to what you are doing?  Why has there been so much oposition to what you are doing from the church?  Are we all mislead?  Is the church mislead?  Are they just trivial standards and rules that we have made up?  Or are there some reasons behind it?  Read the next post for more details.
 
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OracleX

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Here are the questions I asked you in another post that you never answered.

When you say that you have no other possible place to go, you short change God. If you really wanted to change things and trusted in God to help you, don't you think He would provide for you? I am sure it is not your intention, but you talk as if God is not big enough to help you.

As few other comments:





Are you attending a church? If not why?

Do you have anyone who you are accountable to? If not why?

Do you read you Bible everyday and pray everyday?

Is your boy friend a born again Christian?

Does your boy friend read and pray everyday?



It basically comes down to this. Who are you going to serve? God or yourself. If you are going to choose God then choose Him completely. We are to give everything to God, not just the stuff that we want. Living completely for Christ is not easy and can be full of trials. But this life is so short, look to eternity and see where you will be if you follow Chirst. If you choose yourself then ... what you do should not bother you.

And here is the proof you say has never been given.

First lets get the definitions out of the way.

Main Entry: for·ni·ca·tion
Date: 14th century
: consensual sexual intercourse between two persons not married to each other -- compare ADULTERY

Main Entry: adul·tery
Date: 15th century
: voluntary sexual intercourse between a married man and someone other than his wife or between a married woman and someone other than her husband; also : an act of adultery

Main Entry: cov·e·nant
Date: 14th century
1 : a usually formal, solemn, and binding agreement
2 b : a written agreement or promise usually under seal between two or more parties especially for the performance of some action b : the common-law action to recover damages for breach of such a contract

Now that you understand that fornication is between two persons not married and that adultery is also done with someone that you are not married to. Here are some scriptures that are very clear that these are not good things and are sin and despised by God.

Matthew 15:18-20
But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, slanders. These are the things which defile the man; but to eat with unwashed hands does not defile the man."

Exodus 20:14 & Deuteronomy 5:18
"You shall not commit adultery."

Proverbs 6:32
"The one who commits adultery with a woman is lacking sense; He who would destroy himself does it."

Hosea 4:1,2
"Listen to the word of the LORD, O sons of Israel, For the LORD has a case against the inhabitants of the land, Because there is no faithfulness or kindness Or knowledge of God in the land. There is swearing, deception, murder, stealing and adultery. They employ violence, so that bloodshed follows bloodshed."

Matthew 5:28
"but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart."

1 Corinthians 7:9
"But if they do not have self-control, let them marry; for it is better to marry than to burn with passion."

We could go on an on with more verses but I think that this is clear enough. Fornication is sin. Fornication is sexual relations with someone outside of marriage. Adultery is sin. Lusting for anyone outside of marriage is sin. There is also the story of Jesus with the woman at the well in John 4.

John 4:17,18 “The woman answered and said, "I have no husband." Jesus said to her, "You have correctly said, 'I have no husband'; for you have had five husbands, and the one whom you now have is not your husband; this you have said truly."

Jesus says very clearly here that the person that she is living with is not her husband. She is living with him and that does not constitute a marriage.

As far as marriage goes, the Bible is not very clear or specific on what acts need to be done to be married. However, just as the Bible does not say ‘though shalt not listen to rock music,’ you can gather by looking at scripture and the character of God that it is not right. Marriage is the same. There are many verses that speak of marriage but do not speak to that acts that made the two married. But again, taking scripture as a whole and the character of God, we can come to some conclusions about marriage.

Weddings are public events
The Bible talks of weddings and how it was public event where people are invited to witness the covenant between the two getting married.


Matthew 22:1-13 is a parable that Jesus tells of a wedding. People are invited, it is an event with many witnesses.

John 2:1-12 Jesus is at a wedding because He was invited to it along with many others.

Ruth 4:10 Ruth is purchased and is taken as the wife as Boaz in with presence of many witnesses.


There are other passages as well but as you can see, weddings we events that people were invited to and were celebrated things. The taking of a wife was something that there were witnesses to. There are verses that talk of weddings being public events where witnesses gather together. What I was not able to find was verses that said that weddings were secret or hidden or that they just happened in peoples heart. There are passages that don’t give detail as to what happened but the ones that do, they state a public event and witnesses.

Another way to look at this is that in the Bible marriage was binding. A married man or woman just couldn’t walk away from a marriage. They were binded by the covenant that they made when they got married. Here is an example of where one is bond to the covenant of marriage.
Malachi 2:14 “Yet you say, 'For what reason?' Because the LORD has been a witness between you and the wife of your youth, against whom you have dealt treacherously, though she is your companion and your wife by covenant.”
Here it talks not about people being witness but God. It also says that there is a covenant between a husband and a wife. Going back to the definition of covenant it is a binding agreement. Also Deuteronomy 24:1,3 talks about a certificate of divorce. Why would you need a certificate of it was never a binding agreement in the first place? Matthew 5:21 states that if anyone sends away his wife that they must send them with a certificate of divorce. Again why bother if there was not a binding agreement? Why all the paperwork? Note that it is a piece of paper, a certificate. It is officially dissolving the marriage agreements between two people. If there is a certificate of divorce that makes the dissolving of a marriage official, wouldn’t it make sense that there is a certificate or a piece of paper making it official between them in the first place? If you are just living with someone, do you have this certificate? If something were to happen and you walked away, would you have a divorce certificate. No, because you we never married in the first place.

If you add it all up you get that marriage is a binding agreement that is witnessed by others and God that has a paper trail. We also see that in most of the references that it is a public event where people are invited and it is a ‘feast.’ So living together before marriage and having sex and loving each other with all your heart does not make you married. And since you are not married then what you are doing is fornication and adultery which is sinning against God.
 
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OracleX

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Just a note: In one of your posts you said
Many of you say that I am in the wrong, but in the 70 some posts I have read here I've seen only a couple of arguments to back it up. The bible is very vague on this point, I don't know if I'm in the wrong or not, but I hope God will forgive me if I am. No one is perfect, and especially not when it comes to issues that are hard to interpret in the bible (i.e. homosexuality, birth control, ect.) I hope that God would forgive any of us who make a mistake in intepreting his word, I am sure it has been done by others before us.

Please show how scripture has been interpreted wrong above. No body is perfect, but the Word of God is.
 
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hotknikkels

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JillLars - We are not here to condemn you or anything like that - we are just here to firstly give you our opinions and then back that up by what the Bible says. We hope that we are helpful and we are here to help you. I personally pray that you see our side of things and hope that we can have a positive affect on your life and your boyfriend's life.
 
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Memory's Flame

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I've been reading and saw maybe one or two people who agree with me...

I Live with my boyfriend. We aren't married, or even engaged. We love each other VERY much and plan to get married some day, but don't have money for the wedding we want.

We've been dating for six and a half years, and yes we have sex. Although I am just now looking for my path and studying Christianity... but I feel that there is nothing wrong with my spot in life. My parents and friends and pastor at my moms church all know about my living situation, and they all have "approved" to the best they can. They respect me for doing what I think is right for me...

Now if God won't accept me for this, then I suppose I don't need God because this is me and he needs to accept me for me!
 
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OracleX

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Jacque,
I am glad that you are looking for you way and are studying Christianity. Not knowing the way, why would you feel that there is anything wrong. Even as Christians we do things and feel fine about them, until we realize that they go against God. This is part of life and part of being a Christian.

I am sure that as you discover God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit that there will be things in your life that no longer will be right as you become aware of truth. As Christians, we support and help those along who are searching for God and are seeking to have a relationship with him.

As for God? He will accept you as long as you accept His free gift of salvation. When you seek out God, remember that He is seeking out you, He loves you and wants to have a relationship with you. God will accept you, forgive you, but don't expect to become a Christian and have a relationship with God and it not change you.

Please remember that this post is answering a Christian, someone who is a servant of God and is bond to Gods commandments. That is why the conversation is stiff at times, because it is between a brother and sister. This thread is not about acceptance but about someone in the family asking questions and finding it difficult to deal with the answers.

Welcome to CF Jacque. I will remember you in prayer.
God Bless.
 
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hotknikkels

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JacqueB - I feel what you are saying because I have done things before and even as a Christian which I didn't realise it was wrong, until I was told and looked it up myself and prayed about it.

I hope and pray that God will reveal himself to you and I just wanna say that you are very welcome here and we value your opinion
 
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