Likely sarin (or other nerve agent) attack by terrorist Assad regime/allies

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Assad/allies do it again today (here's a thread on previous sarin attack in 2013, which officially crossed Obama's red line). But muh secularist regime protecting minorities against those Islamist terrorists it used nerve agent on today. Muh defender-of-Palestinians fighting against imperialism by killing hundreds of thousands of civilians, with the help of imperialists.

The Syrian Observatory for Human Rights reported that strikes on Khan Sheikhoun by Syrian government or Russian jets had caused many people to choke. Later, aircraft fired rockets at local clinics treating survivors, medics and activists said.

The SOHR put the death toll at 58, including 11 children, but Mr Rasoul reported that 67 people had been killed and that 300 were injured. The pro-opposition Step news agency meanwhile said 100 had died.

Syria conflict: 'Chemical attack' in Idlib kills 58

"The head of the health authority in rebel-held Idlib said more than 50 people had been killed and 300 wounded. The Union of Medical Care Organizations, a coalition of international aid agencies that funds hospitals in Syria, said at least 100 people had died."

Scores reported killed in gas attack on Syrian rebel area

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1939145496372061

‪Do you still doubt that #Sarin is being used on us? Non-reactive pinpoint pupils! We have samples. Will anyone care!? Who will stop it?‬

To Allaah we belong and to Him we shall return. There is no strength nor might except His.

 

[Solomons Porch]

I have no words.....

 

[High Fidelity]

Terrible, but what do we do? Both sides are as bad as each other unfortunately.

Rock and hard place don't quite sum it up adequately.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

While chlorine gas attacks have become almost routine in northern Syria, this one was different, medical workers and witnesses said. Chlorine attacks usually kill just a few people, often those trapped in an enclosed space, and the gas dissipates quickly.

This time, people collapsed outdoors, and in much larger numbers. The symptoms were also different: They included the pinpoint pupils of victims that characterize nerve agents and other banned toxins. One doctor posted a video of a patient’s eye, showing the pupil reduced to a dot. Several people were sickened simply by coming into contact with the victims.

Yasser Sarmani, a rebel fighter in the area, said he collapsed while rushing to the scene on his motorcycle to help victims. “It became a routine for us that when we hear an airstrike to rush to the scene and try to rescue people,” he said via an online call. “I woke up to the sound of an explosion, but it was not as loud as usual.”

“Driving against the wind, my eyes started burning and I felt I was being suffocated,” he continued. “People were running away from the site and falling on the ground. It was a cruel scene. At that point I fainted.”

He said he woke up an hour later at a clinic, after receiving injections and oxygen. “Kids were all over the floor, some dead and others struggling to breathe,” he said. “The noise of them trying to breath was loud, with foam all over their faces.”

Gas Attack Is Said to Kill Dozens in Syria

A Syrian activist said:

"Timing is everything. Last week, the regime launched a few small chlorine attacks in northern Hama and Damascus suburbs. No one cared. Then the regime launched another small chemical attack in southern Idlib in al-Habit. Again no one cared. Now the regime launches what appears to be nerve agent and kills 58 civilians, assuming that they can get away with it.

Recall in 2013, the same thing happened. Multiple small chemical attacks which evoked no response, followed by a massacre in Damascus killing over 1400 people in one gas attack. Recall also President Obama celebrated the "deal" made after the "red line" was crossed with the 2013 sarin gas attack; Obama claimed all of Assad's chemical weapons were removed from Syria as part of the deal. At the time, we warned that Assad would cheat and keep some stockpiles hidden from inspectors.

Now let's see how President Trump handles this."

I predict it'll be more of the same, just like the rest of Trump's policy in Syria. He's following Obama, except is even more ruthless, and has an openly friendly relationship with Putin. The White House has already condemned this attack, just like Obama did. A specious opposition to Assad, but practically against the rebels. Both administrations only ever intentionally attacked the rebels, never Assad or any of his allies.

 

[Solomons Porch]

Thank you for sharing this information. I cannot do much but I can pray and I believe in the power of prayer. This is beyond sad.

 

[Rion]

Didn't the UN conclude that the rebels were the ones who did the last attack?

UN has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas

Syrian rebels used Sarin nerve gas, not Assad’s regime: U.N. official

UN accuses Syrian rebels of chemical weapons use

UN's Del Ponte says evidence Syria rebels 'used sarin' - BBC News

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Didn't the UN conclude that the rebels were the ones who did the last attack?

UN has testimony that Syrian rebels used sarin gas

Syrian rebels used Sarin nerve gas, not Assad’s regime: U.N. official

UN accuses Syrian rebels of chemical weapons use

UN's Del Ponte says evidence Syria rebels 'used sarin' - BBC News

Not the UN but certain officials in it. Why would the rebels use sarin on their own people? Like on their own families? In rebel-held areas? It's insulting to the dead to claim it was done other than by Assad's regime/allies. It's as ridiculous as the theory that the rebels bomb their own hospitals (instead of it being the regime).

"Taken cumulatively, all these points add up to a very high degree of improbability. Isn't it more probable that the Sarin came from the people who confessed to having a Sarin factory, fired from areas controlled by the government 2km away from the impact sites, in munitions the government had been using since 2012?"

It's clear that Turkey was not involved in the chemical attack on Syria

"Then there is the quantity of sarin gas required for the attack. Hersh seems to start out by saying that Turkey was training the rebels to make sarin inside Syria. But the time and facilities required to make the quantity of gas used on Aug. 21 are inconceivable. Dan Kaszeta, a former U.S. Army Chemical Corps officer has calculated that the attack at Ghouta required at least a ton of sarin gas, which even in a large and well-equipped laboratory (hard to imagine in rebel-held Syria) is produced 2 gallons at a time.

Who Trusts Russian Spies on Syria? - Bloomberg View

Syria Special: Dissecting Hersh’s “Insurgents Did Chemical Weapons Attacks” — A Sequel

Brown Moses Blog: Seymour Hersh's Volcano Problem

Dan Kaszeta's Articles | Strongpoint Security Limited

Attempts to Blame the Syrian Opposition for the August 21st Sarin Attacks Continue One Year On

 

[High Fidelity]

Not the UN, certain officials in it.

Attempts to Blame the Syrian Opposition for the August 21st Sarin Attacks Continue One Year On

And why would the rebels use sarin on their own people? Like on their own families? In rebel-held areas? It's insulting to the dead to claim it was done other than by Assad's regime/allies. It's as ridiculous as the theory that the rebels bomb their own hospitals (instead of it being the regime).

Honestly it's not that unrealistic.

The more horrific the accident, the easier the sell when they go recruiting in the affected areas.

I wouldn't put it past the rebels either. A great deal of them are terrorists no better than the Assad regime.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Terrible, but what do we do? Both sides are as bad as each other unfortunately.

Rock and hard place don't quite sum it up adequately.

There is no moral equivalence between the regime and the rebels. One side, the regime, is clearly the worst in terms of the types of crimes it commits as well as how many people it commits it against. It is just as bad, if not far worse, than ISIS (being fought against by the rebels, btw) in brutality against non-combatants and far worse in quantity. Actually, there is no question it is even worse. I can give examples if you like.

Here is something I posted before:

Non-combatants have died at the hands of rebels but they were not generally deliberately targeted. And when they have been, and it was clear that any of the rebels were the culprits, the rebels have condemned it and/or taken action against the perpetrators, which is unlike what the regime or allies do.

1.) If the rebels we are referring to are religious Sunnis, then why do you think they would abandon the clear principle in Islaam of never intentionally targeting non-combatants?

2.) The majority of the country is anti-regime and Sunni. If they really wanted to, they could've inflicted a lot more damage against non-combatants. But most of those who have died at the rebels' hands have been combatants whereas most of the dead at the hands of the regime are non-combatants. So if it was an issue of firepower and not of principle, that would be reflected in the figures of the types of people dead.

3.) The rebels have had many opportunities to commit massacres, yet they generally do not. When this article was written, there were "56 major massacres displaying obvious sectarian or ethnic cleansing traits. Of these 49 were carried out by Syrian government forces or local and foreign militia allies of President Bashar al-Assad" A Damning Indictment of Syrian President Assad’s Systematic Massacres

49/56 involved the regime/allies and 4/56 involved rebels. Keep in mind most of the country is anti-regime...yet they inflicted the least damage. So the minority and its supporters have killed the vast majority of non-combatants and committed the vast majority of sectarian massacres. They have been the cause of the most death, destruction, and misery in Syria. But for some baffling reason, you continue to only care about what the rebels did.

4.) Look at the infographic from a few posts ago and direct your attention to Fateh al Sham (now disbanded and merged into another group though I think some still specifically track them or refer to them - before they were Nusra but they, too, disbanded). They are a significant fighting force and among the most sophisticated among the rebels militarily, but in 6 years, they were responsible for less than 400 non-combatants dead.

5.) Consider the following infographics. Compare those who were detained with those who were killed under torture. Assuming that those who were killed under torture are included in the figures of the first infographic, then the percentage of the detainees killed under torture is at 13.85% by the regime. It is less than 1.2% for everyone else, even ISIS. So if it was really a question of firepower, the rebels should have had percentages similar to the regime's. And generally, most of those imprisoned by the rebels are combatants whereas the regime killed a 13-year-old boy for attending a protest. Before they killed him, they smashed his knees, broke his jaw, cut off his penis, electrocuted him, and burned him with cigarettes.

As for:

Honestly it's not that unrealistic.

The more horrific the accident, the easier the sell when they go recruiting in the affected areas.

I wouldn't put it past the rebels either. A great deal of them are terrorists no better than the Assad regime.

I edited my post and included more links and excerpts. It is very unrealistic considering the rebels' record and comparing it to the regime's.

 

[Rion]

Not the UN but certain officials in it. Why would the rebels use sarin on their own people? Like on their own families? In rebel-held areas? It's insulting to the dead to claim it was done other than by Assad's regime/allies. It's as ridiculous as the theory that the rebels bomb their own hospitals (instead of it being the regime).

Accidents happen, and the rebels are not exactly humanitarians. Claiming it is an insult to the dead is just an appeal to emotion, and your source article is a tad questionable, when it seems to double-down on the White Helmets issue and then gets ripped apart by their readers in the comments.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Accidents happen, and the rebels are not exactly humanitarians. Claiming it is an insult to the dead is just an appeal to emotion, and your source article is a tad questionable, when it seems to double-down on the White Helmets issue and then gets ripped apart by their readers in the comments.

Why is my source questionable because of that article and Kremlin trolls and Assadists hating on it? There is no White Helmets issue beyond the aforementioned groups of people trying to discredit them because to do otherwise would make Assad look bad.

Furthermore, I added more links to that post. I'll add two of them here:

"Taken cumulatively, all these points add up to a very high degree of improbability. Isn't it more probable that the Sarin came from the people who confessed to having a Sarin factory, fired from areas controlled by the government 2km away from the impact sites, in munitions the government had been using since 2012?"

It's clear that Turkey was not involved in the chemical attack on Syria

"Then there is the quantity of sarin gas required for the attack. Hersh seems to start out by saying that Turkey was training the rebels to make sarin inside Syria. But the time and facilities required to make the quantity of gas used on Aug. 21 are inconceivable. Dan Kaszeta, a former U.S. Army Chemical Corps officer has calculated that the attack at Ghouta required at least a ton of sarin gas, which even in a large and well-equipped laboratory (hard to imagine in rebel-held Syria) is produced 2 gallons at a time.

Who Trusts Russian Spies on Syria? - Bloomberg View

Basically, where would the rebels get the sarin? How would they make such a large quantity required for the attack in 2013? And volcano rockets were used to disperse the gas, which only the regime was using in the conflict. And they have a sarin factory. Add all of this on top of the ridiculous theory that rebels would kill their own families in rebel-held areas (that's something the regime wouldn't have a problem doing, but not the rebels) and it makes the possibility that the rebels did this almost nil. I don't know why others are so insistent that it wasn't Assad's regime. Is it because people want to justify their preference for it? Then just say it. Don't hide behind lies to make your preference more palatable to others. Wanting Assad over the rebels will always remain disgusting and shameful no matter what.

 

[Desk trauma]

I aware of the various restrictions on the use of chemical weapons but I have to ask, how are civilian deaths from chemical weapons somehow more of an outrage than similar casualties from conventional weapons?

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

I aware of the various restrictions on the use of chemical weapons but I have to ask, how are civilian deaths from chemical weapons somehow more of an outrage than similar casualties from conventional weapons?

Here are my guesses: Because it is not just a one-time impact. The gas can remain in the vicinity for longer and chemical weapons can disperse over a larger area, making it certain that these are not precision strikes and are intended to kill whoever (we already knew Assad deliberately targets civilians anyway though). Because chemicals may cling to clothes or skin and harm those trying to treat the injured. Because many are not equipped to handle chemical weapon injuries and since there are a wide variety of them used, people don't know how to protect themselves or treat themselves. Some may head down to the basement not knowing that specific chemical weapon settles down. In cases of conventional weapons, people know the basics of seeking shelter and treatment (and have equipment for that). Furthermore, chemical weapons cause mass casualties with less effort. In 2013, Assad killed more than 1,000 people in a single sarin attack. The process of dying looks far more painful. Also, there might be long-term effects.

"biological weapons expert Dr. Kenneth Spaeth, director of the Occupational and Environmental Medicine Center at North Shore University Hospital in Manhasset, N.Y, in an interview with CBSNews.com" said,

""What the Sarin gas does, is it basically renders the enzyme ineffectual," said Spaeth. That causes acetylcholine to build up and keep jumping from one nerve to the next in a constant, unending signal. Depending on which nerves were affected and how much gas exposure there was, devastating symptoms may quickly follow.

For someone inhaling the gas, nausea, diarrhea, vomiting, seizures, muscle spasms, excessive secretions (like mucus production) and breathing problems can occur within minutes.

"You're talking about many different organ systems being affected, not just one," he said."

....Even with treatment, there may still be long-term effects for survivors of a nerve gas attack. Some of the thousands injured in a 1995 Sarin gas attack on the Tokyo subway still experience respiratory and neurological effects that linger to this day, according to Spaeth.

Chemical nerve agents: A "very toxic and horrible way to die"

The vast majority of deaths in Syria have been due to barrel bombs and cluster munitions which are also indiscriminate and should also be as condemned, especially since they are illegal as well. In fact, they should spark as much outrage as these chemical weapons. Unfortunately, they're already common for the regime to use and we must not allow it to make the usage of chemical weapons equally as common.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=634739140059387

Assad regime and it's allies have doctors confused as to which poison gas was used in cowardly attack on Khan Shaykhoon. It appears that all of Assad's chemical weapons were not destroyed in 2013 as was reported.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10158531467140370

"It's hard to think of anything else that could cause this besides exposure to a chemical agent," Elise Baker of Physicians for Human Rights says. Many dozens of people are dead in Idlib, Syria, after a suspected chemical attack today.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=933698076771700

These children can't breathe. This is the aftermath of a suspected chemical attack in Syria and it's the third one in just over a week.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

This was an attack of several phases, over the course of a week. Read/listen to what the vice president of the Syrian American Medical Society has to say. He mentions previous attacks in the past 10 days which seem to have been a precursor to the sarin attack and they were all meant to maximize injuries and casualties for the sarin attack.

"I can tell you about this attack, it didn't just happen this morning. This has been in the works for the last, at least ten days, starting with a small attack, like a trial balloon, on March 25 on one of our hospitals in Latamina, Hama, which is only 20 miles away. A barrel bomb hit the entrance of that cave hospital, with mostly chlorine, but was also mixed with another agent that we were not aware of at the time. All the staff members at the time, 25 of them, got sick. Actually, an orthopedic surgeon, Dr. Ali Narwish, died because he insisted on finishing a surgery he was performing. 2 other staff members died as well. This was the first trial and we suspected another agent but we were not sure. Then on March 30th, there were 2 simultaneous attacks with chlorine gas mixed with, what we're now highly suspecting another agent (possibly sarin or a sarin-like compound), because many of the staff members who treated the victims got sick themselves even though they were miles away from the impact in (?). We've seen clinical features that suggested nerve gas such as pinpoint pupils, convulsions, irritation, and frothing of the mucus membranes in the nose and mouth. Then what happened over the next two days, over the weekend, four of the local hospitals that were the main evacuation route for the victims were attacked by the Russians and Syrian airforce. And the largest facility in that area which is SAMS facility in Ma'arat an-Nauman....was almost destroyed completely by four air missiles on Sunday. So it looks like they've been planning this to maximize the injuries, the casualties of the civilians by depriving them of medical care. They studied attacks before and they found out where the evacuation routes are."

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1382283195166341

At least 58 people have been killed in a suspected chemical attack in Syria's Idlib province. Dr. Basel Termanini, vice-president of the Syrian American Medical Society is in touch with doctors on the ground in Syria, and tells us more of what's happening.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155390873548690

A suspected chemical attack in Idlib killed at least 72 people yesterday. These survivors were the lucky ones.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=934206760054165

A doctor in Syria tells us there's “no doubt” his patients are suffering from a chemical nerve agent.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=934125710062270

Was a deadly chemical weapon of mass destruction just deployed in Syria? UPDATE: Since this was published, some international aid agencies say the death toll has climbed to 100 people.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10155390990138690

This is the aftermath of a suspected chemical attack in Syria yesterday. At least 74 people were killed, including 11 children.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Excellent article:

"Syrian government planes carried out a dawn raid on the rebel-held town of Khan Sheikhun on Tuesday morning. Following the airstrikes, residents reported whole families found dead in their beds, with victims and injured survivors showing symptoms that match poisoning by nerve agents."

Syria chemical weapons attack: what we know about deadly air raid

Some other important excerpts (including regarding the regime's claim that a terrorist warehouse that held toxic substances was targeted, therefore, according to them, it was the rebels' weapons that caused the casualties):

Russia has denied that Syria launched a chemical weapons attack. Does their argument have any credibility?

Syria’s military has “categorically denied” responsibility for the attack. Russia, which is heavily backing the Assad government, said a Syrian government airstrike had hit a “terrorist warehouse” holding “toxic substances”.

That claim does not fit with facts on the ground, for several reasons. An airstrike on a weapons depot with high explosives would have destroyed much of the sarin immediately, and distributed any that survived over a much smaller area.

“The pattern of casualties isn’t right for the distribution of materials that you would get if you had a location with toxic materials breached by an airstrike. It’s more consistent with canisters that have distributed [chemical weapons] over a wider population,” Guthrie said.

While it is impossible to assess the exact amount of chemical agent used immediately, the extent and distribution of the casualties are consistent with the use of hundreds of kilos.

Sarin is too complicated and expensive for rebels to have manufactured themselves, and while they might potentially have obtained some supplies of stolen nerve agents or other gas, it is very unlikely to be more than a few kilos.

“If they have [sarin], it would be in minute quantities, maybe a kilo or so,” said De Bretton Gordon. The high numbers of woman and children among the casualties was not consistent with a military depot, he added.

Finally, the Syrian manufacturing process for sarin involves creating and storing two key components, both far more stable than the nerve agent itself. They are mixed to create sarin hours – or at most days – before it is used, said Dan Kaszeta, a chemical weapons expert and former officer in the US Army’s chemical corps.

So an airstrike on a storage facility would be unlikely to release sarin itself. And because one of the two components is highly flammable isopropyl alcohol, or rubbing alcohol, you would expect a fireball, which has not been observed.

...After Barack Obama publicly abandoned his “red line” on the use of chemical weapons in Syria, there has been little overt military threat to Assad for deploying powerful and once-taboo weapons against rebel-held areas.

There has been no response, other than toothless censure, to UN reports confirming use of chemical weapons by government troops.

“Chemical weapons are incredibly successful, that’s why Assad is using them,” said de Bretton Gordon. “What we need is safe zones, particularly places like Idlib, to protect civilians.”

...There is growing concern that increasing deployment of once taboo chemical weapons in the Syrian civil war, with apparent impunity, is eroding decades of work to control their manufacture and use.

“In 2016 we saw the highest frequency of use of chemical weapons since 1916,” said De Bretton Gordon.

Chemical weapons have helped Assad hold on to power during a long and brutal civil war, at the cost of immense civilian suffering. The fact that he has faced no real consequences for their use risks setting a dangerous precedent, with implications that carry far beyond Syria, weapons expert Guthrie said.

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

Similar articles in this post. This just details all of the evidence and gives translations of those on the ground:

The Khan Sheikhoun Chemical Attack, The Evidence So Far

"Colonel Hamish de Bretton-Gordon, a chemical-weapons expert, told the BBC on Wednesday that Russia's claim was "fanciful" and that it would be "unsustainable" for a nerve agent like Sarin gas to spread as far as it did as the result of a bombing."

An 'infantile argument': Experts pour cold water on Russia's 'fanciful' explanation for Syrian gas attack

and

Eliot Higgins, the founder of the online investigative network Bellingcat, has been sorting through the dozens of videos citizens and activists have been sending out recording the aftermath of the Khan Sheikhoun attack on the local civilians.

"They're convulsing, they're foaming at the mouth, they've got pinpoint pupils. That's not something you can fake," Higgins says. "It's really quite shocking footage."

"We've seen over the past four years the repeated chemical attacks, the repeated condemnations from international bodies, and nothing changes. We've seen endless chlorine attacks, we've seen sarin attacks repeatedly and as soon as it gets to the UN Security Council Russia puts its hands up and vetoes any action."

'Shocking' video shows alleged chemical attack in Syria. But will it have an impact?

 

[LoveBeingAMuslimah]

There is a video about the sarin attack but I won't embed it here due to the nudity of one of the victims (it's not sexual, obviously, but just to be on the safe side I won't post it). One of those treating this patient says to the camera: "It's a disaster, akhi. All the world is watching us killed by chemical weapons...and they are supporting Bashar! This kid is a terrorist?!"

You can search it on youtube by typing in "sarin gas attack" and finding the video by Dr Shajul Islam.

Excerpts from first video posted below:

The repeated use of chemicals as weapons in Syria is one of the most widespread cases of chemicals used as weapons in modern history

It was two years ago that President Obama told the world this would not happen: "Assad gave up his chemical weapons and that's not speculation on our part. That, in fact, has been confirmed by the organization internationally that is charged with eliminating chemical weapons." Now two years later, what has happened here has made a mockery of the President.

Weapons expert says that [Russia's defense ministry's explanation over the chemical weapons] makes no sense and they say that the evidence is overwhelming that this is the result of a Syrian government attack.

Another suspected chemical weapons attack is latest chapter in brutal Syrian conflict