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Featured Listen, you distant peoples

Discussion in 'Eschatology - Endtimes & Prophecy Forum' started by keras, Oct 26, 2018.

  1. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Isaiah 8:5-8 The Lord says: Because this nation [Judah] has rejected the gentle water of Shiloh, [Isaiah 5:24: the Laws and Covenant of God] then I will bring against them a flood. They will sweep through Judah and conquer the whole Land.
    This was fulfilled by the Babylonian and the Roman captivities. Isaiah 5:13, 2 Kings 17:18-20. But Ezekiel 21:14 says there will be: 3 swings of the Sword against Judah.

    Isaiah 8:9-10 Take note, you nations, you too will be shattered. Listen you distant peoples of the earth, prepare yourselves , devise your plans, but they will not be carried out, for the Lord is with us. Micah 4:11-12

    Isaiah 8:11-15 The Lord told me not to follow the ways of this people, [Judah] not to agree to any alliance or treaty that they agree to or to fear what they fear. Isaiah 28:14-15 The Lord is the One that you must regard with fear and awe, He is the One you must hold sacred.

    But for the House of Israel and the House of Judah, He will be as a stone that causes people to trip and for the people of Jerusalem, He will be as a trap, that makes many fall and suffer. Zechariah 12:3

    Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the message, seal the instruction, so that it cannot be consulted by My disciples. 2 Timothy 4:3-4, Isaiah 29:11

    Isaiah 8:17-18 I shall wait eagerly for the Lord, who is hiding His face from Israel, I shall put my trust in Him. Here we are: all children of our Lordwe are the signs and symbols of Israel, sent by the Lord, who dwells on Mt Zion.

    Isaiah 8:19-22 Others will suggest that you consult mediums and spiritualists, who whisper and mutter, but why ask the dead for instruction, when what they say brings no light? So despondency and fear will come over those people, in their futile search for the truth, they will rebel against their rulers and their gods. Wherever they look, all is gloom and darkness and there will be no escape for them. Hosea 4:12, Jeremiah 29:8-9, Isaiah 66:17


    Isaiah 33:13-16 You dwellers afar off, hear what I have done, acknowledge My might, you that are near at hand. The godless sinners in Zion will quake with terror, with trembling they ask: Can any of us live with a devouring fire, in perpetual flames?

    The people who behave uprightly and speak the truth, who scorn to enrich themselves by extortion or bribery. Those who keep their ears and eyes from evil, it is these people who will dwell in safety, with their food assured and water never failing them.

    Isaiah 33:24 No one living there will say; I am sick and the sins of the people who [will] live in the Land will be pardoned. Isaiah 44:22, Psalms 103:1-5, Ezekiel 37:20-27 Reference: REB some verses abridged


    Listen you distant peoples, the plans and preparations of the ungodly peoples, to occupy all of the Holy Land and wipe Israel off the map, will not prevail. Psalms 83:1-18
    The Lord Himself will destroy them in His Day of wrath.

    you dwellers afar off: Our situation now; Christians scattered around the world. 1 Peter 1:1

    Here we are: all children of the Lord; Romans 9:24-26. Faithful Christian believers are now the Israelites of God, individuals from every tribe, race, nation and language are the Lords holy people. Galatians 3:26-29, Romans 9:6-8, Revelation 5:9-1

    it is these people who will dwell in safety and prosperity: Soon after the Lord’s Day of fiery wrath, that will clear and cleanse all the holy Land, the call will go out to all the people who stood firm in their faith, Zechariah 10:8-12, to gather and live there, Hosea 2:14-23, Jeremiah 31:8-9, as God always intended His Israelite, now: the Christian peoples to be His witnesses and a light to the nations. Isaiah 43:10. Isaiah 49:8

    Bind up the message, seal the instruction, so it cannot be consulted by My disciples. Deuteronomy 29:4, Isaiah 29:9-12

    It is no wonder that the Christian church cannot sort out or properly understand prophecy. The Lord actually does not want most people to know His plans, however the prophetic Word has been given to us Christians for a reason and for those who genuinely apply themselves, putting aside all preconceived notions and false teaching; then it is possible to discern our future. Daniel 12:4-10, Hosea 12:10, 2 Peter 1:19
     
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  2. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Isaiah 8 actually says something different
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  3. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    Isaiah 7 is a testimony that “remaliah and resin” do not accept

    HIS DISCIPLES do accept this and this sir is the Testimony which is bound up AMONGST HIS DISCIPLES


    which is what isaiah 8:16 clearly says and not what you have suggested in your above post

    “Can not be consulted by my disciples” implies wrongly that HIS DISCIPLES” and that is not the meaning of Isaiah 8 at all

    Rather it is the very opposite
    Bind up the testimony and seal up the instruction amongst my disciples and when they tell you consult spirits

    (these are they who go to everyone else BUT those who hold to ONE TESTIMONY)

    Should not a people consult their GOD?

    To the testimony and to the instruction(law) if they speak NOT according to THIS WORD it is because they have no light in them
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  4. Handmaid for Jesus

    Handmaid for Jesus You can't steal my joy Supporter

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    Hey elder brother. This makes sense to me.There is too much disagreement in God's Church. I can't see the Holy Spirit being divided against Himself. Yet scripture tells us that He will not do anything with first telling His prophets.:hug:
     
  5. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I have given my Reference as the Revised English Bible and I do abridge some verses for space.
    So other translations, esp the KJV, will render it differently. But I stand by the REB as a superior Bible version, for clarity and unbiased accuracy. What I post, is what my Bible says.
    This inability to understand Gods Plans by the Israelites and Christians, is well prophesied in the Bible; Matthew 11:25, Daniel 12:9, Isaiah 29:9-12, Isaiah 42:18-20, +
     
  6. miknik5

    miknik5 "Let not your heart be troubled"

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    In response to your post. Even referring to OT scripture I stand on the JPS Tanakh.

    Isaiah 8
    11For the LORD spoke thus to me with a strong hand, admonishing me that I should not walk in the way of this people, saying: 12‘Say ye not: A conspiracy, concerning all whereof this people do say: A conspiracy; neither fear ye their fear, nor account it dreadful. 13The LORD of hosts, Him shall ye sanctify; and let Him be your fear, and let Him be your dread. 14And He shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem.15And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.’

    16‘Bind up the testimony, seal the instruction among My disciples.’17And I will wait for the LORD, that hideth His face from the house of Jacob, and I will look for Him.18Behold, I and the children whom the LORD hath given me shall be for signs and for wonders in Israel from the LORD of hosts, who dwelleth in mount Zion. 19And when they shall say unto you: ‘Seek unto the ghosts and the familiar spirits, that chirp and that mutter; should not a people seek unto their God? on behalf of the living unto the dead 20for instruction and for testimony?’—Surely they will speak according to this word, wherein there is no light.— 21And they shall pass this way that are sore bestead and hungry; and it shall come to pass that, when they shall be hungry, they shall fret themselves, and curse by their king and by their God, and, whether they turn their faces upward, 22or look unto the earth, behold distress and darkness, the gloom of anguish, and outspread thick darkness.
     
  7. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    In looking at other translations, it seems that only the REB is the "odd one out" (going by the OP, otherwise I can't even find this translation online) - all the other versions seem to be asserting the same thing (just expressed a bit differently).

    Isaiah 8:16 Bind up the testimony and seal the law among my disciples.

    Isaiah 8:16 NLT: Preserve the teaching of God; entrust His instructions to those who follow me.

    Are you - Keras - suggesting this discrepancy means that only those that follow the REB are understanding His plans?
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
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  8. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Best of luck!
    As I showed, many other scriptures support the REB version of the Lord's people's lack of understanding. Just as it is today, as we see in the multitude of church's and here on this forum.
    No. It is those who choose to believe false teachings, who will become locked into them and unable to discern the truths of God's plans for our future. Isaiah 29:9-12, Ephesians 4:17-18
     
  9. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    :scratch: I'd asked (noticing that only the REB seems to say "so that it cannot be consulted by My disciples." which is the exact opposite of all the other versions):
    And you replied with:
    ....and my point was: in posting this comment above and also your comment about this inability to understand God's plans by some of "His people" - I wonder if you're attributing this discrepancy between truth and false teaching to mean that the "truth followers" = the ones that follow the REB?

    IOW......what are you using as a yardstick to measure what is "false teaching" and what is truth (when you're comparing versions that suggest the opposite meaning)? From what I can tell - the REB stands alone in saying "so that it cannot be consulted by My disciples" - all the other versions say the opposite. So.....how do you determine the true teaching compared to false teaching? What is your guideline?​
     
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  10. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    What Bible version are you using?

    I keyed the phrase "distant peoples" into a concordance
    Found only 1 verse that it is used in,and that was in the CSB version.

    Strong's Concordance with Hebrew and Greek Lexicon

    distant peoples (NKJV)

    Awesome verse tho!

    Isaiah 49:1
    Coasts and islands,[fn] listen to me;
    distant peoples, pay attention.
    The LORD called me before I was born.
    He named me while I was in my mother's womb.
    Hi mkgal....I hope he isn't basing his whole theology on the REB....................

    .
     
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  11. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    @keras you cited Ephesians 4:17-18
    17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking.
    18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.
    ~ Ephesians 4:17-18

    ....notice what "darkens understanding"?

    God - I believe - wants His followers to understand His plans (not keep them in the dark).
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  12. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I believe you're starting with a faulty premise here in what I put in bold text (in my opinion).....but I DO agree that we need to put aside all preconceived notions and false teaching (I just believe we're probably considering "false teachings" differently).
     
  13. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Good post.
    I would say ignorance, along with the veil of Moses, the OC?

    2 Corinthians 3:15

    15 but till to-day, when Moses is read, a veil upon their heart doth lie,
    16 and whenever they may turn unto the Lord, the veil is taken away.
    Understanding. Root word 3563:

    1271. dianoia dee-an'-oy-ah from 1223 and 3563; deep thought, properly, the faculty (mind or its disposition), by implication, its exercise:-- imagination, mind, understanding.
    3563. nous nooce probably from the base of 1097; the intellect, i.e. mind (divine or human; in thought, feeling, or will); by implication, meaning:--mind, understanding.

    YLT)
    Matthew 22:37 -
    And Jesus said to him, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thine understanding/mind<1271> --

    Last time used. What a beautiful verse.......

    1 John 5:20 -
    And we have known that the Son of God is come, and hath given us a mind/understanding<1271, that we may know Him who is true,
    and we are in Him who is true, in His Son Jesus Christ;
    this One is the true God and the life age-during!


    3563. nous nooce probably from the base of 1097; the intellect, i.e. mind (divine or human;

    Now is just fascinating and why I love Luke and Paul.
    #3563 is used in just 1 verse of the Gospels, my bro Luke!

    Luke 24:45
    Then opened he up their understanding/mind<3563> to understand/comprehend<4920> the Writings,


    2 verses in Revelation concerning the beast and heads, mountains and the Woman.........

    Revelation 13:18
    Here is the wisdom! He who is having the understanding/mind<3563>, let him count the number of the beast, for the number of a man it is, and its number is 666.

    Revelation 17:9
    'Here is the mind<3563> that is having wisdom; the seven heads are seven mountains, upon which the woman doth sit,





    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  14. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I think you're right - that they go together (ignorance and the the veil of Moses - the veil upon their heart).

    What it seems to me that resolves that is wisdom (understanding) which results in turning unto the LORD - and you laid that out beautifully below:
    Well done, LLoJ.
     
  15. LittleLambofJesus

    LittleLambofJesus PESKY DEVIL! GIT! l SAID GIT! Supporter

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    Thanks mkgal. You have been such an inspiration for me on CF. May I give you a :hug:
    I noticed there is another Greek word used in that verse that is different and sheds even more light on it.


    Luke 24:45
    Then opened he up their understanding/mind<3563> to understand<4920> the Writings,

    G4920 (KJV)


    4920. suniemi soon-ee'-ay-mee from 4862 and hiemi (to send);
    to put together, i.e. (mentally) to comprehend; by implication, to act piously:-- consider, understand, be wise.


    I will just quote a few verses and one might recognize them from the OT:

    Mathew 13:15
    for made gross was the heart of this people, and with the ears they heard heavily, and their eyes they did close,
    lest they might see with the eyes, and with the ears might hear, and with the heart understand/comprehend<4920>, and turn back, and I might heal them.

    Acts 28:27
    for made gross was the heart of this people, and with the ears they heard heavily, and their eyes they did close,
    lest they may see with the eyes, and with the heart may understand/comprehend<4920>, and be turned back, and I may heal them.


    I also like to look up the Hebrew word used:

    Brenton LXX)
    Isaiah 6:10
    For the heart of this people has become gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand<H995> with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.


    995 biyn bene a primitive root;
    to separate mentally (or distinguish), i.e.(generally) understand:--attend, consider, be cunning, diligently, direct, discern,
    Strong's Number H995 occurs 170 times in 162 verses



    .
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2018
  16. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    I did explain it. I use other scriptures to show how the Lord withholds understanding on those who choose to believe false teachings.
    Ezekiel 12:2 These people cannot see or hear the Word because they are rebellious.
    Deuteronomy 29:4 But to this day, the Lord has not given you a mind to understand, or eyes to see, or ears to hear.
    Isaiah 56:10 All Israel’s watchmen are blind, perceiving nothing, they are like dumb dogs that cannot bark.
    Jeremiah 6:10 To whom shall I speak? To whom give warning, who will hear me? The peoples ears are blocked, they are incapable of listening, they treat the Lord’s Word as a reproach.

    As Daniel 12:9-10 says; ….only a few wise leaders will understand. Pray to be among them!
     
  17. keras

    keras Writer of Bible prophecy studies.

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    Right. 1 Thessalonians 5:4-6 makes that clear.
    BUT,
    for example; what do you know about the forthcoming Day of the Lord? What will trigger it, what will cause those terrible effects? Are you in the light, so that Day will not come upon you like a thief?​
    Seems to me that very few Christians know these things. Most that I know either don't care to know, or have their own fanciful notions about it all.
    My premise that God does not want most people to know His plans, is based on obvious facts; the sheer plethora of theories, ideas and fables about prophecy and also because He won't reveal what He will do to the ungodly. So we Christians must diligently study the prophesies, 2 Peter 1:19, so the day breaks to illuminate your mind. In other words, the holy Spirit gives understanding to those Christian who ask God, with the right heart.
     
  18. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    You are using other scriptures from the REB (beginning with this - what I believe is - faulty premise and proof-texting) - interpreting passages as meaning the exact opposite of all the other versions, though.

    And you ignored what I asked below:

    ....let me try this another way: when there's a contradiction like this - how do you decide which is correct? What has convinced you the REB is "right" and other versions are all "wrong" (false)?
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  19. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    I'm not sure what you're referring to when you write "obvious facts"......but the Scripture I read says this:


    James 1:5 ~ If you need wisdom, ask our generous God, and he will give it to you. He will not rebuke you for asking.

    Proverbs 2:6
    For the LORD gives wisdom; from His mouth come knowledge and understanding.

    Daniel 2:21 ~ He gives wisdom to the wise and knowledge to the discerning.


    ....and what LLoJ already shared:

    Luke 24:45
    Then opened he up their understanding/mind<3563> to understand/comprehend<4920> theWritings,


    I agree.

    Now that's a different topic. But what I get from Scripture is this (to me - this seems to sum up His plan):

    John 1:29 ~The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
  20. mkgal1

    mkgal1 His perfect way sets me free. 2 Samuel 22:33 Supporter

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    This post also seemed to get missed:

    .....it's not God that is causing the blindness.
     
    Last edited: Oct 27, 2018
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