Literal Israel and Spiritual Israel

[keras]

Throughout the New Testament, as well as in some prophecies of the Old Testament, the Bible makes a transition from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. Hosea 2:23, Romans 2:28, 29; Galatians 3:29; Romans 9-11

In Revelation 12:1-17, we find this transition from literal to spiritual Israel in the prophetic language of symbols. In verse 2, the symbolic woman is pregnant. Her child is Jesus who was born a Jew in the land of Judah. In verse 4 the dragon/Satan seeks to destroy the child Jesus when He is born. This was fulfilled by Herod: Matthew 2:13-16. In verse 5 the child is caught up to God in heaven, representing the resurrection of Christ.
As the prophecy progresses in verse 6, the woman no longer represents literal Israel but has now transitioned to spiritual Israel fleeing from persecution during the 42 prophetic month period of the Great Tribulation. In verses 7-12 we find a mini “repeat and enlarge” taking us back to the war in heaven and showing the impact of the cross on that war. Then, in verse 13 the woman is again brought to view, being persecuted by Satan. In verse 14 she is given wings of an eagle so as she can escape. Verses 6 and 14 present a major prophetic transition to God’s people. Both the woman and her place have changed from literal Israel and Palestine to spiritual Israel and the new place God has prepared for her. Note that some Christians remain: verse 17 and Satan persecutes them. They are the ‘many’ that agreed to the 7 year treaty of peace with the Anti-Christ, Daniel 11:32a and do not go into exile: Zephaniah 14:2

At this critical junction it is important to understand three points outlined in the prophecy and confirmed both in the New Testament and in the history of the church:

1. After the death of Christ, the Israel of God, transitioned from literal Israel to spiritual Israel. From an ethnic people to all peoples.
2. God’s faithful people: the woman, are moved from literal Palestine to her “place” given to her by God, to avoid the Great Tribulation.
3. The new Israel of God: all true Christians, are the focal point of the New Testament and the inheritors of God’s promises to ancient Israel.

Failing to make the transition from literal, ethnic Israel to spiritual Christian Israel, and from literal Palestine to the place of safety, will leave us focused on the wrong people and in the wrong place.
The woman in the latter part of this prophecy represents spiritual Israel: all who are in Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28; Romans 2:28-29 It is all the true Christian individuals, who are the Israel of God. Galatians 6:16

Revelation 12 presents us with a prophetic outline of God’s Christian people in the symbolic form of a woman. In the first part of Revelation 12, the woman is the literal House of Judah, located in Palestine, The latter part of the same prophecy makes use of the same symbols that took literal Israel on their journey to Caanan; to now describe the journey of the woman, the Christian Israel of God, to a safe place on earth where they can worship Him in safety, until the 1260 days of the Great Tribulation have passed. Ref: James Rafferty

 

[Dave-W]

Throughout the New Testament, as well as in some prophecies of the Old Testament, the Bible makes a transition from literal Israel to spiritual Israel.

That is a protestant "christian" myth. There is no such a thing in the bible as a "spiritual Israel." That doctrine is a central tenet of that lie from hell called "replacement theology."
http://app.kehilanews.com/articles/582-the-tragic-error-of-replacement-theology

There is a "grafted in" Israel. Rom 11
There is also a "commonwealth of Israel." Eph 2.12

But no "spiritual Israel."

 

[Straightshot]

"As the prophecy progresses in verse 6, the woman no longer represents literal Israel but has now transitioned to spiritual Israel fleeing from persecution during the 42 prophetic month period of the Great Tribulation"


Wrong above

Revelation 12:6 and 12:14 is a remnant of literal believing Israel during the coming 70th week decreed for the nation [Jeremiah 30; Ezekiel 38: 39; Daniel 11:41; Micah 5:5-6; Zechariah 14:1-5; Matthew 24: 15-16]

 

[keras]

That is a protestant "christian" myth. There is no such a thing in the bible as a "spiritual Israel." That doctrine is a central tenet of that lie from hell called "replacement theology."

The Bible refutes you. Read and understand Romans 2:28-29
We Christians ARE the spiritual Israel of God. Galatians 6:16 The salvation offered by Jesus is to everybody and ethnicity is of no account.
You only hold to the lie of ethnic Israel, the Jewish people, still a set apart people, because of the rapture to heaven false theory.
Jews can be a part of spiritual Israel, provided they become Christian.

 

[Dave-W]

Jews can be a part of spiritual Israel, provided they become Christian.

You have no idea how backwards that is.

Did you read the article on replacement theology?

 

[Citizen of the Kingdom]

God's original agreement with the people He brought out of Egypt and how Christians are those who are now led out

Exodus 19:4-6a
You have seen what I did to the Egyptians, and how I bore you on eagles’ wings and brought you to myself.
Now therefore, if you obey my voice and keep my covenant, you shall be my treasured possession out of all the peoples. Indeed, the whole earth is mine, but you shall be for me a priestly kingdom and a holy nation.

Before there was an Aaronic priesthood there was an invitation for a priestly nation at Mount Sinai. The people coming into the wilderness all agreed to this covenant between themselves and God. While the people were consecrating themselves the Lord gave the commandments and how to build the tabernacle and serve therein. The tabernacle was to follow them thru the wilderness. But the people rebelled and they (Aaron) made an idol that they claimed had brought them out of Egypt (the golden calf). (made from all their gold earrings which signify a willing slave) God was burned to the core and regretted having them as His people and was ready to give it to another

Exodus 32:7-10
The Lord said to Moses, “Go down at once! Your people, whom you brought up out of the land of Egypt, have acted perversely;
they have been quick to turn aside from the way that I commanded them; they have cast for themselves an image of a calf, and have worshiped it and sacrificed to it, and said, ‘These are your gods, O Israel, who brought you up out of the land of Egypt!’”
The Lord said to Moses, “I have seen this people, how stiff-necked they are.
Now let me alone, so that my wrath may burn hot against them and I may consume them; and of you I will make a great nation.”

Christians are now the royal priesthood made up of living stones that have right now been brought to the heavenly Mount Zion.

Hebrews 12:19-23
For you have not come forward to a mountain which could be touched and which was set on fire, and to darkness and gloom and whirlwind,
And to the sound of a trumpet and to the voice of words, because of which those who heard entreated that no further word be spoken to them;
The sight was so terrifying that even Moses said, “I am trembling with fear.”
Instead, you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to myriads of angels
in joyful assembly, to the congregation of the firstborn, enrolled in heaven. You have come to God the judge of all men, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,…

Universal gathering, in the Greek, means festal gathering; a time of joy! This new covenant age is a festival! Along with the myriads of angels rendering ministering service to the heirs of salvation Hebrews 1:14also celebrating "so great a salvation" Hebrews 2:4

Count it all joy folks~ arise and shine for the light has come!

 

[Douggg]

Revelation 12 presents us with a prophetic outline of God’s Christian people in the symbolic form of a woman. In the first part of Revelation 12, the woman is the literal Jewish church located in Palestine

The church did not give birth to the male child. The church was not even in existence at the time. The woman is literal Israel. Not the church.

 

[Straightshot]

The "church" obviously did not give birth to Jesus .... neither is the "woman " of Revelation 12 Mary

The "woman" is the Lord's nation of Israel

 

[keras]

The church did not give birth to the male child. The church was not even in existence at the time. The woman is literal Israel. Not the church.

OK, I did put that a little wrong. I'm sure most could understand what I meant, though and it's only the likes of you and SS that jump on it, to keep Israel and the church separate, so as your rapture theory doesn't fall apart.
Jesus was born into the House of Judah. He offered the Kingdom to them and they rejected it and killed Him.
So now the Kingdom will be given to a nation that bears the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43. That can only be Christian believers, still scattered around the world and not yet formed into a nation, the true Israel of God. Some Jews will be a part of it.

 

[keras]

Did you read the article on replacement theology?

No I did not. Did you read Romans 2:28-29 ? + Ephesians 2:11-18, Galatians 3:26-29 and many others saying faith, not ethnicity is the requirement to be a Christian; to become an Israelite of God.
I don't espouse 'Replacement Theology', but the Restoration of the Christian Israelites of God, be they a Christian descendant of Jacob or grafted in by faith.
This is confirmed by Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8

 

[Douggg]

OK, I did put that a little wrong. I'm sure most could understand what I meant, though and it's only the likes of you and SS that jump on it, to keep Israel and the church separate, so as your rapture theory doesn't fall apart.
Jesus was born into the House of Judah. He offered the Kingdom to them and they rejected it and killed Him.
So now the Kingdom will be given to a nation that bears the proper fruit. Matthew 21:43. That can only be Christian believers, still scattered around the world and not yet formed into a nation, the true Israel of God. Some Jews will be a part of it.

Keras, I believe in a rapture to heaven, yes. But it has no bearing on how I interpret Revelation 12.

I have a "The Book" version of the Living Bible, which I have had maybe 20-30 years. I hardly ever refer to it anymore. But it had a nice feature, that at the start of each book it would give a synopsis of the content. In similar fashion, if I were going to put a heading on Revelation 12, I would call it - The seven year seventieh week relative to Israel.

The first half, the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6, that within that 1260 days a lot happens. Israel will have embraced the Antichrist as her King of israel. The two witnesses will be preaching to them, what a big mistake that is.

When the person betrays them, claiming to have achieved God-hood. And is subsequently killed and brought back to life as the beast, and an image made of him and placed in the temple - all those things happen before day 1185 of those 1260 days. And Israel flees into the wilderness.

There will then be the war in heaven, Satan cast down, for the remainder of the 7 years, the time, times, half times.
Israel, them in the wilderness, and Israel, them caught in Jerusalem. will have become Christians, after their initial mistake of embracing the Antichrist.

So Israel of the end times generation is the nation that will show fruit - although they are not at that point yet.

 

[Dave-W]

No I did not. Did you read Romans 2:28-29 ? + Ephesians 2:11-18, Galatians 3:26-29 and many others saying faith, not ethnicity is the requirement to be a Christian; to become an Israelite of God.
I don't espouse 'Replacement Theology', but the Restoration of the Christian Israelites of God, be they a Christian descendant of Jacob or grafted in by faith.
This is confirmed by Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8

I did and they fall under the grafted in Israel and/or the commonwealth of Israel, NOT spiritual Israel.

 

[Douggg]

I did and they fall under the grafted in Israel and/or the commonwealth of Israel, NOT spiritual Israel.

Hi Dave, although I disagree with Keras, I don't think you have it quiet right either. The tree represents "chosen people", such as Abraham and Noah and Enoch - none of which were Israel. Grafted in - it doesn't mean that we have grafted into the commowealth of Israel, but into the Kingdom of God is the principle, as a chosen people. Some of the branches were removed as being a chosen people... as the Kingdom of God was taken from them because of their rejection of Jesus.

 

[Straightshot]

Agreed

It is the Gentile believer that is "grafted in", but on matters of salvation only

This does not mean that the Gentile believer becomes a member of national ethnic Israel

The Lord's nation of Israel is kept separate from the nations of the Gentiles throughout the scriptures for His purposes

 

[keras]

The first half, the 1260 days of Revelation 12:6, that within that 1260 days a lot happens. Israel will have embraced the Antichrist as her King of israel. The two witnesses will be preaching to them, what a big mistake that is.

In the first half of the seven year treaty, there will be peace. The new nation of Beulah in all of the holy Land, have their own leaders, as per Jeremiah 30:21 and Hosea 1:11. I do not see anywhere or how they embrace the AC as king.
But at the mid point, the AC will conquer Beulah and then takes charge. He will put a stop to the Temple offerings, Daniel 9:27 and sit himself in the Holy Place. 2 Thessalonians 2:4
Then, for the 1260 days until Jesus Returns, the 2 Witnesses will preach in Jerusalem to those Beulahites who did agree to the peace treaty. Daniel 11:32a Those who remained faithful to God for His protection, are the ones taken to safety as per Rev 12. Zechariah 12:1-2 also details this time.

So Israel of the end times generation is the nation that will show fruit - although they are not at that point yet.

Right, so who is it that 'bears fruit'? Christians, that's who and it IS true righteous Christians who will comprise the new nation that will at last be God's witnesses and a light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8

I do agree with your #13

 

[keras]

This does not mean that the Gentile believer becomes a member of national ethnic Israel

We 'gentile' believers cannot and never will become citizens of the Jewish State of Israel. Can't you see the many prophesies saying how God will judge them and only a remnant will be saved?
What dozens of prophesies DO say, is how His people, now spiritual Israel will become physical Israelites of God in the new nation of Beulah. Isaiah 62:1-5 They will fulfil their destiny and be at last, a people living as God always intended His people to be.

The whole end times scenario seems like a closed book to you.
Oh, that's right: God has sealed the vision to all who have chosen the easy way out, rather than facing up to responsibilities. Isaiah 29:9-12

 

[keras]

I did and they fall under the grafted in Israel and/or the commonwealth of Israel, NOT spiritual Israel.

At this point in time, those 3 designations are basically all the same.
To be changed to physical Israelites as we gather and form the new nation of Beulah in all of the holy Land, soon after the Lord's Day of wrath clears and cleanses all that area. Deuteronomy 32:43, Isaiah 62:1-5, Isaiah 66:15-21

 

[Straightshot]

On and on you go with your Beulah stuff, but as I review your attempts to sell it, no one on this forum buys into it

There is a reason

 

[keras]

I think most people prefer to go by what the Bible actually does tell us, rather than misapplied scripture and fables and theories contrived from other sources.

Isaiah 62:12 And they shall be called: The holy people, the redeemed of the Lord and Jerusalem will be the sought after city; no longer forsaken.
Isaiah 61:3-11 tells the story of the Lord's people going to live in Beulah, after His Day of wrath. v 9 they are a people blessed by God, v11 the Lord will make His victory known to all the nations. Zechariah 8:1-8

 

[keras]

The Melchizedek priesthood is universal – not just Jewish.
Christians are citizens of the heavenly Jerusalem, Galatians 4:26, but Salem was a city of God in the time of Melchizedek – prior to Israel ever becoming a nation, with Jerusalem as its capital.
And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God. Genesis 14:18
The ascended and glorified Lord Jesus Christ is our eternal and universal King and priest in the order of Melchizedek. Hebrews 5:10; 6:20; 7:11; 7:17; 7:21

Abraham was called a Hebrew, Genesis 14:15, before Israel came into being through his grandson Jacob, so were not yet separated from the Gentiles. The Melchizedek type of priest is not of the earthly Jewish Levite type of priest to a particular nation (Israel) but is the spiritual, heavenly king and priest of the most high God to all the world.

In this age, all peoples have been shut into the prison of their disobedience….Romans 11:32, and the world is once again a world of just Gentiles. Their being a part of this present world, makes the Jews effectively Gentiles in God’s sight. Ethnic Israel is fallen, diminished and cast away. Romans 11:11-15 This has worked to everybody’s advantage by making a level playing field for those who seek God and become Christian. For those Jews who do accept the salvation offered by Jesus:
Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness? Romans 11:12

So there is no need to bless the State of Israel in order to receive a blessing from God in this present age. Jeremiah 14:10-12 In fact, because we are no longer strangers from the covenants of promise , Ephesians 2:12-13, and are the children of Abraham by faith, Galatians 3:7-9, it seems much more likely that those who bless members of the church of God will receive a blessing from God. The manifest wealth, power and (relative) humanity of Great Britain and the United States during their respective ‘golden eras’ is testimony that they were blessed of God for as long as they remained the hospitable home of true Christianity. Their decline is parallel to the moving away from their Christian values.

Now as we approach the end time events, we can expect this to happen:

Jeremiah 12:14-17 These are the Words of the Lord about all those evil neighbours who have encroached onto the land which I allotted to My people: Israel, as their holding: I shall uproot them. Also, I shall uproot Judah from among them, but after I have uprooted them, I shall have pity on them and bring them back to the Land. IF they will learn the ways of My people, THEN Judah can establish families among My people. But any nation that will not listen, I will destroy.

This clearly stated prophecy, supported by the many other vividly described prophesies about the Lord’s Day of wrath, says how the Lord will virtually depopulate the entire holy Land area, including Judah. Ezekiel 21:1-8, Amos 2:4-5

My people: true Christian believers will re-populate the Land and only Christian Jews will be able to join them.