Likely moving on to another Bible Study group...

[Servant68]

I might be done with this Bible Study group. I don't fit in. Every week is an in-depth theological discussion that goes way beyond my theological education. Just about everyone in it has an advanced degree and is much more spiritual than me. Every week I feel inadequate and ignorant.

This week they were talking about the attributes of God and how one of those was goodness. One of them said God always takes care of and protects his followers. I said that's obviously not true. Look at the millions of Christians slaughtered over the years. Look at the disciples that suffered horrible deaths after Jesus was crucified. How can God be good if He allows such suffering among his believers?

Of course I believe God is good and that He is truth and love and justice and that all of the suffering in this world can be explained theologically; I just don't understand it.

Of course they were very gracious and understanding and tried to explain in very learned terms how God is not concerned about our physical condition but our spiritual condition.

But now I have been outed as not a true believer because I admitted that I struggled with my faith. They talk to me differently now.

I know I am not mature in my faith. I know I need to be more spirit-filled and gracious and patient. I pray for these things every night.

Also thinking about changing churches as well. Current church has Bible-based sermons but they are uninspiring. My company rents out our conference center to a more dynamic seeker-friendly church that I resisted because I found some of their approaches too worldly and many of their members to be unrepentant sinners. I was judgmental and bitter.

I think I will humble myself and give it a try.

 

[blackribbon]

Sorry that it got that way. Sounds like they are following the way of the Pharisees.

 

[Servant68]

Sorry that it got that way. Sounds like they are following the way of the Pharisees.

Oh no, not at all. I don't want to disparage them in any way; they are a wonderful and gracious group of folks. The issue is with me and my spiritual walk.

I am just not at their level, spiritually and intellectually, and it is apparent to me every time I go. The last home group I went to at a different church had a diverse group of folks that were more at my level, but it wasn't a good fit since one of the women there took a romantic interest in me and it was not mutual, so I was uncomfortable.

Ironically, the people in my group that I feel more on par with in a theological and intellectual sense are the two single women, whom I've resisted moving forward with romantically.

 

[JAM2b]

I think I would feel the same way you do.

That whole thing about "God always protects" is absolutely not true. He often allows suffering and for bad people to do bad things to others. I wish Christians would quit saying that. It is misleading, causes confusion, and makes people doubt.

The Bible says there will be suffering and people will do bad things to each other. What it promises is that God's love endures forever and that He won't leave us in whatever we are facing.

 

[dayhiker]

Servant I think your being much more honest than your educated Christian theologians. I think they are using a false spirituality to explain away the physical creation. God created bodies we have. Jesus was born into a body and there was no shame in that. Plus the message of the resurrection is that the body is so important to God's plan is that we are to have a body for ever. So a body (not this one) is as eternal as our soul and spirit. It really is a Greek/Gnostic message that down plays the importance of our body.
I agree that God never promised that Christians wouldn't suffer. In deed as you point out almost everyone has suffered quite severely thru history be they Christian or not. The only answer I have and I think this fits the message of the Bible is that God hasn't completed our creation yet and so the suffering we God thru will result in a greater creation than God could have created any other way. That isn't saying suffering can replace the cross. Suffering and redemption are two different things.

 

[rubyinprogress]

I might be done with this Bible Study group. I don't fit in. Every week is an in-depth theological discussion that goes way beyond my theological education. Just about everyone in it has an advanced degree and is much more spiritual than me. Every week I feel inadequate and ignorant.

This week they were talking about the attributes of God and how one of those was goodness. One of them said God always takes care of and protects his followers. I said that's obviously not true. Look at the millions of Christians slaughtered over the years. Look at the disciples that suffered horrible deaths after Jesus was crucified. How can God be good if He allows such suffering among his believers?

Of course I believe God is good and that He is truth and love and justice and that all of the suffering in this world can be explained theologically; I just don't understand it.

Of course they were very gracious and understanding and tried to explain in very learned terms how God is not concerned about our physical condition but our spiritual condition.

But now I have been outed as not a true believer because I admitted that I struggled with my faith. They talk to me differently now.

I know I am not mature in my faith. I know I need to be more spirit-filled and gracious and patient. I pray for these things every night.

Also thinking about changing churches as well. Current church has Bible-based sermons but they are uninspiring. My company rents out our conference center to a more dynamic seeker-friendly church that I resisted because I found some of their approaches too worldly and many of their members to be unrepentant sinners. I was judgmental and bitter.

I think I will humble myself and give it a try.

There's no such thing as a perfect church. Go where you get fed. I avoided "seeker friendly" churches for a long time, but now I find that the messages are just so REAL and there is a lot less judgment or expectation to be the "perfect" Christian. There is a lot of sin that doesn't get addressed as directly as I might think is appropriate but I see people GROWING and gradually coming to recognize sin. I wonder how much of what we see as "unrepentant sin" (I see it too...couples not married living together and a variety of other issues) is more that the sin is just "hanging out for all to see" rather than carefully hidden. On a slight tangent...in Proverbs there is a list of the 7 sins God hates...pride is on the list...a lot of other things that churches are against didn't make the list. HMMMM. CS Lewis calls it the animal self and the diabolical self. The animal self gives into fleshly sins like glutony or sexual sin. The diabolical self (the worst of the two) is plagued by pride and self righteousness, etc.

 

[Servant68]

I've been back to the Bible study once since my original post. It's OK... My favorite couple there announced that they were leaving to go support another Bible study that was being started by a couple that my ex and I used to be friends with years ago.

It's all complicated but they were best friends with my son-in-law's parents and inexplicably stopped being friends a few years ago.

Then my daughter tells me a couple of weeks ago that the reason the one couple stopped being friends with the parents of her husband is because the wife admitted she had romantic feelings for the husband...

People are dumb...

Last time I went to church I sat behind the couple in which the wife admitted having inappropriate feelings and I remember thinking she was wearing a pretty revealing top and that it was distracting. Then I felt bad for being distracted and the whole sermon just became background noise to me internally debating who was more sinful; me for being distracted by a sexy top, or the woman for wearing such a top to church.

I decided I was more at fault for not only being distracted by it but for judging a sister in Christ for wearing it. Like I said... People are dumb.

 

[rubyinprogress]

A wise man once told me 'don't should on yourself and don't should on other people.' Sounds like you were shoulding. She shouldn't wear, I shouldn't think.... You're right, people are dumb...and funny...and complicated...and beautiful, the crown of His creation. But most of all we are LOVED by a God who knows us better than we know ourselves and still wants to be with us.

 

[dayhiker]

Servant ... sounds like what happens in small towns ... I heard that given as the reason so many people left the small town I grew up in. ... I've worked for decades now to not judge people. I'm so much more loving now that I was when I was young. I'm even thinking of starting a Christian group hoping to create a loving Christian community. Well, will see how that goes in time. There is a personal growth group that I do a lot of stuff with. One of the leaders is just starting a book discussion group on a book Judgement Detox. I don't know if that is the book name or not. Interesting.

 

[dayhiker]

Just found the book ... https://www.amazon.com/Judgment-Det...id=1522418142&sr=8-1&keywords=judgement+detox

 

[dayhiker]

Looking at the books associated with this book on amazon ... it looks like it might be along the lines of A course in Miracles. Talks I've heard that are along that line have an at least one aspect that really irritate me. Any ways I love the idea of a judgement detox ... the title fits in with verses like judge not that you be not judged.