Living according to Christ's "world view."

[Monna]

In another thread...
DamianWarS said: ↑
I want him [my son] to be impacted not by my world view or by a church's world view but instead by Christ's world view.

In the sciptures the word "world" means different things in different contexts. "God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son;" "they are in the world, but they are not of the world" "I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world." "Do not conform to the pattern of this world" "for Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thessalonica" "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them."

And today the phrase "world view" has it's own meaning. In my experience of hearing it used it does not always refer to moral or even ethical values, but may include political viewpoints, and the national order within the global context. As a person who has worked in many different countries and cultures I find that my view of "the world" is very different from those of a person who has lived in one community their whole life, and never travelled or been particularly interested in what happens in Tadjikistan, Bhutan, Paraguay, East Timor or Rhode Island.

When I read DamianWarS' wish, I thought I understood what he meant by the term. But when I saw his wish compared Christ's world view to his own and to the church's I realised that there is more to this that we might think. If I am a believer I have confessed that I don't see things as Christ did, but I wish to be transformed into his way of thinking and seeing.

What very specifically do you think was "Christ's world view?" Why would the Church's world view be any different? Do we/you have any examples of people today who truly live in accordance with Christ's world view? Is it something you aspire to, as a believer, and if so what does it mean to you in practice? If you were in a discussion on world views with a wide assortment of people, how would you describe Christ's world view (specifically without mentioning Christ, i.e saying "following Christ" doesn't count - it means nothing specific in this context)?

As this is a forum for discipleship, I fully accept that as we grow in our relationship with the Lord, our understanding of this may change. So I am very interested to know if you have thought of your spiritual growth in these terms, and if so, how your understanding of Christ's world view has changed through time. Would focusing on "letting my candle shine in my small corner" be sufficient, or should I be disciplining myself to pay attention to what is happening in foreign countries, and understanding world events from a spiritual standpoint? How would I do that?

 

[“Paisios”]

What very specifically do you think was "Christ's world view?" Why would the Church's world view be any different? Do we/you have any examples of people today who truly live in accordance with Christ's world view? Is it something you aspire to, as a believer, and if so what does it mean to you in practice? If you were in a discussion on world views with a wide assortment of people, how would you describe Christ's world view (specifically without mentioning Christ, i.e saying "following Christ" doesn't count - it means nothing specific in this context)?

John 13:35 "By this all will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another".

I think the Church's view is different because it is made up of people, who because of our sinful nature, put our own self ahead of of selflessness, trying to interpret things from our own perspectives (a form of pride) rather than the humility shown by Christ. Some people come closer to living out that viewpoint than others. I fear that I am not very close, but I spire to be better. We should as Christians strive to imitate Christ as fully as we can and submit to the Holy Spirit's leading. In a gathering, I would quote John 13:35, Matthew 22:36-40. That seems to sum up Christ's views and is demonstrated throughout by the Gospels by His actions.

 

[Episaw]

What very specifically do you think was "Christ's world view?" Why would the Church's world view be any different? Do we/you have any examples of people today who truly live in accordance with Christ's world view? Is it something you aspire to, as a believer, and if so what does it mean to you in practice? If you were in a discussion on world views with a wide assortment of people, how would you describe Christ's world view (specifically without mentioning Christ, i.e saying "following Christ" doesn't count - it means nothing specific in this context)?

I believe that Jesus worldview was to do the will of his father.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Would focusing on "letting my candle shine in my small corner" be sufficient, or should I be disciplining myself to pay attention to what is happening in foreign countries, and understanding world events from a spiritual standpoint? How would I do that?

This bothers me as well; that there are so many believers in other countries that are living and dying for their faith every day and yet so little is said about them in our pulpits, as if their lives didn't matter at all; as if they weren't even regarded as Christians.

If I were discussing Christ with a wide variety of people, I would first educate myself to the very best of my ability in their culture, mindsets, viewpoints and religious beliefs. Then I would pick out that which is good and pure and honor it, and introduce Christ as an improvement on the good they already know and understand in their culture and belief systems.

This seems to me like a much more loving and respectful way of addressing others than simply saying, "My way is right. Your way is wrong."

 

[Monna]

I believe that Jesus worldview was to do the will of his father.

Thanks for reading and responding...but...
I'm not sure I understand. Do you think he did not see things for himself? Or that he was closer to being a "robot" only doing what he was told? Does this latter idea suggest that his Father was the ultimate 'micro-manager?' If on the other hand you mean that Jesus took the world view of his Father, just what was this world view? How exactly should this affect the way I live? Please be a specific and concrete as you can, as the ultimate implication is for my daily life, my behaviour (and presumably for yours too).

 

[Monna]

This bothers me as well; that there are so many believers in other countries that are living and dying for their faith every day and yet so little is said about them in our pulpits, as if their lives didn't matter at all; as if they weren't even regarded as Christians.

Thanks for not hiding your thoughts!
Sometimes it does seem like we as the body of Christ do suffer from a kind of spiritual Hanson's disease (formerly called leprosy) which has killed the nerve cells connecting us with parts of the body that are far away. What can we do about this? Jesus said "lift up your eyes..." and he said "Go into all the world and preach the gospel..." What's happened to so many of us?

 

[Ken Rank]

In another thread...
DamianWarS said: ↑
I want him [my son] to be impacted not by my world view or by a church's world view but instead by Christ's world view.

In the sciptures the word "world" means different things in different contexts. "God so loved the world that He gave his only begotten son;" "they are in the world, but they are not of the world" "I will utter things hidden since the creation of the world." "Do not conform to the pattern of this world" "for Demas, because he loved this world, has deserted me and has gone to Thessalonica" "Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them."

And today the phrase "world view" has it's own meaning. In my experience of hearing it used it does not always refer to moral or even ethical values, but may include political viewpoints, and the national order within the global context. As a person who has worked in many different countries and cultures I find that my view of "the world" is very different from those of a person who has lived in one community their whole life, and never travelled or been particularly interested in what happens in Tadjikistan, Bhutan, Paraguay, East Timor or Rhode Island.

When I read DamianWarS' wish, I thought I understood what he meant by the term. But when I saw his wish compared Christ's world view to his own and to the church's I realised that there is more to this that we might think. If I am a believer I have confessed that I don't see things as Christ did, but I wish to be transformed into his way of thinking and seeing.

What very specifically do you think was "Christ's world view?" Why would the Church's world view be any different? Do we/you have any examples of people today who truly live in accordance with Christ's world view? Is it something you aspire to, as a believer, and if so what does it mean to you in practice? If you were in a discussion on world views with a wide assortment of people, how would you describe Christ's world view (specifically without mentioning Christ, i.e saying "following Christ" doesn't count - it means nothing specific in this context)?

As this is a forum for discipleship, I fully accept that as we grow in our relationship with the Lord, our understanding of this may change. So I am very interested to know if you have thought of your spiritual growth in these terms, and if so, how your understanding of Christ's world view has changed through time. Would focusing on "letting my candle shine in my small corner" be sufficient, or should I be disciplining myself to pay attention to what is happening in foreign countries, and understanding world events from a spiritual standpoint? How would I do that?

My take of "world view" in this context would be Christ's paradigm... his perspective... his bias... the lens through which he sees all that is around him. It will be a righteous lens, a merciful lens, a lens that will never cease to stand in harmony with the character traits of God (i.e. love, peace, joy, patience, long suffering, kindness, meekness and self control). And thus our goal should be to use that same lens as we look at the the world and the people around us.

 

[Hidden In Him]

Thanks for not hiding your thoughts!
Sometimes it does seem like we as the body of Christ do suffer from a kind of spiritual Hanson's disease (formerly called leprosy) which has killed the nerve cells connecting us with parts of the body that are far away. What can we do about this? Jesus said "lift up your eyes..." and he said "Go into all the world and preach the gospel..." What's happened to so many of us?

Well, as far as each of us personally goes, I think it helps to get our heads out of our own little world and start getting more educated in world affairs, especially with regard to how they effect Christians in other countries. Subscribing to Voice of the Martyrs is a start.

But I think what happened is a type of dumbing down in our culture. When it comes to Americans, we can be very generous and giving to the less fortunate. But many are simultaneously out of touch with the rest of the world, and when it comes to Christians this is especially tragic, since as you stated we are supposed to be the body of Christ and demonstrate to the world the unity, love and concern for one another that comes from having the same Spirit dwelling within all of us. That, too, is a teaching that seems to have been devalued in the American pulpit, maybe because many are more interested in preaching to the lifestyle of the typical American than getting the typical American to look outside of him or herself.

 

[Monna]

My take of "world view" in this context would be Christ's paradigm... his perspective... his bias... the lens through which he sees all that is around him. It will be a righteous lens, a merciful lens, a lens that will never cease to stand in harmony with the character traits of God (i.e. love, peace, joy, patience, long suffering, kindness, meekness and self control). And thus our goal should be to use that same lens as we look at the the world and the people around us.

Thanks Ken, I really like the way you put it!
Jesus was both gracious and truthful. He treated high and low with human respect, but was very straight in condemning the injustices and the hypocrisies he saw being perpretuated around him. He could eat at a pharisee's table as easily as at a tax-collectors. But he could defend the honour of the woman who washed his feet at the pharisee's home - the pharisee that looked down on her but had not treated Jesus to the accepted courtesy one gives to a guest.

One of my greatest difficulties is separating in my mind the sinner from the sin. Jesus loves the sinner, while condemning the sin. I would love to learn to be able to combine grace and truth in the same way as he did!

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

Well, as far as each of us personally goes, I think it helps to get our heads out of our own little world and start getting more educated in world affairs, especially with regard to how they effect Christians in other countries. Subscribing to Voice of the Martyrs is a start.

But I think what happened is a type of dumbing down in our culture. When it comes to Americans, we can be very generous and giving to the less fortunate. But many are simultaneously out of touch with the rest of the world, and when it comes to Christians this is especially tragic, since as you stated we are supposed to be the body of Christ and demonstrate to the world the unity, love and concern for one another that comes from having the same Spirit dwelling within all of us. That, too, is a teaching that seems to have been devalued in the American pulpit, maybe because many are more interested in preaching to the lifestyle of the typical American than getting the typical American to look outside of him or herself.

The dumbing down seems to come from where people are directed to place their tythes imo. Everyone of us is personally responsible for what we are supporting because we will be tied to the rewards thereof. If what we're supporting is used dishonestly maybe we should be smart enough to see that. Dumbing down is the ooxymoron of wising up. Churches that support missionaries just seem to be a happier place for all from what I have seen.

 

[Ken Rank]

One of my greatest difficulties is separating in my mind the sinner from the sin. Jesus loves the sinner, while condemning the sin. I would love to learn to be able to combine grace and truth in the same way as he did!

The easiest way is to make it personal. By that I mean consider yourself. Either A. you were raised a Christian but at SOME POINT had to stray to some degree or B. you weren't raised a Christian and came into the faith later. In either case, there was a time in your life when you were the sinner we are talking about and yet God extended a hand of mercy to you WHILE you were still in that state. That lens.. that world view (if you will) is the one we really need to embrace. If we are going to err, I would far prefer to err on the side of grace rather than on the side of harsh judgement. Consider Matthew 7:2

 

[Hidden In Him]

Everyone of us is personally responsible for what we are supporting because we will be tied to the rewards thereof. If what we're supporting is used dishonestly maybe we should be smart enough to see that.

Yes, ma'am. Certainly those whose motivations are pure will have that taken under consideration by the Lord, but we are supposed to be as wise as serpents. And unfortunately there are some serpents in the pulpit these days. Those who are so far away from Him that they can't see such things at all will certainly not be receiving any reward for their "giving" when it went towards encouraging ministers to entertain fleshly desires.

 

[Dave-W]

A "worldview" is a basic set of beliefs and assumptions about life and how the world around us works. That said, I am not sure our Lord could actually have a worldview; since HE made the world, He did not need to "believe" or "assume" anything.

So what we need to get to is a BIBLICAL worldview. I have read 2 books that attack that subject from different angles and both are good. The first one is Dan Juster ThD "The Biblical Worldview: An Apologetic." It is a technical and difficult read but does some amazing groundwork in this endeavor.

https://www.amazon.com/Biblical-World-View-Apologetic/dp/1573090247

The second is by Brad Long and Doug McMurry called "Collapse of the Brass Heaven."

https://www.amazon.com/Collapse-Bra...&sr=1-2&keywords=collapse+of+the+brass+heaven

 

[Monna]

A "worldview" is a basic set of beliefs and assumptions about life and how the world around us works.

So what we need to get to is a BIBLICAL worldview.

Thanks Dave for the definition, and the addition of the "Biblical worldview." Thanks also for the book tips!

 

[Episaw]

Thanks for reading and responding...but...
I'm not sure I understand. Do you think he did not see things for himself? Or that he was closer to being a "robot" only doing what he was told? Does this latter idea suggest that his Father was the ultimate 'micro-manager?' If on the other hand you mean that Jesus took the world view of his Father, just what was this world view? How exactly should this affect the way I live? Please be a specific and concrete as you can, as the ultimate implication is for my daily life, my behaviour (and presumably for yours too).

A good question. I am drawn to the verse in John 5:30 that explains Jesus relationship with his Father.....

I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father who has sent me.

I read this as meaning that he did not act unilaterally. He acted in unison with his Father who instructed him in righteousness.

As he said, "As I hear, I judge." Who did he hear? Of course, it was his Father and for that reason, his judgments were just.

And the key there is the key for us, 'I seek not my own will, but the will of my Father..."

Jesus came to show us the Father. He came to show us the outworking of his Fathers kingdom. In other words, he was an ambassador for his Father.

I have a prophetic ministry and recently I told our church that the Father was grieved because we were not listening to his Word, we were following our own word (nothing unusual for the church).

Of course, they said they couldn't make the necessary changes until they had buried their cousin; had gone home to wash the dishes; had milked the cows; got the car serviced and so on and so on.

When Jesus had completed his mission on earth, he went back to the Father who sent the Holy Spirit to enable us to continue that mission, which was to do the will of the Father.

Doing anything but the will of the Father is flogging a dead horse. God is not interested in what we want to do. He has it all worked out so he wants us to listen and then do what he tells us.

Question. Why do you think that in most churches the prayer meeting is the least attended?

Answer. Because it is where we are most likely as a church to hear what God is saying so it is obviously the one that Satan wants you to miss.

Every time we miss a prayer meeting without good reason we are playing into Satan's hands. If we are not prepared to listen God is not going to talk to us so we are left to our own devices.

I have discovered that churches place more value in a person attending communion services to be allowed to become members than they do in attending prayer meetings. I have seen conditions for membership say that you have to attend xyz number of communion services a month, but I have NEVER seen one that says you have to attend xyz number of prayer meetings a month.

What that means is that the church does not place much value in listening to God.

Now, what was God's world view? Can I suggest that it is "For God so loved the world...."

And why not seeing as he created it and pronounced it as good when he did. Therefore he would view the world as something that he loved.

Do we have a worldview that the world is something that is to be loved and as a result, we become ambassadors for the kingdom just as Jesus was?

We know that at the moment Satan rules but he is an invader who does not rightfully own the world and the fact is that he was defeated at calvary (Colossians 2).

So our world view is that the Father owns the world and our job as his ambassadors is to get rid of the invading army (Put on the whole armor of God).

How do we do this? There are two ways. One is we preach the gospel and two we expel demons.

How do we do this? By listening to the Father and getting his instructions.

Any church would be much more effective if they abandoned all their programs and spent each day praying together. We could get rid of all the expensive building and their costly up keep and meet in homes to pray and maybe once a month rent a public building to all come together for a day to pray, praise and fellowship together.

On a practical note, I have read of numerous occasions where churches have listened and have followed the Father's instructions to go and pray in a particular area of town because of the amount of crime. They have done prayer walks around the area on a weekly basis. The end result was that crime was virtually obliterated and peace once again came to the neighbourhood.

Which ony goes to show that prayer does CHANGE things.

 

[Monna]

what was God's world view? Can I suggest that it is "For God so loved the world...."

Yes, I'm sure this is at the heart of it. Everything that God does he does in love. When many people look around at things that are happening in different places, it is difficult for them to see God acting in love. Maybe we don't really understand the full nature of that love. We know that God also sees the enormous wickedness in the world. What he sees and that we miss are the many specific, underlying, causes and driving forces of that evil. And as you say, we will not see if we do not listen.

What you say about prayer and prayer meetings in our churches resonates very strongly with me. This weekend the church I attend is going on a retreat and unfortunately I will not be there. The theme is building community in the church. You spur me to send a note to someone attending, that if the church really wants community, then it must prioritise prayer, specifically praying together.

Thank you Episaw.