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Featured Literal Interpretation of Bible Prophecy: Help or Hindrance?

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by Quasar92, Feb 26, 2018.

  1. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    What you have said here could not even possible be more completely incorrect.

    Ezekiel 36:1-10 very explicitly says that "all the house of Israel, all of it," will again inhabit "the mountains of Israel," along with "the hills, the rivers, the valleys, the desolate wastes, and the cities that have been forsaken." The Hebrew word "kol," which literally translates as the English word "all," is doubled in this sentence to stress that the meaning is absolutely all of "the house of Israel." There is no way to even pretend that this has ever happened. A small fraction of the two tribe nation of Judah and Benjamin is all that returned from Babylon, not each and every living Israelite.

    Again, Ezekiel 47 very explicitly defines the future borders of the land. And the following chapter specifies how it will be divided among the twelve tribes. There is no way to even pretend that the restored nation of Judah ever enjoyed these borders. And ten of the twelve tribes never even had any significant representation there, to receive their respective plots of land.

    Also, Isaiah 7, 10, 14, 30, and 31, Micah 5, and every chapter of Nahum, describe a future attack on Judea that will come from Assyria. These chapters contain a great many details that have unquestionably never taken place. Two of these details are the precise path that this attacker will follow, in Isaiah 10:28-32. It is an unquestionable fact from well known history, that no ancient attack from Assyria (or from any other nation, for that matter) ever approached Jerusalem by following this path. And the counter attack by Israel so clearly described in Micah 5:5 has never taken place.

    I could go on and on. But these details are enough to conclusively prove that the Bible describes a prophetic program which has never been fulfilled.
     
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  2. Biblewriter

    Biblewriter Senior Member Supporter

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    The prophetic scriptures very clearly describe Judah already back in their ancient homeland when the period it called "the time of the end" begins. But it shows them there in a state of rebellion and unbelief.

    Then, they describe a time of unparalleled suffering, which among other things will kill two-thirds of them. But they explicitly say that this time of suffering is intended and designed to bring a remnant of them to repentance. Then, when they have finally repented of their wickedness, and only then, Messiah will return, save the ones who have repented, bring back all their brethren from all over the world, purge out the rebels from among them, and bless those remaining.

    All this is explicitly stated in the prophetic scriptures, and is not just interpretations drawn from dark sayings which may or may not mean what people think they mean.
     
  3. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Obviously, we who are on earth alive today have not resurrected. But just as Adam died spiritually the day he ate of the fruit, we have been made alive spiritually through Christ.

    And we die daily to our old nature and daily rise with Christ to be new creatures. To Those who have died to sin and live to God, the 2nd death has no power.


    So you also must consider yourselves dead to sin and alive to God in Christ Jesus.
    Romans 6:11

    I protest, brothers, by my pride in you, which I have in Christ Jesus our Lord, I die every day!
    1 Corinthians 15:31 -

    Agree, but Being born again is being sealed by the holy spiritual. Which is a guarantee of the inheritance we will acquire: power over the 2nd death, eternal life with God.

    In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
    Ephesians 1:13-14

    Have you not died to sin and been raised with Christ yet? This is a very important resurrection. Being sealed with the Holy Spirit is a down payment.

    Do you believe that believers who have died are currently in the presence of the Father? If so, you believe the resurrection has already happened.

    For no one before Christ resurrected and ascensed to the Father.

    13 No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.
    John 3:13

    And believers who died during the time of Paul had not yet ascended to the Father:

    Then he appeared to more than five hundred brothers at one time, most of whom are still alive, though some have fallen asleep. For if the dead are not raised, not even Christ has been raised. Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. What do I gain if, humanly speaking, I fought with beasts at Ephesus? If the dead are not raised, “Let us eat and drink, for tomorrow we die.”
    1 Corinthians 15:6,16,18,32


    And no one would appear in glory prior to the coming of Christ

    For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. When Christ who is your life appears, then you also will appear with him in glory.
    Colossians 3:3-4
     
  4. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations

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    Not at all, which is more reason why He will sit in Jerusalem as King someday! He is the foundation of our faith, the chief cornerstone, but that does not invalidate God's prophetic word concerning Israel. Romans 11 warned you not to be ignorant!

    Absolutely.

    Christians are the body of Christ and the Kingdom of God that we inherited. Nothing negates the fact that Romans 11 and the OT prophetic promises for Israel will not be fulfilled. You seem to be able to trash prophecy, distort it, to conform to your beliefs. Those prophecies will literally be fulfilled. You like big print? You like colors too?
    GOD WILL REMOVE THE VEIL OF A CURRENT REMNANT OF THE JEWISH POPULATION AND THEY WILL BE GRAFTED INTO THE BODY OF CHRIST - WHETHER YOU ACCEPT IT OR NOT. PROPHECY WILL BE FULFILLED. NATIONS WILL SOON JOIN TOGETHER AND ATTACK ISRAEL AND THEY WILL BE DESTROYED.

    Replacement theology doesn't fly with me!


    Amen!
     
  5. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations

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    Wow! Do you not know also that God uses mankind to serve His purpose? He guides us, prospers us, gives us some riches and wealth and some poverty for His purpose. Evidently, you don't believe in the Sovereignty of God or don't fully understand what that means. If God can draw 10,000 animals_ two of every kind_into an Ark, don't you think He can draw the Jews back home and get the job done by using whatever governments, leaders, money or people to do it?
     
  6. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations

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    I should just bow out, sit back and let you handle it!
     
  7. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations

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    BABerean2,
    You forgot to answer my earlier question:
    So the question is:
    ***Concerning Rev. 20:14, when it says Death and Hades are cast into the Lake of Fire and destroyed, does it mean that spiritual death is destroyed or does it mean that both physical and spiritual death are destroyed?
     
  8. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Doesn’t he currently sit in the true Jerusalem (heavenly) as king?

    But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.
    Galatians 4:26

    Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption.
    Acts 2:30-31

    that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.
    Ephesians 1:20-21

    and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
    Revelation 1:5
     
  9. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations

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    I have died to my sins and have been born again, spiritually. Again this is not the resurrection body which Jesus has. We will get this new body at the last trumpet. We will be changed, transformed in the twinkling of an eye. (1 Thes.1:16, 17; 1 Cor. 15:51, 52)

    To be absent the body is to be present with the LORD. Yes, but they have not received their eternal bodies yet. This may sound strange to you, but they will also receive eternal multi-dimensional bodies like Jesus has. He is able to appear in bodily form and eat as He did and disappear, ascend and descend. Has any of your departed relatives appeared to you in bodily form yet? We will have new bodies both capable of spiritual and physical abilities.

    "For if the dead are not raised" means if they do not rise. That is if they are not raised, it doesn't mean they have been raised. They will rise from the dead. If you look in craves of all the Christians, their bones are still there. Christ's tomb was empty. His dead body wasn't still there and only His spirit rose. No, no, no. Those who are in heaven and those Christians who are alive when He comes will be joined with the bodies, transformed into new resurrected bodies. Sounds like a zombie movie? Actually all God needs to join you with your body, even if it had been cremated is one speck of ash, one fragment of DNA. Actually He doesn't need that either, He can recreate a person exactly how they were at any age. Graves will be empty as Jesus' tomb was empty when this happens.
    Martha said to Jesus, "I know that he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day."(John11:24)
    "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draw him; and I will raise him up at the last day." John 6:44
    "Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice." John 5:28

    The dead unbelievers will also be raised. God will give them flesh, bones, life as they were. Why? To be thrown into the Lake of Fire.
    "I will put sinews on you and bring flesh upon you, cover you with skin and put breath in you; and you shall live. Then you shall know that I am the LORD."Ezek.37:6
    This was a prophecy given to Ezekiel, when the Lord told him to speak to the dry dead bones!


    Amen, that's when I will receive my new body. Otherwise in 1 Thes. 4:17, where it says, "...we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air", would not make sense. We would have to die first. Or do you think we will just be walking along and then our spirits will depart and our bodies will just drop to the ground? Actually, we will disappear and our clothes will be left behind. I would imagine this resurrection as Jesus had, will leave an image radiated on our clothing, like the Shroud of Turin - if that is authentic.
     
  10. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations

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    Spiritually the Jerusalem above is Heaven (Heb. 12:18, 22). Those who are citizens of heaven (Phil. 3:20) are free from the Mosaic law, works, bondage, and trying endlessly and futilely to please God...
    But on earth Jerusalem in is Israel and will have a King sitting in His throne someday!
     
  11. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    Amen! Then you have the guarantee from the Holy Spirit that your physical death will not be your end.

    In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
    Ephesians 1:13-14

    Agree. Never said it was. Only that by being born again, we die to sin and are raised in Christ to be a part of his body, a kingdom of priests unto God, proclaiming the gospel over the earth.

    But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for his own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of him who called you out of darkness into his marvelous light.
    1 Peter 2:9

    The Old Testament saints did not go to be with the lord upon death:

    The only one who has ever gone up to heaven is the one who came down from heaven—the Son of Man.
    John 3:13

    “As for you, Daniel, go and live your life until the end. You will get your rest. At the end you will rise from death and receive your share of the promise.”
    Daniel 12:13

    “My brothers, I can tell you for sure about David, our great ancestor. He died, was buried, and his tomb is still here with us today.
    Acts 2:29

    God was pleased with all of them because of their faith. But not one of them received God’s great promise.
    Hebrews 11:39

    But Paul believed he was living in the last days and that the the resurrection was coming in his lifetime:

    having hope toward God, which they themselves also wait for, [that] there is about to be a rising again of the dead, both of righteous and unrighteous;
    Acts 24:15

    And all these things as types did happen to those persons, and they were written for our admonition, to whom the end of the ages did come,
    1 Corinthians 10:11

    Hence, when he said he believed to be away from the body, he would be at home with the lord as he believed he was living in the last days and Jesus would come in his lifetime


    The only way to be in the presence of the Father is to be in a resurrected body. We are not naked in heaven.

    For in this tent we groan, longing to put on our heavenly dwelling, if indeed by putting it on we may not be found naked. For while we are still in this tent, we groan, being burdened—not that we would be unclothed, but that we would be further clothed, so that what is mortal may be swallowed up by life. He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
    2 Corinthians 5:2-5

    Why would we ascend to the Father before the resurrection, if jesus ascended after the resurrection?

    No. And why would they?

    Correct at the time paul was writing this. No one had resurrected.

    Paul has answer for what kind of body we will receive upon the resurrection: we get a spiritual body:

    But someone will ask, “How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?” You foolish person! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body that is to be, but a bare kernel, perhaps of wheat or of some other grain. But God gives it a body as he has chosen, and to each kind of seed its own body. It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. But it is not the spiritual that is first but the natural, and then the spiritual.
    1 Corinthians 15

    Agree

    Don’t forget being born again:

    25 “Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming, and is now here, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.
    John 5:25

    And paul believed this would happen during his generation.
     
  12. claninja

    claninja Well-Known Member

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    So you agree, that Christ is sitting as king in the true Jerusalem (heavenly)?

    Earthly Jerusalem shares no inheritance. It was cast out

    But what does the Scripture say? “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.”
    Galatians 4:30
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  13. parousia70

    parousia70 I'm livin' in yesterday's tomorrow Supporter

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    All the prophesies of the Land are presently, totally and completely FULFILLED IN THE PERSON OF CHRIST.

    Amos 9:15 points to Jesus, not to dirt.

    "For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us." [2 Corinthians 1:2]

    And Again, Not one single verse, old testament or new, written AFTER the Babylonain Captivity, prophesies any future "return" of the Jews to their land.

    No even one. If there were, you'd cite it for us, but there isn't, so you can't.

    It's cut and dry.

    All the prophesies about an exile and subsequent return were foretold before, and fulfilled completely, by the end of the Babylonain captivity. Period.

    You can not show from scripture one single prophesy that foretells a subsequent, post post Babylonain exile AND RETURN of the Jews to the land.

    The only "return" to a covenanted existence with the Father now offered for Jews is in and through Christ and His Church.

     
  14. PesachPup

    PesachPup New Member

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    *[[Isa 11:10]] KJV* And in that day there shall be a ROOT of JESSE, which shall stand for an ENSIGN OF THE PEOPLE; to it shall the Gentiles seek: and his rest shall be glorious.
    *[[Isa 11:11]] KJV* And it shall come to pass in that day, that the Lord shall set his hand again the SECOND time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

    The second regathering of the remnant of his people has not happened yet because Christ Jesus is the root of JESSE, the ensign:
    *[[Isa 11:12]] KJV* And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

    *[[Rom 15:12]] KJV* And again, Esaias saith, There shall be a root of Jesse, and he that shall rise to reign over the Gentiles; in him shall the Gentiles trust.

    And here is when the gathering from the four corners takes place:

    *[[Mat 24:31]] KJV* And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

    *[[Eze 16:60]] KJV* Nevertheless I will remember my covenant with thee in the days of thy youth, and I will establish unto thee an everlasting covenant.

    The PuP
     
  15. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Before 1948 about 10% of that land belonged to Palestinian Christians.


    Do you think God made Adam eat of the forbidden fruit, or was it Adam's choice?

    Do you think God made Satan rebel against him, or was it Satan's choice?

    Do you think God forced Jesus to die for us at Calvary, or was it His Son's choice?

    .
     
  16. BABerean2

    BABerean2 Newbie Supporter

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    Then why are you replacing the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16?

    Why are you replacing the word "so", with the word "then" in Romans 11:26?

    Why are you replacing the children of the promise, with the children of the flesh in Romans 9:8?

    .
     
  17. jgr

    jgr Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You still haven't responded with how God distinguishes Israel when Abraham's DNA is found in everyone on earth.

    Abraham lineage

    DNA Tests Could Fulfill God’s Promise to Abraham by Revealing Millions of Jews. But How Jewish is Jewish Enough?

    Israel in all of Us? Research finds 'Jewish genes' in unusual places

    You still haven't responded with how God's selection criteria are anything other than faith and obedience.

    I have not the slightest problem with God's will, for I see from Peter's declaration in Scripture what it is based on:

    Acts 10
    34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
    35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

    His will is not based on unqualifiable, unquantifiable, undefinable, unscriptural criteria.

    It is based on faith and obedience, and nothing else.
     
  18. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations

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    I agree mostly with couple exceptions.
    The OT saints were taken to Paradise when Jesus died. He said to the thief beside him, "Today you will be in P.aradise." If there are different levels of heaven, that's one of them for sure. Prior to that, faithful Jews went to Abrahams bosom. Hades was divided into two locations separated by a great gulf. Jesus went and got them. His sacrifice was imputed to them.
    "To be absent the body is to be present with the Lors, literally means when a Christian dies, they go directly to be with the Lord. Remember, when Stephen died he said, receive my spirit? He meant now, not in some distant future. That means he went directly to the Lord. That is what Paul meant as well.
    During Jesus ministry, Moses and Elijah visited Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration where the disciples witnessed Jesus glorified state. Where do you think they were hanging out prior to that? With Abraham. Where did Enoch go when the Lord took him? He didn't die, he was taken to a spiritual place, heaven if you will or a level thereof.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2018
  19. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations

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    Ate you that naive to ask how God would distinquish/ know who anyone is? He knows all.
    And then your last line is absurd, God's will is based on our faith and obedience? This is why I'm done conversing with you, you don't understand what you are talking about and your questions miss the mark.
     
  20. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations

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    1. God owns everything.
    2. A choice God knew he would make. He pit the Tree in the Garden and allowed Satan in there as well. It was part of the plan.
    3. A choice that God knew and allowed. Evil was necessary for man to understand good.
    4. You seem to distinguish God from Jesus. He is God and that was the plan from before the foundation of the earth. It wasn't some after thought, "Oh my, look what they've done, Ill have to fix that." He doesn't respond to our every false move. His plan was already worked out before any events occurred.

    Now back to my question about death. ??
     
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