Liturgy the same in all countries? No it turns out...

[Mountainmike]

I am moving to Portugal not far from Fatima.

I've been trying to learn the Portuguese mass.
I had always assumed that our liturgy was all the same, just retranslated.

Turns out it is not so.
A simple example.
Priest says " the lord be with you"
Old mass
We said " and also with you"
Last update 5? 10 ? Years ago:
We now say " and with your spirit" , similar to the old Latin.
( which I recollect is very early church, I assumed going back was the point of changing)

Yet In the Portuguese mass
Priest says " the lord be with you"
Literal translation of reply " he is in the middle of us"
( true, biblical, but different )
There are many more...
I wonder why the differences?

 

[archer75]

Sounds like a question for a liturgiologist.

 

[anna ~ grace]

Woah, are you seriously moving to Portugal?! That is great!

 

[Monk Brendan]

I am moving to Portugal not far from Fatima.

I've been trying to learn the Portuguese mass.
I had always assumed that our liturgy was all the same, just retranslated.

Turns out it is not so.
A simple example.
Priest says " the lord be with you"
Old mass
We said " and also with you"
Last update 5? 10 ? Years ago:
We now say " and with your spirit" , similar to the old Latin.
( which I recollect is very early church, I assumed going back was the point of changing)

Yet In the Portuguese mass
Priest says " the lord be with you"
Literal translation of reply " he is in the middle of us"
( true, biblical, but different )
There are many more...
I wonder why the differences?

The Divine Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil, St. James, and the Presanctified liturgy are nothing like anything in the west.

 

[zippy2006]

I am moving to Portugal not far from Fatima.

I've been trying to learn the Portuguese mass.
I had always assumed that our liturgy was all the same, just retranslated.

Turns out it is not so.
A simple example.
Priest says " the lord be with you"
Old mass
We said " and also with you"
Last update 5? 10 ? Years ago:
We now say " and with your spirit" , similar to the old Latin.
( which I recollect is very early church, I assumed going back was the point of changing)

Yet In the Portuguese mass
Priest says " the lord be with you"
Literal translation of reply " he is in the middle of us"
( true, biblical, but different )
There are many more...
I wonder why the differences?

The various language groups are simply translating the Roman Rite Latin into their respective languages. The change to the English Mass parts a few years ago had to do with the translation, not the Latin. The Latin stayed exactly the same. Some language groups lean more towards dynamic equivalence and some lean towards essentially literal when deciding upon a translation. The English world moved towards the latter a few years ago. Apparently the Portuguese translation is closer to the former.

(As Monk Brendan pointed out, the Roman Rite is not the exclusive Rite of the Church, but Portugal does have it.)

 

[Tomm]

I am moving to Portugal not far from Fatima.

That's fantastic, you're so blessed.
Portuguese is radically different from English, a long exciting journey is ahead of you (language learning).

 

[Mountainmike]

Woah, are you seriously moving to Portugal?! That is great!

Absolutely - on Monday - only a winter home for now - but easy journey to the shrine.

 

[Mountainmike]

The Divine Liturgies of St. John Chrysostom, St. Basil, St. James, and the Presanctified liturgy are nothing like anything in the west.

True, and I love eastern liturgy. I just assumed that in Latin rite it was essentially just retranslated allowing for idiom.

 

[Mountainmike]

The various language groups are simply translating the Roman Rite Latin into their respective languages. The change to the English Mass parts a few years ago had to do with the translation, not the Latin. The Latin stayed exactly the same. Some language groups lean more towards dynamic equivalence and some lean towards essentially literal when deciding upon a translation. The English world moved towards the latter a few years ago. Apparently the Portuguese translation is closer to the former.

(As Monk Brendan pointed out, the Roman Rite is not the exclusive Rite of the Church, but Portugal does have it.)

Thanks. Interesting.

 

[Mountainmike]

That's fantastic, you're so blessed.
Portuguese is radically different from English, a long exciting journey is ahead of you (language and living).

Have you spent time there?