Light, Darkness, and the Effects on Ministry

rockytopva

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I have two ministers with doctorate degrees in mind.

1. One is effective (I am thinking of TV’s Dr Bill Winston)
2. The other is not (I am thinking of last evenings camp meeting speaker)

To illustrate the effects of the ineffective minister I turn to the George Clark Rankin story...

"Grandfather was kind to me and considerate of me, yet he was strict with me. I worked along with him in the field when the weather was agreeable and when it was inclement I helped him in his hatter's shop, for the Civil War was in progress and he had returned at odd times to hatmaking. It was my business in the shop to stretch foxskins and coonskins across a wood-horse and with a knife, made for that purpose, pluck the hair from the fur. I despise the odor of foxskins and coonskins to this good day. He had me to walk two miles every Sunday to Dandridge to Church service and Sunday-school, rain or shine, wet or dry, cold or hot; yet he had fat horses standing in his stable. But he was such a blue-stocking Presbyterian that he never allowed a bridle to go on a horse's head on Sunday. The beasts had to have a day of rest. Old Doctor Minnis was the pastor, and he was the dryest and most interminable preacher I ever heard in my life. He would stand motionless and read his sermons from manuscript for one hour and a half at a time and sometimes longer. Grandfather would sit and never take his eyes off of him, except to glance at me to keep me quiet. It was torture to me." - George Clark Rankin (The Life of George Clark Rankin)

I just came from a camp meeting service in which the dryness and interminableness of the speaker basically killed any kind of spirit attempting to be resurrected. This guy was torture to listen to. He did not even call for any kind of prayer after the sermon. Not a bad man, and probably a wonderful character, just too much like the Dr Minnis just mentioned. Now to illustrate the effective spirit looked for in camp meeting I return to the George Clark Rankin story....

I passed my examinations and that year I was sent to the Wytheville Station and Circuit. That was adjoining my former charge. The circuit was a large one, comprising seventeen appointments. They were practically scattered all over the county. I preached every other day, and never less than twice and generally three times on Sunday.

I had associated with me that year a young collegemate, Rev. W. B. Stradley. He was a bright, popular fellow, and we managed to give Wytheville regular Sunday preaching. Stradley became a great preacher and died a few years ago while pastor of Trinity Church, Atlanta, Georgia. We were true yokefellows and did a great work on that charge, held fine revivals and had large ingatherings.

The famous Cripple Creek Campground was on that work. They have kept up campmeetings there for more than a hundred years. It is still the great rallying point for the Methodists of all that section. I have never heard such singing and preaching and shouting anywhere else in my life. I met the Rev. John Boring there and heard him preach. He was a well-known preacher in the conference; original, peculiar, strikingly odd, but a great revival preacher.

The rarest character I ever met in my life I met at that campmeeting in the person of Rev. Robert Sheffy, known as "Bob" Sheffy. He was recognized all over Southwest Virginia as the most eccentric preacher of that country. He was a local preacher; crude, illiterate, queer and the oddest specimen known among preachers. But he was saintly in his life, devout in his experience and a man of unbounded faith. He wandered hither and thither over that section attending meetings, holding revivals and living among the people. He was great in prayer, and Cripple Creek campground was not complete without "Bob" Sheffy. They wanted him there to pray and work in the altar.

He was wonderful with penitents. And he was great in following up the sermon with his exhortations and appeals. He would sometimes spend nearly the whole night in the straw with mourners; and now and then if the meeting lagged he would go out on the mountain and spend the entire night in prayer, and the next morning he would come rushing into the service with his face all aglow shouting at the top of his voice. And then the meeting always broke loose with a floodtide.

He could say the oddest things, hold the most unique interviews with God, break forth in the most unexpected spasms of praise, use the homeliest illustrations, do the funniest things and go through with the most grotesque performances of any man born of woman.

It was just "Bob" Sheffy, and nobody thought anything of what he did and said, except to let him have his own way and do exactly as he pleased. In anybody else it would not have been tolerated for a moment. In fact, he acted more like a crazy man than otherwise, but he was wonderful in a meeting. He would stir the people, crowd the mourner's bench with crying penitents and have genuine conversions by the score. I doubt if any man in all that conference has as many souls to his credit in the Lamb's Book of Life as old "Bob" Sheffey. - George Clark Rankin (The Life of George Clark Rankin) - OP to be continued....
 

rockytopva

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It is important, for the sake of spirituality, that we divide the man into three parts… Physical, Spiritual, and Intellectual. If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

E - Energy measured in Joules. 1000 joules = 1 BTU, which is the amount of energy required to raise temperature of one pound of water by one degree Fahrenheit. This is a unit of heat.
c - Light - c2 is the speed of light squared. Radiation is electromagnetic waves.

A warmed (E) and radiated (c2) heart is the best way of mentally understanding the ways of the intelligent designer. The fire can exist in matter, in the mind, and in the heart.

In my denomination they are recommending more education for the minister. More times than not he comes out...

Mass - Looking more like a minister
Intelligence - Wiser in the Word
Spiritually - Still ineffective and too much like the Dr Minnis just mentioned!
 
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rockytopva

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We must be careful on the presentation of the Word of God. The Bible can be taken as an all negative reading. I know too many people that if you compared the souls won to those motivated away you would likely find many motivated away but few won for Christ. I believe the presentation of our lives and ministries something most important!
 
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rockytopva

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I fail to see the point. Education for ministers is bad? Ineffective?
Education for ministers is not good when they are getting doctorate degrees yet doing very little for the kingdom of God. Education has become a cure all, yet without the Christ speaking to the hearts as the word is being presented the education is of none effect.
 
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topher694

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Education for ministers is not good when they are getting doctorate degrees yet doing very little for the kingdom of God. Education has become a cure all, yet without the Christ speaking to the hearts as the word is being presented the education is of none effect.
Well,
Education != a calling

However education in and of itself is a neutral thing. Neither good nor bad. What you used it for, and what it does to you (ie, equipping vs pride), that's what can be good or bad. As with all things like this it comes down to the heart. Peter was not educated, Paul was. Both were effective in furthering the message of Christ.

That being said I have personally experienced a degree elitism and judgment from SOME ministers with degrees towards those without.
 
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rockytopva

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I have enjoyed the readings of Catholics who have arrived at the correct understanding and experience of spirituality. Blaise Pascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and Catholic theologian who once said,

"The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of... We know the truth not only by the reason, but by the heart."
“It is the heart which perceives God and not the reason,” says Pascal

I must go along with Blaise Pascal that we need to include spirituality as well as logic in our quest in understanding the intellectual and spiritual intentions of the heavenly forces. Which includes fasting, prayer, and the ability to hear from God.
 
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GOD Shines Forth!

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I have enjoyed the readings of Catholics who have arrived at the correct understanding and experience of spirituality. Blaise Pascal was a French mathematician, physicist, inventor, writer and Catholic theologian who once said,

"The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of... We know the truth not only by the reason, but by the heart."
“It is the heart which perceives God and not the reason,” says Pascal

I must go along with Blaise Pascal that we need to include spirituality as well as logic in our quest in understanding the intellectual and spiritual intentions of the heavenly forces. Which includes fasting, prayer, and the ability to hear from God.

Pascal was brilliant in his observations and short life.
 
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