Deegie

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Well, I think you are selling Lent short with that model, and also misinterpreting a minor variance in liturgical color as a redefinition of one of the four great fasts of the ancient church (the others being the Apostles and Dormition fasts in the summer) into something it is not. Every Fast ends in a Feast. Even in the Assyrian and Oriental Orthodox tradition, the dreaded prelenten fast of the Rogation of the Ninevites, which involves a three day total fast, ends in a feast.

Our observance of Advent (in most corners of TEC with which I'm familiar) was redefined in a previous generation. I just changed the color to keep up with our current understanding of it. I'm not sure if it was simply giving in to the cultural understanding, but Advent stopped being a fast for us quite some time ago.

Can you please say more about how I'm selling Lent short? Do you mean by having Laetare Sunday as a break from the somber nature of the rest of the season?
 
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Mary of Bethany

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Our Orthodox parish generally sees a small dip in the summer - because that’s when families are more likely to take vacations. By late August, attendance is usually back to normal because school is back in session.

We are what I suppose is considered a mid-size parish (getting close to 200 in attendance) and blessed with a full-time priest. We have Divine Liturgy very early on Tuesday mornings, Daily Vespers on Wednesday evening, Divine Liturgy mid-morning on Thursdays, Great Vespers on Saturday evenings, and of course, Divine Liturgy on Sunday mornings. On the eve of Great Feasts (like Transfiguration this week) we have a Festal Vigil (Great Vespers and Matins) on the evening before, and the Festal Divine Liturgy the morning of the Feast, which would replace the usual Wednesday/Thursday schedule.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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Our observance of Advent (in most corners of TEC with which I'm familiar) was redefined in a previous generation. I just changed the color to keep up with our current understanding of it. I'm not sure if it was simply giving in to the cultural understanding, but Advent stopped being a fast for us quite some time ago.

Can you please say more about how I'm selling Lent short? Do you mean by having Laetare Sunday as a break from the somber nature of the rest of the season?
Well, we still have the pink candle. We do, however, still dress the chapel altar in purple for Advent. I also personally wish we had retained the 1 year lectionary; as I have stated before; when Rome fartz the rest of Christiandom seems to crap it's pants. Our traditional service is an adaptation of the the Pre-Trent Mass that Luther originally intended to be celebrated in Latin; German came later; Vatican II about 450 years later than that.
 
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The Liturgist

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Our observance of Advent (in most corners of TEC with which I'm familiar) was redefined in a previous generation. I just changed the color to keep up with our current understanding of it. I'm not sure if it was simply giving in to the cultural understanding, but Advent stopped being a fast for us quite some time ago.

Can you please say more about how I'm selling Lent short? Do you mean by having Laetare Sunday as a break from the somber nature of the rest of the season?

Oh no, the rose colored vestments and paraments on the 3rd Sunday of Advent and the 4th Sunday of Lent is imperative and underobserved as it is in the Western liturgical tradition (outside of the Mozarabic and Ambrosian Rites, where Advent lasts six sundays, as in the East, and different traditions attach themselves to these fasts).

Rather, if Lent is not of a penitential character, it devalues Christmas, or “the Winter Pascha” as the Russians call it. Each of the four ancient feasts of the church is preceded in tradition by a fast from certain kinds of meat for the able-bodied, those being the Nativity, Pascha or Easter as we call it in the West, the Holy Apostles (St. Peter and Paul) and the Dormition (the Feast of Mary / Assumption) and this model is the commonality that links all of the liturgical calendars together. If you look at a Coptic Calendar, or an Eastern Orthodox Calendar, or a Roman calendar, you will see this pattern to a lesser or greater extent. In some cases, for example, the Roman Rite and the Protestant churches, the Summer Fasts were deleted, but the Rogation Days complicate this and would result in an excess of fasting in the summer if the Apostles and Dormition fasts were included in their entirety (of course, the three day fasts that precede them in the West Syriac Rite are another story, but the West Syriac Rite also has the Rogation of the Ninevites, which is of peculiar importance to the Syriac Rites, since the historic homeland of Syriac Christianity is the Plains of Nineveh, so it makes sense “the fast of Jonah” continue for them, but not us.

A temptation exists however to expound upon that principle and dismiss all liturgical praxis outside our own rites as a curiosity having no impact on us, and nothing to teach us about hidden meanings in our own right, and feasts and fasts the true nature of which has been obscured by time, more time, and incompetence of the Pope, the Archbishop of Canterbury, and various Lutheran consistories in the 16th - early 19th centuries and the later 20th century, and also ignorance of the laity and clergy, in every right, so that I fear the only actually reliable way of evaluating a liturgical rite and understanding its traditions is through the comparative method.

It is, for example, through comparative liturgics we know the use of red vestments during the second half of the Paschal liturgy (the white goes off and the red goes on at 1 AM approximately), in the Moscow Patriarchate, is probably an innovation, since the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia, and the other Orthodox Churches do not do that but wear white vestments throughout the service.
 
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The Liturgist

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Our Orthodox parish generally sees a small dip in the summer - because that’s when families are more likely to take vacations. By late August, attendance is usually back to normal because school is back in session.

We are what I suppose is considered a mid-size parish (getting close to 200 in attendance) and blessed with a full-time priest. We have Divine Liturgy very early on Tuesday mornings, Daily Vespers on Wednesday evening, Divine Liturgy mid-morning on Thursdays, Great Vespers on Saturday evenings, and of course, Divine Liturgy on Sunday mornings. On the eve of Great Feasts (like Transfiguration this week) we have a Festal Vigil (Great Vespers and Matins) on the evening before, and the Festal Divine Liturgy the morning of the Feast, which would replace the usual Wednesday/Thursday schedule.

This is usually what I see in EO attendance in the summer.
 
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The Liturgist

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Well, we still have the pink candle. We do, however, still dress the chapel altar in purple for Advent. I also personally wish we had retained the 1 year lectionary; as I have stated before; when Rome fartz the rest of Christiandom seems to crap it's pants. Our traditional service is an adaptation of the the Pre-Trent Mass that Luther originally intended to be celebrated in Latin; German came later; Vatican II about 450 years later than that.

I love the way you express things. :D
 
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The Liturgist

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So, on the subject of liturgical beauty, I realized we inadvertently neglected to talk about the service books, hymnals and prayer books themselves. Having a fairly large library, I have several Protestant and Eastern Orthodox specimens which I find exquisitely beautiful, and which I think I will upload photos of. However, in the interim, take a look at this stunningly beautiful 1662 BCP:

The Book of common prayer, and administration of the sacraments, & other rites & ceremonies of the church, according to the use of the Church of England; together with the Psalter or Psalms of David, pointed as they are to be sung or said in churches; & the form & manner of making, ordaining and consecrating of bishops, priests, and deacons : Church of England. Book of common prayer : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive

Also, here are images and facismiles of the 1892 and 1928 Standard Books, a special subscription only edition of the American Protestant Episcopal Book of Common Prayer, (limited to 500 copies, of which a few were printed on Vellum, mainly for internal archival purposes; these, and copies of both the plain and decorated 1892 Standard Book, all designed by D.B. Updike, are priceless* - I have tried unsuccessfully to acquire one for years, and I have not even seen in any library catalog a copy of the decorated edition of the 1892 book in a library collection, but I know JP Morgan had one, so I am sure they are still extant in a vault), considered by many graphics designers to represent the apex of American ecclesiastical typography:

The 1892 Book of Common Prayer: The Standard Book
The 1928 Book of Common Prayer: the Standard Book

Lastly, I really really wish the Episcopal Church had printed this proposed Standard Edition of the 1979 Book of Common Prayer:

The Book of Common Prayer: The Standard of 1979

@Shane R - would you have any idea why the ACNA did not do a Standard Book edition of the 2019 BCP or release it into the Public Domain, as had been the Episcopal Practice? Also, do we have any knowledgeable ACNA clergy or laity you or @PloverWing or other Anglican members might know from Scripture, Tradition, Reason? Perhaps someone who might enjoy this or other threads in Traditional Theology?

Lastly, while there are some gorgeous Roman Catholic hand missals, breviaries altar books, graduales, and prayer books, unfortunately, I don’t seem to have any! I would particularly like a St. Edmund Campion missal. I do have scans of the late 1950s Dominican Breviary in my digital collection, and it was certainly a beautiful book, and I have a copy of the Liturgy of the Hours, which is decent.
 
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Shane R

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There are only a couple of ACNA people who regularly post at this site.

I also can't answer why they haven't produced a Standard Book. Their liturgical culture is interesting though. You can find everything from a charismatic contemporary service with band and a short Lord's Supper distribution at the end to incense, lace cottas, and Missals. Things that other churches could shrug about become controversial in ACNA, such as the recent publication of an Altar Service Book for their Holy Communion rites. Or the Book of Common Praise being printed as Magnify the Lord to appease petty leadership in certain dioceses.
 
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Philip_B

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Downloads – Anglican Church in North America

THE BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER (2019) Anglican Church in North America With the exception of the New Coverdale Psalter, the content of the Book of Common Prayer (2019) is not under copyright, and all not-for-profit reproduction of the content by churches and non-profit organizations is permitted.

The New Coverdale Psalter is copyright © 2019 by the Anglican Church in North America, but this is not intended to discourage the use and duplication of the text by churches for purposes of worship.

First Printing, 2019 ISBN 978-0-9979211-6-8 (Pew Edition) ISBN 978-0-9979211-7-5 (Deluxe Leather-bound Edition)

The right to print the Book of Common Prayer (2019) has been granted exclusively to Anglican Liturgy Press, an imprint of Anglican House Media Ministry, Inc. Any for-profit publication requests must be addressed to Anglican House Media Ministry www. anglicanhousemedia.org Quotations of Scripture normally follow The Holy Bible, English Standard Version (ESV®) except for the Psalms, Canticles, and citations marked with the symbol ( T ) which indicates traditional prayer book language. The Holy Bible, English Standard Version® is copyright © 2016 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers, and is used by permission. All rights reserved​
 
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The Liturgist

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Downloads – Anglican Church in North America

THE BOOK OF COMMON PRAYER (2019) Anglican Church in North America With the exception of the New Coverdale Psalter, the content of the Book of Common Prayer (2019) is not under copyright, and all not-for-profit reproduction of the content by churches and non-profit organizations is permitted.

The New Coverdale Psalter is copyright © 2019 by the Anglican Church in North America, but this is not intended to discourage the use and duplication of the text by churches for purposes of worship.

First Printing, 2019 ISBN 978-0-9979211-6-8 (Pew Edition) ISBN 978-0-9979211-7-5 (Deluxe Leather-bound Edition)

The right to print the Book of Common Prayer (2019) has been granted exclusively to Anglican Liturgy Press, an imprint of Anglican House Media Ministry, Inc. Any for-profit publication requests must be addressed to Anglican House Media Ministry www. anglicanhousemedia.org Quotations of Scripture normally follow The Holy Bible, English Standard Version (ESV®) except for the Psalms, Canticles, and citations marked with the symbol ( T ) which indicates traditional prayer book language. The Holy Bible, English Standard Version® is copyright © 2016 by Crossway, a publishing ministry of Good News Publishers, and is used by permission. All rights reserved​

So apparently the liturgical text itself, minus the Scripture Lessons, Canticles and Psalter, is public domain. That’s good. I still wish they had printed from a high end specialist a subscription-only limited Standard Edition with exquisite graphics design...I would have bought one, even though I dislike the 2019 BCP.
 
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The Liturgist

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Some discussion of my eclectic vestment and parament practices, from another thread:

No, we have consecrated Deacons, they can and most do; as Elders, we are laymen and serve as liturgical deacons. We wear black roman style Cassocks, occasionally with Surplice. For Major Feasts and Festivals Pastor would wear a Chasuble and Maniple, we have a Tunicle; not yet put into service, for the Elder. The set we have would do for both "White" and "Red" Festivals.
View attachment 306418 View attachment 306419

Following the Trail of Breadcrumbs for the Upcoming NRSV Revision – Catholic Bible Talk

That’s a beautiful set, I particularly love Roman chasubles, but if your parish would like any additional sets, I would be happy to donate from my collection.

In terms of liturgical color, I have a lot of options, and my own approach, which I do not recommend, by the way, as it is eclectic and would constitute a disruption of LCMS practice, so the following is purely informational, and to give you a sense of the scale of my vestment collection. I like to use red and gold set for Low Sunday, Pentecost and Reformation Sunday, and the feasts of the martyrs and Apostles, or a sarum blue or violet set for Advent, or a blue stole or complete set for the Commemoration of St. Mary and the Annunciation, or a rose set for Guadete and Laetere Sunday (these are not, as one might fear, effeminate in appearance, but on the contrary are extremely beautiful).

I am a traditionalist*, as you know, and so I use a crimson chasuble on Maundy Thursday, which I then replace with a crimson cope for the Tenebrae, and on Good Friday, and weekdays in Lent, including Ash Wednesday, I follow a hybrid Roman-Byzantine practice of a presanctified holy communion service using the very simple, classic text of St. Gregory the Great, which is used in the Eastern Orthodox and Greek Catholic churches on weekdays in Lent, and on Good Friday in the Roman Church until 1955, when Pope Pius XII ruined the whole Paschal Triduum by changing the wording and the vestment color from black to red, and the lectionary reading on Holy Saturday.

Suffice it to say, I use a black chasuble with purple lining for those services, although I have ordered a black Roman chasuble and Ambrosian-type copes in black and murello (a kind of purplish color, used in the Ambrosian Rite on weekends in Lent). I think black is ideal for funerals but unfortunately these days it tends to upset ... some people, so I haven’t tried; I am still working on persuading my flock to not get cremated and of the benefits of an Orthodox style burial using simple, extremely inexpensive wooden caskets. I have convinced a few people to buy some from St. Barbara Monastery, an OCA monastery in California.

*That said, I can be flexible about which tradition to follow. For example, I have West Syriac vestments, one of which is white and with blue trim and one of which is blue with red trim, and both gold brocade decorations depicting grape vines; these can be obtained from India and are incredibly inexpensive, yet of extremely high quality. I like to use these at Christmas. I also have Coptic vestments, which I rarely use in full, mainly for commemorating the feast of St. Mark the Evangelist, however, the Coptic alb is extremely nice and I commonly wear this with other vestments. And I have Byzantine sets. And of course, I only wear chasubles consistently with one of my two missions; with the other I use a stole during the Eucharist and a cassock, surplice and tippet during at other times. And I use this same arrangement for anything that is non-Eucharistic, unless it is extremely formal, like the Tenebrae Service or anything in Lent, and that warrants a cope. Sometimes, following Assyrian practice, I wear a cope and stole but no chasuble during the Eucharist, since a cope is very nearly a Phelonion or Phayno or Gothic Chasuble, and St. Paul asked for his Phelonion to be sent to him in one of his epistles, it is believed to be so as to keep him warm on the impending day of his martyrdom, which is why we wear the Phelonion or Chasuble, or Phayno, as it is called in Aramaic.

In my opinion, green vestments are overused in the Western Rite. In the UMC, between the 1920s and 1980s, red vestments and paraments were used for the first half of ordinary time after Pentecost, and then, halfway to Advent began the wonderful, now suppressed liturgical season of Kingdomtide, and that was when green vestments were used. I follow a similiar pattern, albeit using green vestments as the default in post-Pentecost, and gold vestments as the default in Kingdomtide, to suggest the fall foliage; due to a large number of events where red or blue vestments required, including the feasts of St. Peter and Paul, John the Baptist, the Holy Cross St. Luke, and Reformation Sunday on the red side (and on the blue side we have the Feast of St. Mary, and the Feast of St. Michael). I also use green on Palm Sunday, following Byzantine Rite Orthodox tradition and also an unusual but likable tradition at the parish where I grew up, presumably Byzantine-influenced.
 
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The Liturgist

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I love those vestments though... @MarkRohfrietsch you must be excited to get to wear that beautiful tunicle. You think you might use it on Reformation Sunday, or perhaps wait until Christmas and Epiphany?
 
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Paidiske

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I have to laugh at the idea of being excited to wear a tunicle. The first time I had to wear a dalmatic, I found the whole thing very distressing. Eventually I got used to it, although my preference would probably be to default to an alb and stole for the Eucharist.
 
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The Liturgist

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I have to laugh at the idea of being excited to wear a tunicle. The first time I had to wear a dalmatic, I found the whole thing very distressing. Eventually I got used to it, although my preference would probably be to default to an alb and stole for the Eucharist.

Your Dalmatic was provided by the church though I assume? If so I am going to go out on a limb and suggest it probably was a bad fit. I custom order all my vestments for this reason.

It may also have been cut without consideration for female clergy; there is a shortage of vestments optimized for use by women. They tend to cost more, and the vestment suppliers I have used don’t even sell them! The only measurement most ask for is height. I think this is terribly unfair. You can get choir gowns for men and women that cost exactly the same, but the moment you want a chasuble or dalmatic or cope, the number of suppliers is reduced and the prices are elevated, at least with the suppliers I know of. If you know of any where this is not the case; let me know, because as it is most of what I buy ships from Poland, the Ukraine or India, so Australia would not be much of a leap and we have a lady who I am going to ordain to the diaconate (she is in my opinion qualified for any office, and she has a PhD in philosophy with a dissertation on philosophy of religion, and majored in NT studies, whereas I only have an MDiv, but we talked about it today and she does not want anything with a heavy workload; some deacons have a very heavy workload but it is also possible to provide them with a very light workload if you have other resources, which I do have).

In contrast to your experience, regardless of what caused it, I find my Eucharistic vestments to be extremely comfortable, except for that time last year, in September, when it was about 100 degrees Fahrenheit out, the air conditioning system failed midway through our Holy Communion service. I stopped the service after I had finished my homily.

Now, in the winter, when the Mojave Desert is freezing, the vestments are particularly comfortable, because I have to arrive early and turn on the heater, and the wait for it to get going is intolerable. I have to confess, I pray my vesting prayers before I even reach the draftier of the two worship spaces. I also have to confess to being envious of Eastern Orthodox clergy who wear dress slacks (trousers), a dress shirt, typically with cufflinks, and then their cassock on top of that, and then an Exorason, a sort of cloak, on top of that, during the desert winter. I normally like the winter, but not in the desert.


This was not the case with my old job, but that was full time, and I did not at the time own a successful programming business*, so the stoles the parish provided were most welcome. They were I think Cokesbury reversible stoles, one was red and white, I think, and the other purple and green. I have thought about getting a set as backup vestments and for baptisms.
 
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Paidiske

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No, it wasn't a physical thing (although in the heat of high summer here I might forego a chasuble; fainting is generally not conducive to orderly worship!). It's more a discomfort with the whole meaning of it. I wrote something about that here: Coming to grips with the dalmatic

And yes, usually the vestments are provided by the church. Or, to put that another way, you wear what's there, rather than imposing something else than what the parish has chosen and lovingly and faithfully put in place for the worship of that community.
 
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Shane R

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it probably was a bad fit.
Last time we had diaconal ordinations a new set of dalmatics had appeared. One ordinand had been a collegiate distance runner and could have concealed a lunch pail and a full size handgun under his vestment. The other was excessively husky and had to be assisted to extract himself from the vestment after the service. I've got a full set of dalmatics, sans rose, that I need to pass on to someone since I am unlikely to have a deacon at St. Joseph of Arimathea anytime soon.

I don't have rose myself but I do have Marian blue. As an aside, on those days when blue is prescribed it's best to have everyone with the same shade. Marian blue and Sarum blue really sort of clash with each other. Our American clergy are more likely to have Sarum blue; the Spanish churches Marian blue.
 
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The Liturgist

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No, it wasn't a physical thing (although in the heat of high summer here I might forego a chasuble; fainting is generally not conducive to orderly worship!). It's more a discomfort with the whole meaning of it. I wrote something about that here: Coming to grips with the dalmatic

And yes, usually the vestments are provided by the church. Or, to put that another way, you wear what's there, rather than imposing something else than what the parish has chosen and lovingly and faithfully put in place for the worship of that community.

I understand where you are coming from regarding clericalism. I think Christian churches have historically compounded the problem by historically hiring people who are from the “upper class”, the Church of England and the Roman Catholic Church and some Orthodox churches having historically been offenders in this respect, and the requirement for literacy among clergy and the lack of adequate education for children until relatively recently also contributed to it. And in the US, some seminaries are very expensive; there are scholarships, but it is discriminatory. I am not convinced we need seminaries; historically, the early church did not have them, and several Eastern churches do not require them. But what is required in all of those cases is friendship with the bishop, which introduces a potential social barrier because just as there are bad presbyters in every denomination, every denomination with more than a handful of bishops is statistically likely to have some who are not very nice people.

I am greatly opposed to clericalism and class divisions between clergy and laity because one major difference between Christianity and most other religions is that, in theory, we are not supposed to have a hereditary caste of priests. The Assyrian Church of the East actually was controlled by a hereditary dynasty from the 1600s until the 1975, when Mar Shimun XXIII Eshai, who had been consecrated as Catholicos-Patriarch at age 12 in 1920, was tragically assassinated. The system was wrong and the hereditary patriarchs were also victims, in that basically the way it worked, to preserve episcopal celibacy, is that the younger son of the fathers in the line would become the celibate patriarch, and the older son would marry, and thus the eldest nephew of the Catholicos would marry, and the younger nephew would be his successor. I doubt there was much choice in the matter. This whole system is also massively uncanonical; the canon law of the early church prohibited minors from taking vows of celibacy, prohibited anyone under the age of 30 from being ordained to the priesthood or a higher office, and also very strongly prohibited nepotism and the inheritance of ecclesiastical office; a bishop could not dictate his successor. Fortunately this was abolished when Mar Dinkha IV, memory eternal, became Catholicos, but a realization that this system was uncanonical not just according to the ancient canons but also according to the internal canon law of the Assyrian Church of the East, in the 1950s, when a bishop assigned to one of the dioceses in Malankara, India, obtained access to the volume and discovered that it was uncanonical in the Assyrian Church.

So the solution for clericalism I think is to eliminate anything that remotely resembles a hereditary priestly caste, whether this results from class and economic privilege, ethnicity (the historic superabundance of Italian Popes of Rome, and for that matter, the bishops of and priests some non-ethnically Greek parts of the Greek Orthodox church, such as the bishop of the American Carpatho-Rusyn Orthodox Diocese, and nearly all priests in the Greek Orthodox Patriarchate of Jerusalem, the laity of which is largely Arabic, and the prevalence of Oxbridge graduates who are also Old Etonians or alums of other Public Schools, among the Episcopate of the Church of England.

I like vestments and paraments because they beauty the service and also take attention away from the person of the celebrant...many of you may disagree, but I think its a good thing when we are able to disappear into our vestments or choir dress. Also, many vestment designs do make it much harder for a presbyter to call attention to himself. For example, the Phelonion worn by Eastern Orthodox priests would tend to restrict raising the arms upwards.
 
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Paidiske

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It's not as bad as it used to be, but you're right; the requirement for a degree as a sine qua non of ordination does mean that some people will never be considered. I see the problem but I am not sure what the answer is, since I am also firmly of the opinion that a robust and in-depth education is absolutely essential equipping for the role. I could see potentially some sort of apprenticeship type model, pairing practical experience with some academic input, but it would require a whole new system to be set up, which is probably not going to be top of the to-do list for any of our denominations any time soon.

But it does mean that in some places, the clergyperson may well be the only tertiary-educated person in their parish. And that sets up some unfortunate dynamics.

As for social privilege and hereditary priesthood, I've certainly observed that those of my peers who come from families well established in the church (grandfather a bishop, that sort of thing) the path to various forms of preferment is smooth and easy.

Side note: one thing I had the opportunity to observe, which was very difficult on all sides, was what happened when war in the Sudan meant a great many refugees coming to Australia, among them some clergy. These were good, faithful, loving priests, some of whom had ministered for years in brutal conditions in refugee camps and the like; but their education standard was roughly on a par with about middle school in Australian terms; and often they struggled with English. Finding a way for them to minister here, while meeting minimum expectations for professional competence, was a genuine challenge.
 
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Shane R

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I see the problem but I am not sure what the answer is, since I am also firmly of the opinion that a robust and in-depth education is absolutely essential equipping for the role. I could see potentially some sort of apprenticeship type model, pairing practical experience with some academic input, but it would require a whole new system to be set up, which is probably not going to be top of the to-do list for any of our denominations any time soon.
This is where the Continuing Anglican churches have something to teach the Anglican Communion. There was a time, not so long ago, when probably half of the clergy had gone through 'reading for orders' programs. This was distance based education prior to the advent of widespread online coursework. It was a concession to the situation of many of the clergy being working men or older individuals pursuing a second vocation, possibly without the undergraduate background necessary to enter a traditional seminary. It works something like this: the aspirant is attending a parish, being groomed by the clergy to serve in the chancel in various capacities. He is commited to a rule of prayer and study. The bishop or archdeacon supervises him in needful theological studies and institutes some method in testing his proficiency with the required material. Sometimes this leads to a degree issued by the jurisdiction which he has worked with and sometimes it simply leads to ordination. But the Continuing churches have struggled to maintain traditional seminaries, mostly because we have struggled to cooperate across boundary lines so often. So we've got the idea, if not the optimal execution.
 
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I think we historically had something similar (although here you can do seminary as an undergrad; B.Theol + Dip. Min being a fairly standard combination). I believe it was not found to be satisfactory, but that was a bit before my time, so I don't know a lot about the detail.
 
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