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Limewire..Torrents -Living Righteously..

Discussion in 'Young Adults' started by TailTactics, Jul 8, 2009.

  1. TailTactics

    TailTactics Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind

    +26
    Christian
    Private
    US-Green
    My title is the only way you will see these words together in a single sentence. I rededicated my life to Christ but it is different this time. I am solely living for Him and ridding my life of all things that were leeches (that literally sucked away at ever establishing a relationship with God **video games, secular music, movies**). Using torrents and limewire to download torrents is obviously stealing but living in this modern world with this so much availability and convenience it is tempting to use these including torrents to download any song or movie you want for free. This is exactly it -sin is extremely enticing -temptation to use torrents (especially during this recession)-but it is WRONG and the Holy Spirit has been convicting me. Also with CDs that are burned and I don't own. I'm telling everyone this information to also see what your opinion is on it. This is a personal conviction (Please share if you have any similar convictions) but then again this could also be used to help others who are struggling because believe me it is very difficult to do away with these things but only through the power of Christ and my choice to live by Him was I able to do this. The same conviction occured for downloading ISOs and nds ROMS to play PSP and Nintendo DS games for free. I was so HUGE on gaming but I am willing to put it down to follow Jesus 100% with all my heart, soul, and mind. I feel myself drawing closer to Him through His word and worship. I couldn't get to this point if I didnt put down my will (gaming, free music, free movies, etc.) and embrace His will.
     
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  2. DanC922

    DanC922 Senior Member

    927
    +96
    Christian
    Engaged
    That's great. :) I did the same. I threw out all of my terrible music several years ago (most of it wasn't bought either). And over the past year or so I've seen that, even though it's commonly accepted by most people including Christians, downloading stuff without paying for it is stealing and sin. Any justification for it really falls short. It can be kind of awkward telling other people I don't want to watch a movie if they've downloaded it, but I answer to God, not them. I also got rid of the illegal copy of Photoshop that I had, which was the last thing I was holding onto since I love using it so much, but can't afford to pay for it. Righteousness is far more valuable than easily having things I can't pay for.
     
  3. Trashionista

    Trashionista Well-Known Member

    +511
    Agnostic
    Private
    CA-Liberals
    I refuse to give up my streaming online video favourites & Torrents. For several reasons:

    1. Foreign documentaries. It's nearly impossible to find some good Channel 4 and ITV documentaries on network TV here.

    2. Foreign language/World music. I don't have the funds [well, I would but I like to buy things besides CDs] to buy every foreign CD I want. It's one thing when you can find them at HMV - but many you have to go speciality and hobby stores to find them, and they charge you an arm and a leg. Furthermore, I don't see the point in buying an entire CD when I want one song. And before everyone jumps on me, iTunes doesn't have everything or really obscure things.

    3. Really, what's the difference between downloading off Limewire and watching bootleg video on Youtube? What about downloading from a university link for New York Times articles, even if you yourself don't pay for a subscription to the newspaper or live in New York?
     
  4. Qyöt27

    Qyöt27 AMV Editor At Large

    +528
    Methodist
    Single
    US-Others
    My only thing is Limewire went down the tubes years ago in terms of reliability, and the question of torrent security has even become iffy. About the only thing I use BitTorrent for nowadays is for grabbing the newest version of Ubuntu when it comes out, which is 100% legal. Same goes for the freebies given away directly by Nine Inch Nails or other bands that have adopted BT as their preferred method of distribution. It's not the network that's at fault here, it's what you're doing with it. I stopped using P2P networks to get music and whatnot years ago, when iTunes and Amazon MP3 finally managed to overshadow it in terms of how reliable they are. The only conviction that remains in me toward the stuff I did get before that is not to get rid of it, but to legitimize it - it'll take a while, but it'll happen (although I still haven't worked out some of the kinks concerning particular software versions that may be involved - nowadays I try to stick explicitly to free/open source software to cover what I need, and for most things that is all I need, so I'm not still bleeding problems like that).

    Underneath all of this, things have to be put in perspective. The fact of the matter is, the general public knows practically nothing about copyright infringement (which is the issue here - you will not be charged with theft if you're taken to court by the RIAA/MPAA, and the penalties for copyright infringement are different than the ones for theft), and they can only parrot the 'downloading is stealing' propaganda that the record and movie companies have inundated the public with for years. They use that sort of language because they can get a reaction with them, and because they may personally feel miffed, but it doesn't change what the law says.

    Not to mention that, 'legal' and 'ethical' are not interchangeable; same goes with 'illegal' and 'unethical'. Ethics are personal, law isn't. So for instance, it's technically illegal (via unauthorized works) to translate - merely translate - something that's available for commercial distribution in another country, but not your own, and then distribute just the translation, sans video/audio/software. Even if you own the original legit copy from said foreign country. But the problem there is that consumers have certain basic rights to what they buy, and my opinion is that said translations are a part of their rights, even if that particular issue hasn't been clearly spelled out in court.

    Frankly, if people knew and put the same emphasis on all things copyright infringement that the music and movies issues had, then the online landscape would be far different than it is. The problem is that there comes a point where people - including those in law enforcement/legislation/justice system - simply scoff at the ridiculousness of it, and continue to allow it, or 'turn a blind eye', if you will. That is, if they don't decide to put the issue to rest once and for all.

    What all of this comes down to, is that it's something where you have to figure out where your ethical limits are.


    Oh, and for the record, I'm shooting for a career in film, and still side with the consumers on this rather than the industry. Entertainment is for the people, because they are the only way you can even hope to get profit. So you better not tick them off (and I'm still a consumer, even though I hope to work with video for a living). Sony BMG learned this the hard way during the rootkit scandal a couple years back, just as DRM proponents are facing now, as people get more educated about it and start fighting back (and that's 'fighting back' from a wallet and litigation standpoint, not a downloading binge).
     
  5. TailTactics

    TailTactics Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind

    +26
    Christian
    Private
    US-Green
    Thx and I know it is difficult to do but when you are on the right track with God you know and will do things to build that relationship with Him.

    I understand the copyright infringement and stealing are not the same but how is that? You are taking material that isn't yours (copyrighted) and that isn't open source and using it. But then again what is the difference if you watch a video on youtube, as previously mentioned, or borrow a friends DVD or video game. Is it because you are "borrowing" and not "keeping". This is where, like you said, ethics come into play.
     
  6. Qyöt27

    Qyöt27 AMV Editor At Large

    +528
    Methodist
    Single
    US-Others
    Legally defined, 'theft' is deprivation of another's property, and requires that they no longer have it in their possession because it was taken by you - copyright infringement, on the other hand, is an intellectual violation, and applies to a lot of other scenarios. So while the basic 'it's not yours to do with as you please' baseline is still there, the suitability of the language used to describe it (which is how sentencing is handled in a court case) depends on the material specifics involved.

    Unauthorized copying would be the most relevant point to contrast theft and infringement, but it can even ostensibly include something like lending someone else a recording of a TV program you made - strictly speaking, you are the only one authorized to view it, as you made the recording; at the most permissive, maybe it applies to just within your residence, as it was made there and meant for private use only. This is perhaps the most obvious example of an interpretation authorities scoff at, because it's ridiculous, sort of like weird traffic laws that you can't leave your elephant 'parked' - or whatever the term is - on Main Street*; but unauthorized public display (again a form of copyright infringement) is just that idea taken to its most extreme conclusion. There's a dividing line there, and there's often no real telling where it crosses that line. Some things are clear-cut violations, and others are not. Theft is mostly clear-cut, although there's some grey areas in it, too - such as someone stealing property from you, and you taking it back from a non-involved third-party without alerting the police to the situation so they can legally handle repo-ing the goods. At least, that's one case I would assume where theft isn't so black and white - 'two wrongs don't make a right' mentality, basically.

    *there really is a law similar to this on the books in the city I live in, if I remember correctly.


    Lending, exhibition, parody, reverse engineering, and other things may or may not be protected under the law, and it mainly has to do with fair use, private use, anti-trust/cross-compatibility, etc. provisions. The bigger problem is that while such provisions do exist, they are not very well-defined, and there are practically as many circumstances to try (that's legal 'try', as to make clear in court) them under as there are circumstances to claim them for.

    The actual legality and nonlegality of something also changes from country to country and how they apply and interpret their own copyright laws. It's that nebulousness to licensing and copyright that underlies the reason that Ubuntu doesn't include certain things like MP3 or DVD playback by default (as some countries' laws wouldn't allow it while others' would), or why Microsoft cannot include Windows Media Player in copies of Windows sold in Europe (although European users are free to go download WMP and use it if they want to - but it can't be there from the start due to the anti-trust lawsuits Microsoft lost over there).
     
  7. Xenon

    Xenon Regular Member

    430
    +17
    SDA
    Single
    Stealing is stealing. There are some people in every form of media that encourage people to use their stuff for free, but the vast majority of material that is released is done so with the intent to sell it. God looks at the heart, not the law books of various nations. His law stands eternal and is very clear: "Thou shalt not steal".

    I too was convicted of this shortly after becoming a Christian. It took some time for me to fully stop, but God kept convicting me until I did. Honestly, I'm happier for it. None of those games, movies, or music were bringing me closer to Jesus (and the stealing didn't help ;) ). It is one of the things that I'm thankful that He has changed in my life.
     
  8. Dark_Lite

    Dark_Lite Chewbacha

    +889
    Catholic
    Single
    BitTorrent and Limewire are not illegal. Downloading things with them is not illegal.

    What you do download with them, however, may be illegal.
     
  9. Sketcher

    Sketcher Born Imperishable

    +7,342
    Non-Denom
    Single
    US-Republican
    Another thing: Limewire does not have it's stuff together. Even if you're paying for the service, the record companies will still go after you.
     
  10. nikkipompom

    nikkipompom Call me Noodles...

    +434
    Christian
    In Relationship
    limewire..i have so many buddies using it
     
  11. airmancarrasco

    airmancarrasco Randizzle

    24
    +0
    Christian
    Single
    I think it's only wrong if your selling it for profit. Technology is all around us and its there for our use. I think the only reason why people make a big deal about p2p sharing is they arent getting a cut......I could be wrong. But I do understand what you are doing and I say go with it. Keep going strong!!!! Why let other peoples opinions make you think otherwise. You know what you have to do!!!! I am curious though are you guys who feel bad for DL....DL like gigs or TB's of data?????
     
  12. TailTactics

    TailTactics Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind

    +26
    Christian
    Private
    US-Green
    Technically when you don't buy a song, game, or movie you're right, you are not taking the material and depriving the owner of the actual copyright. On the other hand you are depriving them of the money they could be receiving if you were to buy the product as opposed to download for free. Thus anything you get for "free" when there is a price is stealing. What is everyone's take on this? **if you do indeed have ideas to contribute to this topic

    We don't live by the law (thou shalt not steal) but by the spirit ~Romans 3:21,22_ but the conviction is real becasue it is through God's spirit. I can definately relate to you as where all this media was not doing anything for me and I was going nowhere in my relationship with Christ. I am still in the process of stopping completely but I have made quite some progress. And I too am grateful to God for the conviction. It is one thing to be convicted but it is another thing to act on the conviction.
     
  13. Klesk

    Klesk Junior Member

    83
    +4
    Baptist
    Married
    I download music to sample it. If I hear about a new band and I want to give them a try, I will usually download a cd from them to determine if that cd is something I feel is worth spending my money on. If I like it, I'll go out and buy it.

    The way I look at it is:
    If I hear about a band, there is no way im going to run out and buy a album of theirs without hearing it first. So for me its either
    A- Download the cd which I might potentially enjoy, and as a result, run out and buy (in the end obviously supporting the artist)
    B- Not even bother. So there is no chance of me finding out if I might like the music, and no chance of the band gaining another fan.

    If I dont like the cd, there is no loss on anyone’s part. I'm not going to listen to it, and I didnt actually take a physical copy of it that would cost money to put together and place on the shelf. I don’t feel any conviction for downloading, because in my eyes I see torrents (music torrents that is) as a form of advertising. I like a band, I buy the cd’s, the t-shirts, the concert tickets, I tell my friends, the word is spread.

    Maybe its wrong of me to look at it this way, but that’s just I how I see it.
     
  14. Mattbrochill

    Mattbrochill Ginger eater!

    8
    +0
    Atheist
    Single
    I dont understand your question,did you get rid of all games and music or just the ones that you steal and download?
     
  15. thegenerel

    thegenerel Newbie

    30
    +2
    Protestant
    Single
    US-Republican

    cliffs?
     
  16. Xenon

    Xenon Regular Member

    430
    +17
    SDA
    Single
    There's actually 2 great and free solutions for this: 1.) Amazon.com usually lets you sample music that you're looking to buy. Maybe you're into some more obscure music, but I've rarely had a problem sampling things for free. If not Amazon, then there's plenty of other sites that will let you do it too. 2.) Pandora.com, a fantastic place to find new music. You tell it what you like, and it will feed you similar things. You'll end up having to sift through some junk, but I've found many things that I've liked off of there.
     
  17. Klesk

    Klesk Junior Member

    83
    +4
    Baptist
    Married
    I visit amazon frequently for that reason, though I have to admit, sometimes I like to have more than a 30 second demo clip. Just checked out Pandora, thanks for posting it. Looks very similar to last fm
     
  18. lozzie

    lozzie Just me...

    +142
    Baptist
    Single
    I don't download but stream TV programs not yet available in Australia (EG I've watched Chuck recently, but it will probably never been screened on Australian free to air TV). I get frustrated because often the US TV Networks will have them available to stream for all Americans, but not for anyone else. Which means the only way to watch them is to stream them from secondary sites, or wait for them to be released on DVD here, or order them from overseas - which doesn't support the local ecconomy, and are not region 4 DVDs.
     
  19. TailTactics

    TailTactics Love the Lord with all your heart, soul, and mind

    +26
    Christian
    Private
    US-Green
    ? -what - cliffs??

    ok -the issue at hand is what is your take on how "copyright infringement" i.e. using torrent or limewire can affect ones ability to have a clear conscience when it comes to living righteously. I would like to know what each individual who is willing to share give their opinion on this. ..
     
  20. awakenurspirit

    awakenurspirit New Member

    35
    +5
    Christian
    Single
    US-Republican
    I don't believe that downloading music off of limewire or others like it is conviction; it is a sin. It is stealing. What type of music you listen to is a conviction. It does not say in the bible that you cannot listen to certain music. But it does say in the Bible not to steal.

    I don't personally listen to secular music. God CONVICTED me of that when I first became Christian. It was easier for me to give the worldly music up then most people I know. But I believe that was all God. Before I even had a relationship with Christ, I was beginning to hate secular music. I couldn't stand the words.

    I used to download music from limewire but stopped that when I realized it was stealing. Burning is also stealing and I admit... it's extremely hard to resist the temptation to download or accept a burned CD. Most people don't see it as stealing but if you really think about it... it is. The music isn't ours until be buy it.
     
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