Limited Atonement Refuted

[nobdysfool]

Nevertheless, that does not mean that the conversation is over, or that anyone has "won", or anyone has "lost". One person has made his opinion quite clear. Endless repetition of it will not add a whit to whether it is true or not. Truth is not established by repetition. Insisting that one's view is right, or that it reflects the true meaning of scripture does not mean that such is the case.

Let each be convinced in his own heart, and may God open every eye and heart to the Truth, and grant humility to admit if anyone is wrong.

 

[Robert Pate]

Does any one believe the gospel?

Religion is worthless. God in the person of Jesus Christ has perfected humanity in himself and has taken it to heaven. We are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

We have been reconciled to God by the work and person of Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

Its over, Its finished. Jesus is at the right hand of God in heaven. Jesus has overcome and has defeated sin, death and the devil. He is the victorious Lord of all things.

Renounce your worthless religion and trust in Christ alone.

 

[DD2008]

Does any one believe the gospel?

Religion is worthless. God in the person of Jesus Christ has perfected humanity in himself and has taken it to heaven. We are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

We have been reconciled to God by the work and person of Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

Its over, Its finished. Jesus is at the right hand of God in heaven. Jesus has overcome and has defeated sin, death and the devil. He is the victorious Lord of all things.

Renounce your worthless religion and trust in Christ alone.

I believe the gospel.

 

[JesusFreak78]

Does any one believe the gospel?

Religion is worthless. God in the person of Jesus Christ has perfected humanity in himself and has taken it to heaven. We are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

We have been reconciled to God by the work and person of Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

Its over, Its finished. Jesus is at the right hand of God in heaven. Jesus has overcome and has defeated sin, death and the devil. He is the victorious Lord of all things.

Renounce your worthless religion and trust in Christ alone.

Are you trying to say if you believe in limited atonement you aren't a Christian?

 

[Robert Pate]

Are you trying to say if you believe in limited atonement you aren't a Christian?

All down through the Old Testament men were saved by faith in God.

They believed God.

Jesus claimed to be the savior of the world, John 12:47.

If Jesus claimed to be the savior of the world. I think that it would be wise to believe him.

 

[JesusFreak78]

All down through the Old Testament men were saved by faith in God.

They believed God.

Jesus claimed to be the savior of the world, John 12:47.

If Jesus claimed to be the savior of the world. I think that it would be wise to believe him.

The world is both Jews and gentiles, it isn't every single person on the planet.

 

[Robert Pate]

The world is both Jews and gentiles, it isn't every single person on the planet.

Everyone that is not a Jew is a Gentile.

Gentile: 1. Among Jews one that is not a Jew.

2. Among Christians, a heathen or a pagan.

3. Among Mormons, one not a Mormon.

Source: Funk & Wagnalls Dictionary.

 

[JesusFreak78]

Everyone that is not a Jew is a Gentile.

Gentile: 1. Among Jews one that is not a Jew.

2. Among Christians, a heathen or a pagan.

3. Among Mormons, one not a Mormon.

Source: Funk & Wagnalls Dictionary.

I know that.

 

[anthony55]

Everyone that is not a Jew is a Gentile.

God sees all that have been born again inwardly as Jews rom 2:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart,

 

[Robert Pate]

God sees all that have been born again inwardly as Jews rom 2:

29But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart,

The question was who did Jesus die for?

The answer is if you are a flesh and blood human being Christ died for you, Hebrews 2:9.

 

[nobdysfool]

Does any one believe the gospel?

I do. I don't believe the question is quite that simple, though...

Religion is worthless. God in the person of Jesus Christ has perfected humanity in himself and has taken it to heaven. We are complete in Christ, Colossians 2:10.

"Perfected humanity"?? Have you looked around, lately? I don't see much perfection in humanity, with the exception of Christians, who, while not perfect, are at the least not nearly as bad as the non-Christians. The statement doesn't really square with what can easily be seen every day. Humanity perfected? Please define this more clearly, what must be meant is not apparent from the words used.

We have been reconciled to God by the work and person of Jesus Christ, 2 Corinthians 5:18-19.

That would be CHRISTIANS, Pate not every man without exception. Christians are reconciled to God, but non-Christians are not reconciled to Him, they are at odds with Him, and deserving of hell-fire for their sins.

Its over, Its finished. Jesus is at the right hand of God in heaven. Jesus has overcome and has defeated sin, death and the devil. He is the victorious Lord of all things.

No argument with those statements at all. They are true. I don't know of any true Christian that would deny any of them.

Renounce your worthless religion and trust in Christ alone.

This comes off as "preaching to the choir". I trust in Christ alone, for only in Him is salvation. I know my Reformed brethren are of that same mind, as well. Who exactly are you calling on to "renounce their worthless religion"? Please be more specific.

 

[Robert Pate]

I do. I don't believe the question is quite that simple, though...



"Perfected humanity"?? Have you looked around, lately? I don't see much perfection in humanity, with the exception of Christians, who, while not perfect, are at the least not nearly as bad as the non-Christians. The statement doesn't really square with what can easily be seen every day. Humanity perfected? Please define this more clearly, what must be meant is not apparent from the words used.



That would be CHRISTIANS, Pate not every man without exception. Christians are reconciled to God, but non-Christians are not reconciled to Him, they are at odds with Him, and deserving of hell-fire for their sins.



No argument with those statements at all. They are true. I don't know of any true Christian that would deny any of them.



This comes off as "preaching to the choir". I trust in Christ alone, for only in Him is salvation. I know my Reformed brethren are of that same mind, as well. Who exactly are you calling on to "renounce their worthless religion"? Please be more specific.

The scripture says that "God has reconciled the world unto himself," 2 Corinthians 5:19. You do not believe that scripture because it does not fit the Calvinist religion.

There are so many scriptures that you do not believe it makes it difficult to have a conversation with you.

Hebrews 2:9 is another one, it says that Christ has tasted death for every man. You don't believe that one either, do you?

And then there is 1 John 2:2 that says Jesus is the propititiation for the "sins of the whole world."

How can we have a conversation if you don't believe what the bible says?

John 4:14, Says that Jesus is the savior of the world.

I have looked and looked, I cannot find any scripture anywhere in the bible that says anyone has been predestinated to heaven or to hell. Nor can I find any scripture about a limited atonement.

 

[nobdysfool]

The scripture says that "God has reconciled the world unto himself," 2 Corinthians 5:19. You do not believe that scripture because it does not fit the Calvinist religion.

There are so many scriptures that you do not believe it makes it difficult to have a conversation with you.

Hebrews 2:9 is another one, it says that Christ has tasted death for every man. You don't believe that one either, do you?

And then there is 1 John 2:2 that says Jesus is the propititiation for the "sins of the whole world."

How can we have a conversation if you don't believe what the bible says?

John 4:14, Says that Jesus is the savior of the world.

I have looked and looked, I cannot find any scripture anywhere in the bible that says anyone has been predestinated to heaven or to hell. Nor can I find any scripture about a limited atonement.

Endless accusations, trying to tell me that I don't believe this or that...all because of hatred for Calvinism.

Let me make this crystal: I believe that Bible, every word of it. it is the inspired Word of God. What I do not believe is the spin that is put on it by those who think that they have some "mandate" from God to destroy some form of Christianity that they don't personally agree with. "We all know in part, and prophesy in part, but when the Perfect (Christ) come, the partial shall be done away." I see some things differently than they do, and it's not because I "don't believe the Bible", it's because my studies and my time spent with the Lord have led me to see things a little differently.

Just because they can't find scriptures that say this or that, doesn't mean the scriptures aren't there. Of course, some want them all spelled out, so there is no thought involved. Scripture doesn't always work that way. God has hidden much in the Word that can only be found by prayer, careful study and thought, and revelation and enlightenment by the Holy Spirit. Miners don't find diamonds or gold or silver laying out on top of the ground. They have to dig for them, expend effort, WORK to find them. So it is with the Truths of God's Word.

If they spent as much time and effort mining God's Word as they do insulting, putting down, and damning those who don't agree with them, their spiritual life would be much better, and the hatred would be gone.

The question is asked, "How can we have a conversation if you don't believe what the bible says?" I could ask the very same question...

Think about that.....

 

[Shulamite]

Endless accusations, trying to tell me that I don't believe this or that...all because of hatred for Calvinism.

Let me make this crystal: I believe that Bible, every word of it. it is the inspired Word of God. What I do not believe is the spin that is put on it by those who think that they have some "mandate" from God to destroy some form of Christianity that they don't personally agree with. "We all know in part, and prophesy in part, but when the Perfect (Christ) come, the partial shall be done away." I see some things differently than they do, and it's not because I "don't believe the Bible", it's because my studies and my time spent with the Lord have led me to see things a little differently.

Just because they can't find scriptures that say this or that, doesn't mean the scriptures aren't there. Of course, some want them all spelled out, so there is no thought involved. Scripture doesn't always work that way. God has hidden much in the Word that can only be found by prayer, careful study and thought, and revelation and enlightenment by the Holy Spirit. Miners don't find diamonds or gold or silver laying out on top of the ground. They have to dig for them, expend effort, WORK to find them. So it is with the Truths of God's Word.

If they spent as much time and effort mining God's Word as they do insulting, putting down, and damning those who don't agree with them, their spiritual life would be much better, and the hatred would be gone.

The question is asked, "How can we have a conversation if you don't believe what the bible says?" I could ask the very same question...

Think about that.....

 

[anthony55]

pate:

The scripture says that "God has reconciled the world unto himself," 2 Corinthians 5:19.

He has, and that reconciled world shall be saved by His Life according to rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now do you believe that ?

 

[Robert Pate]

pate:



He has, and that reconciled world shall be saved by His Life according to rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Now do you believe that ?

I believe all of the scriptures, I don't have a problem with any of it.

I don't have a problem with Romans 5:10. We are saved by his life because it was his life that fulfilled the law. Jesus Christ as the new Adam and representative of humanity has offered to God the Father a life of perfect obedience to his law. He did this in our name and on our behalf. It is his life that justifies us and makes us right with God.

 

[anthony55]

pate:

The question was who did Jesus die for?

He died for those that He reconciled to God. rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

 

[anthony55]

pate:

I believe all of the scriptures, I don't have a problem with any of it.

So then, you must believe that all who have been reconciled to God by the death of His Son, shall be saved by His life ?

Rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

Those being reconciled here are the same in 2 cor 5:

18And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation;

Which is the world in vs 19

19To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.

So this reconciled world, is promised to be saved by Christ life rom 5:

10For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.

So the world in view is a saved world, by the very promise of scripture.

Hence, those who go to hell and shall be lost, cannot belong to this world in 2 cor 5 19.

So the atonement is limited to only the reconciled world by the death of Christ or the atonement is limited to all who shall be saved.

Those who shall not be saved such as Matt 7:

23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

They never were reconciled to God by the Death of Gods Son ! You see the Truth now ?

 

[Shulamite]

Anthony55 states: 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Shulamite says: Amen and yes.

He NEVER knew them... (from eternity past He never knew them). "Those He FOREKNEW He (Jesus) predestined. The "foreknown" are the Elect. Those who are NOT KNOWN are those who were never chosen or elect.

 

[anthony55]

Anthony55 states: 23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Shulamite says: Amen and yes.

He NEVER knew them... (from eternity past He never knew them). "Those He FOREKNEW He (Jesus) predestined. The "foreknown" are the Elect. Those who are NOT KNOWN are those who were never chosen or elect.

Thats right ? Why would Jesus tell people He died for, Loved, and reconciled to God, why would He tell them I never knew you ?